Dog question

[Oh Shoot]

Back when I was a kid I was all over the neighborhood either walking or by bike, the 70s. Most people let their dogs run loose and thought nothing of it.

Yep. And most kids had their dogs running around with them in the neighborhood. I certainly did.

In the small country burb I spent most of my growing up in, all the "normal" dogs ran loose, everybody got to know who's were whose. If there was a problem dog, that's when something happened, like it being fenced in or taken away.

- OS

[Wyldk2]

Back when I was a kid I was all over the neighborhood either walking or by bike, the 70s. Most people let their dogs run loose and thought nothing of it. As kids, we knew how to deal with it: don't run, don't show fear, pick up a stick or rock, or just act like you've picked up a stick or rock.

Kids and dogs both survived.

Glad to hear you've worked it out

This before the age of lawsuits and the mommy state.

I used to live in Tullahoma, i never felt threatened by a stray dog. Most of those "owned" dogs were friendly if they got loose and had tags. There was an exception to this once that i remember. Since we lived on the edge of town( backyard bordered the city line) we had one neighbor that had a "pit-bull" or similar dog, which scared the crap out of my mom when it came up on her as she was sunning herself in the yard. I remember dad scaring it off, and calling the owner to complain. We didn't even have a fire-arm back then, only a bb gun and a slingshot. I think I was maybe 10 or 12 at the time. It happened again and mom called animal control. But what could they do when the dog would wander back over the line to home. Think the owner was renting the property behind our house and dad knew the landowner. Voiced the complaint and the Dog owner moved sometime thereafter.

But here in the county, ( even if i lived in the city) if any animal was threatening my life or the lives of my family, you betcha i would not hesitate to use deadly force to stop the animal. ( i mean animal as any animal has the ability and unpredictability of an attack.) I don't have a dog, but a cat, who knows what she is thinking while lurking in the bushes or behind the sofa.

I would hate to kill anyone's pet though.

[tennessee01tacoma]

Never once have I made a single penny working for the SPCA. And they aren't funded by the government. Judgements don't even pay the costs of running a shelter... Even with half priced vet care.

I was only posting the laws as they are written. I understand that you consider a stray as a nuisance like a coyote but according to the law it isn't.

You're right, the disposal cost are astounding… after being euthanized we dig a hole & burry them…it breaks the heart.

Again, my posts where just to to state the laws.

TNBrat Hiding in the woods…

Im honesty appreciative that you posted the link you did. It is a good education for everyone, myself included.

[DaveTN]

Never once have I made a single penny working for the SPCA.

No, but I’m sure it’s been very rewarding for you. Thank you for what you do.

I’ve watched the SPCA cops on TV and I don’t know how they can do that job. As a Police Officer I was able to help make sure violent cruel people went to prison; from what I see SPCA enforcement rarely gets to see that. It has to be hard to see a criminal be cruel to an animal and then walk free.

[TMF]

It has to be hard to see a criminal be cruel to an animal and then walk free.

I live next door to one. Of course, anyone curious as to what happens to a person when they unnecessarily attack an animal in the owner's yard can ask me about his troubles. Even it being a misdemeanor charge, it had a significant negative effect on his life... money spent on lawyers and all; plus work problems and a particularly dangerous dog owner that now has his hackles up and is waiting for him to slip up again. Yep, one little mistake like that can bring years of butt pain.

[Erik88]

So if a Fedex guy, who is technically uninvited, attempts to make a delivery, gets attacked by your dog, and kills the dog as a result, you would have no problem with said Fedex guy? if not, I think we are on the same page.

My step-dad drives for UPS. He had a coworker get attacked by a huge German Shepherd while attempting a delivery. The attack when on for quite a while, the UPS driver tried to run across a creek and the dog followed. He ended up beating the dog to death against a big tree. Smashed his head it from what I remember.

I would have tried to do the same thing. I'm not getting mauled by a dog for doing my job.

[Guest TNBrat]

No, but I’m sure it’s been very rewarding for you. Thank you for what you do.

I’ve watched the SPCA cops on TV and I don’t know how they can do that job. As a Police Officer I was able to help make sure violent cruel people went to prison; from what I see SPCA enforcement rarely gets to see that. It has to be hard to see a criminal be cruel to an animal and then walk free.

