Reasonable Suspicion/Reasonable Cause

[Punisher84]

Sooo....Have we decided on something yet?

I really need to know,I have not left the house from fear of being pulled over,and not knowing what to do...

It's your call. Just don't be a dick lol

[Guest canynracer]

DaveTN made no such distinction. According to his post ANY refusal to search, ANY exercise of constitutional rights is ipso facto an act of disrespect that needs to be punished by hauling off to jail.

Ergo the police officer is now judge jury and executioner.

Sorry, I just dont see it, I saw where he presented a scenario and would excercise his discretion according to the response and attitude.....

[einnor1040]

Sooo....Have we decided on something yet?

I really need to know,I have not left the house from fear of being pulled over,and not knowing what to do...

When in doubt, draw down.

[Guest slothful1]

Sooo....Have we decided on something yet?

I really need to know,I have not left the house from fear of being pulled over,and not knowing what to do...

The safest thing is to just avoid the situation altogether. So if you see blue lights behind you, floor it.

[G27]

The safest thing is to just avoid the situation altogether. So if you see blue lights behind you, floor it.

This is the single most logical answer I've seen in this entire thread. Thank you!

[Guest canynracer]

The safest thing is to just avoid the situation altogether. So if you see blue lights behind you, floor it.

DAMMIT!!! Sweet tea out the nose on that one.....not good...

[dralarms]

DAMMIT!!! Sweet tea out the nose on that one.....not good...

Canyn,

When are you going to learn? Stop drinking while surfing.

[strickj]

Sooo,I should floor it while shooting.....right

[Guest canynracer]

Canyn,

When are you going to learn? Stop drinking while surfing.

Yeah, you would think....wasnt expecting that though....Sloth isnt usually funny...:p:p

[Guest canynracer]

Sooo,I should floor it while shooting.....right

so THATS how drive-bys got invented.....

[Guest slothful1]

Sooo,I should floor it while shooting.....right

If you do, I absolutely guarantee the cop will NOT ask if he can search your car.

[Guest rj8806]

Wow, this has turned into a cop bashing thread that I cannot stand. It seems to me that Rabbi is twisting DaveTN words around to make a point and frankly, it is not working.

DaveTN posted a "scenario" in which he finds a bag of weed or the likes and depending on the demeanor of the citizen he pulled over, that would determine his response.

How Rabbi can twist that around to infringing on his rights is beyond me and quite disgusting. Personally, If I were travelling down the road and saw Rabbi pulled over, I would pull over myself just to watch him excercise his "rights", be a dick and get hauled off. I would even go as far as to shake the hand of the arresting officer.

[Guest DrBoomBoom]

If an officer already has sufficient cause to arrest, he can use subterfuge, legally, to gain voluntary information. That's been court tested. Again, however, is there anyone here who thinks the fourth amendment is a bad idea? Then why try to teach someone to not exercise it? That's what it looks like in Dave's case. It's not cop bashing to ask police to go ahead and use subterfuge to determine the mindset of an offender, but not to use it to teach our young people that it's a bad idea to exercise your rights.

If an officer did not see anything that gave probable cause, but out of suspicion, asked to search, and the kids knew there was pot in the car, the officer would be asking them to voluntarily give up both their fourth and their fifth amendment rights. Do the kids "deserve" to be busted for the drugs? Sure they do. But they should be punished for the pot, not for sticking up for their rights. If, then, an officer sees the pot, or has some other reason for probable cause, I'd recommend they find another way to determine the attitude of a young offender, rather than their willingness to give up their rights. The natural law of unintended consequences then kicks in and you get a nation of sheeple. Hey! Come to think of it, that's already happened with our second amendment, hasn't it?

Edited June 12, 2008 by DrBoomBoom

[Guest rj8806]

....is there anyone here who thinks the fourth amendment is a bad idea? .....

I don't think anyone here thinks the 4th is a bad idea. For me personally, it's all about when the excercise it.

From my experience in being pulled over(believe me, I have a quite extensive background in it ) I have found that if you are kind, respectful and courteous to the officer, then you will be treated the same.

If you start being a smartass and spouting off rights and yada yada, then you will most likely piss off the officer and most likely end up in a mess.

[Guest CleanSeries80]

back in high school a good friend of mine was pulled over and had a bag of pot in his pocket. after a few minutes the officer asked if he could search the vehicle. David gace consent and after the search the officer told David that he really thinks he has something and if he'll just be honest that he'd let him go without consequences minus losing his bag. So he fessed up and the oh so kind officer promptly placed him in handcuffs and under arrest. yes i know this to be fact. i was there, i had to drive his car home.

[Guest DrBoomBoom]

I don't think anyone here thinks the 4th is a bad idea. For me personally, it's all about when the excercise it.

