Mom leaves HCP class, takes gun to school

[TripleDigitRide]

She was busted while picking her son up from school. She claims she had just left a HCP class and didn't know she was not allowed to carry on school property.

http://www.wsmv.com/story/19929662/cookeville-mom-accused-of-having-gun-on-school-property

[daddyo]

She should get her money back.

[timcar86]

Lots of missing detail here. Was she in the car or did she walk into the school? If it was in her pocket, how did the police find out? Just seems like an odd story. I always have my gun when I pick my kids up.

TCA 39-17-1309:

© (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any firearm, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. It is not an offense under this subsection © for a nonstudent adult to possess a firearm, if the firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by the adult, or by any other person acting with the expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on school property.

Edited October 27, 2012 by timcar86

[tnhawk]

Most instructors insure that the students in their class understand they can't carry a firearm before a permit has been issued from the DPS.

[East_TN_Patriot]

The police could have verily easily told her to immediately take the firearm, secure it in her vehicle, and give her a good lesson about making dumb mistakes with no arrest necessary. I wonder if perhaps she was unable to prove that she had actually just taken a CCW class or got belligerent? Unfortunately, today's officers are not taught to use the discretion the law allows like they were in my day, which is one of the reasons I got out of the policing business.

[jhc77]

“She was quickly searched, revealing a Walther P22 handgun in her shirt pocket,â€

Read more: Herald Citizen - Mom arrested for taking gun into school

Must have been a big pocket to have a P22 in there.

Edited October 27, 2012 by JHC77

[RED333]

She should have known not to carry, DUMB A$$.

[mikegideon]

Lots of missing detail here. Was she in the car or did she walk into the school? If it was in her pocket, how did the police find out? Just seems like an odd story. I always have my gun when I pick my kids up.

TCA 39-17-1309:

© (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any firearm, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. It is not an offense under this subsection © for a nonstudent adult to possess a firearm, if the firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by the adult, or by any other person acting with the expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on school property.

It reads like she took it into the school.

[D3vo]

I don't want to light a constitutional discussion fuse because everyone has the right to a firearm. Just like my HCP class years ago there are people who don't have the smarts god gave a turnip. These are the people I beg not to engage in the defense of others. Everyone with an HCP is not like us. We are shooters. We discuss. We practice.

Edited October 27, 2012 by D3vo

[BigK]

What am I missing? If she just took the HCP class, she isn't legal to carry yet anyway. You have to go get fingerprinted, apply for permit at DMV, and wait for it to arrive in the mail, right?

Just taking the class doesn't grant you ANY rights to carry at all.

[mikegideon]

What am I missing? If she just took the HCP class, she isn't legal to carry yet anyway. You have to go get fingerprinted, apply for permit at DMV, and wait for it to arrive in the mail, right?

Just taking the class doesn't grant you ANY rights to carry at all.

Well, since the gun was unloaded, she could have been attempting to <not> carry. If I was a judge, she could easily convince me that she's more of a dumbass than a criminal. In fact, I'm already convinced.

[Jesse]

HUH? why was she searched if the gun was in her pocket? did someone see it sticking out or something?

these reports need more info.

[Pain103]

The link JHC posted says she took the class the night prior. Even worse.

[JayC]

The problem here isn't this woman, she posed no threat to anybody... It's a stupid law that does nothing to prevent crime, and only hassles otherwise law abiding citizens. The firearm wasn't even loaded, it was no more dangerous than a large paper weight.

From the news reports she probably didn't even violate the law...

First, the new article says that the building wasn't posted, as required by state law.

Second, she didn't carry a weapon with the intent to go armed, because the firearm was not loaded. (The bullets they found were in her car separate from the unloaded firearm by a great distance)

Third, give me a break, this isn't some master criminal here, who in their right mind thinks arresting and charging this woman serves the public good?

The good citizens of Putnam county should be running this officer out of town, for lack of common sense. And the rest of us should be using this to pressure the TN legislature to remove the silly no carry law for HCP holders at schools and colleges... The law only impacts otherwise well meaning law abiding citizens!

[DaveS]

The problem here isn't this woman, she posed no threat to anybody... It's a stupid law that does nothing to prevent crime, and only hassles otherwise law abiding citizens. The firearm wasn't even loaded, it was no more dangerous than a large paper weight.

From the news reports she probably didn't even violate the law...

First, the new article says that the building wasn't posted, as required by state law.

Second, she didn't carry a weapon with the intent to go armed, because the firearm was not loaded. (The bullets they found were in her car separate from the unloaded firearm by a great distance)

Third, give me a break, this isn't some master criminal here, who in their right mind thinks arresting and charging this woman serves the public good?

The good citizens of Putnam county should be running this officer out of town, for lack of common sense. And the rest of us should be using this to pressure the TN legislature to remove the silly no carry law for HCP holders at schools and colleges... The law only impacts otherwise well meaning law abiding citizens!