Sometimes animal abuse & crime go hand in hand, such as in dog fighting where you tend to find both gang & drug activity. We did work with the JPD helping with "attack" or fighting dogs while they were doing raids, but that is the extent of my involvement with what most people consider real crime. I chose law enforcement as a career too late in life. I've worked as a prison guard at NWTCC & then with the SPCA. I would have preferred to be a police officer, but it was too late. I did what I could do, in my way, to help. My oldest is a criminal justice major & my youngest wants to work as law enforcement in the military. Maybe by raising two daughters that want to make the world a better place by protecting the public is my contribution.

Sent from iPad in the woods.

Edited October 27, 2012 by TNBrat

[gregintenn]

So if a Fedex guy, who is technically uninvited, attempts to make a delivery, gets attacked by your dog, and kills the dog as a result, you would have no problem with said Fedex guy? if not, I think we are on the same page.

If I thought my dog would ever harm anyone, I'd shoot it myself. I do not intend to own a dangerous animal, and believe it is poor judgement for anyone else to own one.

[DaveTN]

I would have preferred to be a police officer, but it was too late. I did what I could do, in my way, to help. My oldest is a criminal justice major & my youngest wants to work as law enforcement in the military. Maybe by raising two daughters that want to make the world a better place by protecting the public is my contribution.

That’s good, but if they want to work in law enforcement tell them not to waste their time with that “Criminal Justice†non-sense; get a degree in something a law enforcement agency would want and something they could fall back on if they don't get the Law Enforcement job they want.

[Guest TNBrat]

That’s good, but if they want to work in law enforcement tell them not to waste their time with that “Criminal Justice†non-sense; get a degree in something a law enforcement agency would want and something they could fall back on if they don't get the Law Enforcement job they want.

Good advice.

She started as a Biology major then decided she wanted to work in forensics. UTM doesn't have forensics as a major so she's doing the Criminal Justice major with a minor in Psychology. Wants to finish that then go to the National Forensics Academy. Then figures if that's not enough she'll go to UT… they have a "body farm" that she wants to study at lol.

http://www.utm.edu/departments/behsci/cj_nfacp.php

The other is going into the military… They're telling her that with the ASFAB score she has she'll get to do anything she wants. I've warned her that they'll tell you what ever you need to hear to get you to sign on the dotted line.

TNBrat Hiding in the woods…

Edited October 27, 2012 by TNBrat

[deerslayer]

If I thought my dog would ever harm anyone, I'd shoot it myself. I do not intend to own a dangerous animal, and believe it is poor judgement for anyone else to own one.

The problem is that dogs that bite are owned by people who think the same way.

[Guest BungieCord]

If I thought my dog would ever harm anyone, I'd shoot it myself. I do not intend to own a dangerous animal, and believe it is poor judgement for anyone else to own one.

The problem is that dogs that bite are owned by people who think the same way.

Nobody buys a gun with the intent of having a negligent discharge. People think that their "pet" is perfectly harmless and wouldn't hurt a flea, so they let it run loose.

But there's never yet been a dog born that wouldn't become aggressive given the right stimulus.

And the most vicious dog that ever lived never bit anybody ...until the first time it did.

[Guest 270win]

I find it entertaining that so many people who would want to stand their ground with an human attacker or even desire to use deadly force against people for stealing property would want to run from a dog and hold a dog's life up to that equal with a person. Sorry a mangy stray or an agressive dog is not anywhere near that of a human's life. Anyone who thinks someone should wait to shoot until a dog poses the same level of threat to life/limb is crazy. A dog is just that a dog. It is just a critter. And when one is out of line, aggressive, running wild, someone should not have a problem with folks who don't have a problem killing them. What is the difference between the humane society killing a dog or a guy out in the country killing one with a 22? The result is the same.

[DaveTN]

I find it entertaining that so many people who would want to stand their ground with an human attacker or even desire to use deadly force against people for stealing property would want to run from a dog and hold a dog's life up to that equal with a person. Sorry a mangy stray or an agressive dog is not anywhere near that of a human's life. Anyone who thinks someone should wait to shoot until a dog poses the same level of threat to life/limb is crazy. A dog is just that a dog. It is just a critter. And when one is out of line, aggressive, running wild, someone should not have a problem with folks who don't have a problem killing them. What is the difference between the humane society killing a dog or a guy out in the country killing one with a 22? The result is the same.

I can shoot a criminal and go eat lunch; I know that. I also know that’s not normal, but killing innocent animals is not normal either.

I’m not shooting a dog unless it is attacking me, and I'm not hunting any animal for sport. If you need to put a dog down for a reason that’s one thing. If someone thinks they can kill them just because they are loose; they are wrong.