From my experience in being pulled over(believe me, I have a quite extensive background in it ) I have found that if you are kind, respectful and courteous to the officer, then you will be treated the same.

If you start being a smartass and spouting off rights and yada yada, then you will most likely piss off the officer and most likely end up in a mess.

So are you suggesting, sir, that out of fear, I should not exercise my rights? Or simply that folks should be polite? At what point would you say does exercising my rights becomes "smartass?"

[G27]

I don't think anyone here thinks the 4th is a bad idea. For me personally, it's all about when the excercise it.

From my experience in being pulled over(believe me, I have a quite extensive background in it ) I have found that if you are kind, respectful and courteous to the officer, then you will be treated the same.

If you start being a smartass and spouting off rights and yada yada, then you will most likely piss off the officer and most likely end up in a mess.

Sorry, but I've always been COMPLETELY respectful and have still dealt with both nice cops and obvious power-tripping jerks.

I will continue to be respectful, but don't expect me to help them hang me, even though I'm doing nothing wrong.

[Guest slothful1]

Sorry, but I've always been COMPLETELY respectful and have still dealt with both nice cops and obvious power-tripping jerks.

Exactly.

[mdlave]

If you start being a smartass and spouting off rights and yada yada, then you will most likely piss off the officer and most likely end up in a mess.

A continued misinterpretation (and I'm being generous to call it that) here is that anyone is suggesting that they give the officer a roadside diatribe on the Bill of Rights, start spouting off attorney connections, or instructing the officer on how to do his/her job.

In all my run-ins with the law (and they have been few, thankfully), the approach of "Yes sir/No sir/ No, I wish to maintain my privacy/Am I free to go?" has been more than effective.

The image of the irate motorist tearing up a ticket, screaming, and shaking a finger at the officer may be common on those traffic reality shows, but it is unlikely anyone in this discussion conducts themselves that way.

So let us assume a polite approach, and limit the straw men, shall we?

[Guest canynracer]

It all depends on the cicumstance at hand....we can say "I would..." or "I wouldnt...." all we want here...but each encounter is going to be different, each cop is gonna be different...each scenarion will be different....

make the judgment YOU feel is necessary during the time of the stop....

[G27]

make the judgment YOU feel is necessary during the time of the stop....

Wait, isn't there a moratorium on logical posts in this thread?

[Guest DrBoomBoom]

It all depends on the cicumstance at hand....we can say "I would..." or "I wouldnt...." all we want here...but each encounter is going to be different, each cop is gonna be different...each scenarion will be different....

make the judgment YOU feel is necessary during the time of the stop....

Quite true. But many young folks have no idea what is necessary or even legal. I worry that in the future, the fourth and fifth amendments will be infringed upon as the second amendment is currently. I applaud our law enforcement community, and understand their desire to make their jobs easier, but am concerned about the future consequences.

I've taught my now grown children to be respectful and courteous to everyone. Going through life spouting off to anyone, not just a law enforcement officer, leads to a life of constant adversity.

That's not the issue with which I'm concerned.

When the general consensus among citizens is that they should voluntarily give up their rights, then laws and regulations, which diminish and render impotent these rights, are not far behind.

Most of what I've read can be boiled down to this:

Be polite.

But many folks are mixing being polite with exercising one's rights. They are two different issues.

[Guest rj8806]

So are you suggesting, sir, that out of fear, I should not exercise my rights? Or simply that folks should be polite? At what point would you say does exercising my rights becomes "smartass?"

That is not even close to what I was saying. If you show respect you get respect. If you act like an ass, expect the same in return.

[Guest rj8806]

A continued misinterpretation (and I'm being generous to call it that) here is that anyone is suggesting that they give the officer a roadside diatribe on the Bill of Rights, start spouting off attorney connections, or instructing the officer on how to do his/her job.

In all my run-ins with the law (and they have been few, thankfully), the approach of "Yes sir/No sir/ No, I wish to maintain my privacy/Am I free to go?" has been more than effective.

The image of the irate motorist tearing up a ticket, screaming, and shaking a finger at the officer may be common on those traffic reality shows, but it is unlikely anyone in this discussion conducts themselves that way.

So let us assume a polite approach, and limit the straw men, shall we?

WTH are you talking about? I said if you show respect, you get respect. If your an ass, then expect the same. Quite simple actually.

[Guest DrBoomBoom]

That is not even close to what I was saying. If you show respect you get respect. If you act like an ass, expect the same in return.

I understood that. My point is that simply exercising one's rights is not acting "like an ass." If I say to an officer, "Am I free to go?" there is no implication of disrepect or of being a "smartass." I worry that a request like this could become generally thought of as such, and would find that to be a diminution of the letter and spirit of the fourth amendment.