When does the law REQUIRE a SCHOOL to be posted? The law clearly states that you cannot carry a handgun into a school. That's posted enough in my book. She violated the law, she has to pay just like the rest of us would. Plain and simple....

"Well meaning law abiding citizens" don't break the law by carrying a handgun onto school property!

Dave S

[Oh Shoot]

When does the law REQUIRE a SCHOOL to be posted? ...

"Title 39 Criminal Offenses

Chapter 17 Offenses Against Public Health, Safety and Welfare

Part 13 Weapons

Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1309 (2012)

39-17-1309. Carrying weapons on school property.

(d) (1) Each chief administrator of a public or private school shall display in prominent locations about the school a sign, at least six inches (6'') high and fourteen inches (14'') wide, stating:

FELONY. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF SIX (6) YEARS IMPRISONMENT AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($3,000) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY.

(2) As used in this subsection (d), "prominent locations about a school" includes, but is not limited to, sports arenas, gymnasiums, stadiums and cafeterias."

- OS

[DaveS]

"Title 39 Criminal Offenses

Chapter 17 Offenses Against Public Health, Safety and Welfare

Part 13 Weapons

Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1309 (2012)

39-17-1309. Carrying weapons on school property.

(d) (1) Each chief administrator of a public or private school shall display in prominent locations about the school a sign, at least six inches (6'') high and fourteen inches (14'') wide, stating:

FELONY. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF SIX (6) YEARS IMPRISONMENT AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($3,000) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY.

(2) As used in this subsection (d), "prominent locations about a school" includes, but is not limited to, sports arenas, gymnasiums, stadiums and cafeterias."

- OS

I guess she's going to jail huh? So, even though the law says a school "SHALL BE POSTED", are you saying it's OK to carry into a school if it isn't posted, even though the law says you can't?

My daughter's high school doesn't have a sign as you describe....but I dang sure know that guns aren't legal on school property....how does that old saying go? "Ignorance of the law is no excuse? Something like that huh? She needs her HCP application pulled and sent through the shredder!

Dave S

[Oh Shoot]

.... are you saying it's OK to carry into a school if it isn't posted, even though the law says you can't?...

I didn't say anything. Only posted the statute in response to your question.

- OS

[DaveS]

I didn't say anything. Only posted the statute in response to your question.

- OS

Good deal my friend....maybe it will be an "educational" experience for her. I'd be interested to see how this plays out.

Dave S

[RED333]

In my job(repair cookong gear) I am a at a lot of schools,

everyone I have been to is posted with a sign at the driveway coming on to the grounds.

It guotes the law.

"Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1309 (2012)

39-17-1309. Carrying weapons on school property." (from OhShoot's post)

Now I leave my pistols in the work van, out of sight(loaded, yes) with the doors locked.

I have been known to go back the MAKE SURE the doors are locked.

She should have known!!!

[DaveS]

Having the gun in her pocket on Wednesday because she took the class Tuesday, warrants no pity from me!

Dave S

[Hershmeister]

What a dolt

[JayC]

When does the law REQUIRE a SCHOOL to be posted? The law clearly states that you cannot carry a handgun into a school. That's posted enough in my book. She violated the law, she has to pay just like the rest of us would. Plain and simple....

"Well meaning law abiding citizens" don't break the law by carrying a handgun onto school property!

Dave S

I'm sure somebody has beat me to it... but yes 39-17-1309 requires that the grounds be posted...

First, the law as written is BAD... We don't need it, otherwise law abiding adults should be able to carry everywhere with very few exceptions.

Second, the firearm wasn't even loaded, and therefore doesn't meet the standard of intent to go armed.

Third, the officer should have used some common sense and let her go with a warning... he should be looking for a new job today because his obvious lack of common sense.

So yeah I blame the officer for not using better common sense... the legislature for passing and refusing the repeal a law that only causes there to be great risk to children.

This woman clearly wasn't a threat... she wasn't there to commit a crime... It's very unlikely that she would have knowingly violated the law... Yet somehow it's her fault...

Dave you're a perfect example of somebody who tries to be knowledgeable about TN gun laws, and how often do you get it wrong? I can't count the number of times people have had to post a statue on here for you... Yet you're active in this community... a 'gun' guy... you can't get it right how do you expect some woman who isn't a 'gun' person to know all the firearm laws?

Here you have a mother to appears to be concerned that says the building wasn't posted and didn't know not to carry in a school... I don't think we have any reason to not believe her when she says that...

So yeah well meaning otherwise law abiding citizens carry unload guns around all the time, and it doesn't surprise me, I personally don't see any criminal behavior here... I do see a bad law that we should all be working to remove... because the only people who suffer under this law are otherwise law abiding citizens.

[mikegideon]

Good deal my friend....maybe it will be an "educational" experience for her. I'd be interested to see how this plays out.

Dave S

Oh, I'm sure they'll convince her not to do it again. Hopefully, a judge is smart enough to realize that A. she's an idiot, and B. her intent was harmless.

[mikegideon]

Third, the officer should have used some common sense and let her go with a warning...

And miss an opportunity to get on TV???