I hold my dog in a lot higher regard than many people I know; he’s part of my family. It’s why I protect him and make sure he can’t run loose.

[Makiaveli]

All this bravado about what someone will do to someone over a dog is comical. What would you do to a UPS or Fedex guy who is attempting to deliver a package you ordered and kicks your dog to avoid being bitten? You going to shoot him too? If you do anything more than cuss him out, you'll go to jail or even prison. Yes I know, Fluffy would never hurt a flea. Fluffy won't hurt YOU, but often changes personalities when a stranger comes on your property. I've witnessed it hundreds of times.

I wonder if all this rabid love for dogs translates to cats, too. I suspect otherwise.

First off, I could do plenty besides cuss. Which I would do, and do my damnedest to get him pissed enough to hit me so I could whup his ass. Next I would call the company and proceed to tell as many people as I can get on the phone what happened.

That said, my dog doesn't attack people. She may growl, at which point you better stop or back up. You continue forward and hell yea she has a right to chew on your butt without retaliation.

Second, I've taken a baseball bat to neighbor's pet dogs who were eating a cat. I didn't say chasing or harassing, basically had the cat down and chewing on it. Not sure what happened with the dogs, but I would up with a pet cat (the vet was very flexible on the bill after hearing how I acquired the cat).

[deerslayer]

First off, I could do plenty besides cuss. Which I would do, and do my damnedest to get him pissed enough to hit me so I could whup his ass. Next I would call the company and proceed to tell as many people as I can get on the phone what happened.

Oh boy. You probably need to go ahead and start working on plan B, just in case the above abortion doesn't work.

[Makiaveli]

Oh boy. You probably need to go ahead and start working on plan B, just in case the above abortion doesn't work.

Doesn't work? You mean as in they pretend to give a crap, and then do nothing? That is exactly what I expect to happen.

I think perhaps you think I am some idiot who expects the guy to magically know my dog isn't psycho? That I believe in the Tooth Fairy perhaps? I simply expect someone in a job like that to know how to act around dogs. Several times in my life I delivered pizzas and I never had what I would consider a negative encounter with a dog. Had a few that I thought might go south, but I didn't act in a way that would aggravate the situation.

Point being, if the dog is attacking you, and you didn't instigate it, then yes you have every right to defend yourself. But if the dog warns you off, and you continue to approach, then what part of you asked for it do you not get? How is that any different from me yelling I have a gun and you still kick my door in?

[Guest 270win]

TNDave,

I've never said pet dogs or cats running loose should be killed. I think some folks misunderstood me on that. The big problems I have seen are the wild mangy dogs and cats. I should have initially said Feral. That would describe the kind of dogs and cats I don't have any problem getting rid of that are not vicious/agressive, the feral ones. I would not kill someone's pet unless I thought it was say a pit bull that seemed agressive and going to hurt someone. I just don't think someone should wait until a pit bites to destroy it, for example. If one seemed like it was going to bite, I would either shoot or pepper spray it or use any other tool to stop it. I have kept many people's hunting dogs and pets and returned them the next day.

Feral dogs and cats are no different than wild hogs or coyotes in my book because they usually carry disease and get into things, just like pigs.

Edited October 29, 2012 by 270win

[deerslayer]

Doesn't work? You mean as in they pretend to give a crap, and then do nothing? That is exactly what I expect to happen.

I think perhaps you think I am some idiot who expects the guy to magically know my dog isn't psycho? That I believe in the Tooth Fairy perhaps? I simply expect someone in a job like that to know how to act around dogs. Several times in my life I delivered pizzas and I never had what I would consider a negative encounter with a dog. Had a few that I thought might go south, but I didn't act in a way that would aggravate the situation.

Point being, if the dog is attacking you, and you didn't instigate it, then yes you have every right to defend yourself. But if the dog warns you off, and you continue to approach, then what part of you asked for it do you not get? How is that any different from me yelling I have a gun and you still kick my door in?

Or doesn't work as in the driver is making his next delivery before you find all your teeth.

I used to be a driver for a major shipping company. I have dealt with every kind of dog and dog owner. Most were uneventful. Occasionally, one would have an attitude and I would simply leave, as you suggest. However, this method often results in a pissed off customer calling the company and complaining because Spot wouldn't hurt a flea, they paid good money to get it shipped 2 day, etc. and the company sends the driver right back. Combine that with the fact that drivers are pressured to get rid of the package the first day, and you might understand why a driver would try to work his way past a vicious dog. There were also times when there was no dog in sight until I made the delivery and turned to find Cujo standing between me and the truck, and he wouldn't back down. What is a driver to do then? I beat the hell out of several dogs in this situation. What would you have done?

Expecting a driver "to know how to act around dogs" is impossible because no two dogs are alike and none of them are 100% predictable. Besides, it's not the driver's obligation to read your dog's mind.

[Pat]

Well, whenever I walk around the little miniature neighborhood here, I always have a walking stick with me - not a little one, it's about five feet of solid locust or some hard wood - and I imagine in about two and a half years, I'll either replace that with perhaps my .357 or simply add it...

Not to thread-jack, but what constitutes conditions for "lawfully" shooting and killing a dog or any animal outside of it threatening you? I'm talking about causing property damage - ripping into garbage, eating or trampling crops? It'd be nice to know.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

Well, whenever I walk around the little miniature neighborhood here, I always have a walking stick with me - not a little one, it's about five feet of solid locust or some hard wood - and I imagine in about two and a half years, I'll either replace that with perhaps my .357 or simply add it...

Not to thread-jack, but what constitutes conditions for "lawfully" shooting and killing a dog or any animal outside of it threatening you? I'm talking about causing property damage - ripping into garbage, eating or trampling crops? It'd be nice to know.

Not sure what it is with domesticated animals..but I know with coons, possums and deer ..if they destroy your crops.. you can kill them....Ivam sure its the same for dogs,cats,rabbits or any other animal.

and btw.. if you have a nuisance animal..like a coon or possum..you are actually not allowed to relocate it..

[Pat]

Not sure what it is with domesticated animals..but I know with coons, possums and deer ..if they destroy your crops.. you can kill them....Ivam sure its the same for dogs,cats,rabbits or any other animal.

and btw.. if you have a nuisance animal..like a coon or possum..you are actually not allowed to relocate it..

I see... That's very good to know. I remember somewhere, I believe in New Mexico or out there somewhere, there was a case where a bear got into a person's house. The homeowner shot and killed the bear, and got arrested for it. :/ Which is downright sad. Nice to hear Tennessee isn't like that.

...Either way, my corn and beans are more important than a stinkin' deer anyhoo! Look out, Bambi.

[Guest TNBrat]

I actually have an entire book that just has the all TN animal laws in it, including the ones about where you can hitch your horse lol. Having worked as an investigator & asst director at the TN SPCA I can get the laws & statutes posted. I'll start a thread to explain & answer questions. But when I do, I'll not be interested in arguing. My point of the tread will simply to inform & educate if anyone is interested. That's why I've backed out of the conversations in this thread. Too much negativity.

TNBrat Hiding in the woods…

[Oh Shoot]

...I used to be a driver for a major shipping company. I have dealt with every kind of dog and dog owner. Most were uneventful.....

Yeah, I was FedEx Ground guy for 3 years. Dealt with beau coup dogs daily.

I'm a dawg kinda guy. Matter of fact I always had dog treats on me, spent about $30 a month on them, no kidding. The good stuff too, lotsa pupperoni cause it fit the scanner pocket on right leg well and didn't break apart. Every dog I ran into got a treat. Nice ones got several.

I had some rezzie customers who were quite regular and the dogs loved to see that ole white an green step van pull up. Had one big lab down in Wears Valley that would jump up the steps into the cab at the entrance of long gravel road and ride in all the way.

That being said, I also carried dog spray, and recall having to zap only two. One it took right out of commission but one nasty brute just stood there and took it, continued to snarl at my sound even though he couldn't see me any more! He did quit advancing on me, though. (edit to ward off animal cruelty accusations: Both appeared after I was already well into the person's yard, not present when I first exited the truck, so I was stranded in no man's land and had you been there, you'd have maced them too!)

Had one other semi-regular guy up on side of mountain I'd call so he could put his pit bull up. Anything to get a package off. FedEx Ground, you don't deliver it, you don't get paid for it.

I got bit only once in the three years. And of course it was one of those "he won't bite" ones. Pulled up to nice home in a burb, little cocker type mix gives me hell, even eats a treat and commences right back into giving me hell, owner comes around corner, I hand him package, he gives me "oh she won't bite", and as I turn to take first step back into van, SNAP, right on back of calf! Was wearing shorts and it drew blood. I give the owner The Stare and inquired if her shots were up to date. Guy said yeah, and didn't even have decency to apologize.

- OS

Edited October 30, 2012 by OhShoot

[TrickyNicky]

I think there's a lot of false bravado being thrown around in this thread.