Dog question

[Jesse]

A warning shot would make most dogs run away. If that doesnt work and he is biting one of you, i'd shoot it.

[RobertNashville]

...I had some *deleted* spray my dog on my property as they walked by and she wound up at the vet...had a conversation with them about it the next time they came by and when it was clear they couldn't grasp the concept of property laws etc, I told them the next time they sprayed my dog I would take up the legality of it with their next of kin...

The world would be a better place with more dogs and less people, especially people like these.

[RobertNashville]

A warning shot would make most dogs run away. If that doesnt work and he is biting one of you, i'd shoot it.

Actually, when bicycling, I found that a VERY authoritative "GET BACK" or "GO HOME" would at least give most dogs pause if not sent them scurrying away...at the very least it allowed a couple of extra seconds to grab my spray.

[DaveTN]

It can be lethal though, as some dogs have reactions to it (*edit* Per my vet. I am not a spray/animal expert). I had some *deleted* spray my dog on my property as they walked by and she wound up at the vet.

FTR, had a conversation with them about it the next time they came by and when it was clear they couldn't grasp the concept of property laws etc, I told them the next time they sprayed my dog I would take up the legality of it with their next of kin. Took a second for that to sink in and for some reason I haven't seen them walk in front of my place anymore.

Just curious, could your dog get to the people that were walking by or was it inside a fence?

[Guest BungieCord]

Yes, there is a state-wide leash law. But most judges hold to the precedent of "The first bite is free." That is, unless a dog previously has demonstrated aggressive tendencies, you can't hold the owner responsible if it bites someone.

I had an experience similar to DaveS's. Many dog owners are irrational and vindictive, and many judges are dog owners. The fact that you were in the right might not spare you from lawyer's fees, and possibly bonding, court costs, and fines. My recommendation is you use something other than a firearm unless you can comply with the Rule of the Three Esses without being discovered.

As an alternative, there is an OC spray meant specifically for dogs by the brand name of "Halt." You can get it for a few bucks at most bicycle shops. Like all OC sprays, you have to apply it to a mucous membrane. Fortunately, dogs have a mucous membrane right on the end of their nose. The brand name is fitting because the majority of the dogs I've used it against simply ...stopped. Instant quaalude. Of the dozens I've used it against, none every whelped in pain or showed any outward sign of discomfort and only a couple even acted like they were trying to remove something from their muzzle. And all but one dog I ever used against remembered me and didn't come back for a second dose the next time I was in the neighborhood.

[Jesse]

i forgot to mention we had a dog come in our yard and started sniffing our dogs butt and he wouldnt stop. i got my stun gun out of my truck and scared it away with just the sound. not sure how it would do against a crazy pit, but this dog ran away quickly.

[mikegideon]

The only time I've ever fired a pistol in self defense was over a dog. It was at a radio station in Alabama, and the dog was charging me on our property. I just shot the ground, maybe 10 feet in front of him. Either the bang, or all that dirt hitting him in the face changed his mind. The next round was going in him, but instead, he was on a dead run in the other direction.

[tnhawk]

When I walk my dogs I try to avoid contact with other animals. However if necessary, I would protect my dog and myself against an attack from a dangerous animal.

I'll probably get a can of Halt or other spray, as a less lethal option for protection.

[gregintenn]

The only time I've ever fired a pistol in self defense was over a dog. It was at a radio station in Alabama, and the dog was charging me on our property. I just shot the ground, maybe 10 feet in front of him. Either the bang, or all that dirt hitting him in the face changed his mind. The next round was going in him, but instead, he was on a dead run in the other direction.

That's pretty much what I did. I suppose the owner must have been there and heard the commotion, because it has been chained since then. Maybe it'll continue to be. There are small children who live across the road from it.

[Guest Gen. Patton]

It was my understanding that in the state of Tennessee a dog that is attacking, actually in the act of attacking, is considered a lethal weapon and that would justify the use of deadly force in defense of your own life or someone else that has that same right at the time who is under the same fear of death or serious bodily injury. At the end of the day, a dog owner is going to have a hard time explaining how I or anyone else going about their business as a law abiding citizen should have just LET their illegally unsecured dog bite them. I just don't think a judge would want to hear that.

[TMF]

Most dogs won't attack unless you're running away, thus feeding their prey drive. As soon as you turn and square of with them they should cease their advance. Being loud and raising your arms above your head to appear bigger will stop them. The ones that need a dose of lead are the ones that keep coming. They are the ones who will most certainly mess you up. This makes up very, very few dog personalities.

I've been chased by loose dogs all the time jogging downtown. I don't take a gun when jogging, and have always been able to stop an advance by doing what I stated above. The problem frequently was that eventually I have to start running again, which starts the whole thing over again. One particular pit followed me for several blocks before it gave up and went home. If I had my gun on me I absolutely would have shot it out of frustration, as I had no way to retreat without being attacked. So I had run-turn around-walk-run and so on. That dog had no business terrorizing the neighborhood and would have been put down anyway had it managed to bite me.

Now, if you have a dog of your own with you your actions will probably not override the aggressor dog's attack on your animal, so you can just shoot it on advance and deal with the consequences, or you can beat the crap out of it as it mauls your dog and perhaps gets a few bites on you.

No good options. I'm a dog lover and detest crappy dog owners and animal abusers, but I will put an aggressive dog down in a heartbeat if need be.

[Oh Shoot]

....No good options.

Squirt gun with half water half ammonia works a treat.

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

A warning shot would make most dogs run away. If that doesnt work and he is biting one of you, i'd shoot it.

And a warning shot will likely get you tossed in jail unless you are on you own property and you are allowed to shoot on your property. If you are justified in shooting a warning shot you are justified in shooting a fatal shot. That is regardless of whether you are "warning" a dog or a person.

Shooting a dog in self defense has the same rules as shooting a person in self defense. You would not fire a warning shot to defend against a deadly situation with a person so you should not do the same for a dog. But if you fire a shot as a warning you are going to be in trouble.

I know I would personally NEVER fire anything as a warning.

Dolomite

[TMF]

Squirt gun with half water half ammonia works a treat.

- OS

That'll work just as dog spray will, but they gotta get close. There are some dogs that won't care though.

[Lumber_Jack]

Squirt gun with half water half ammonia works a treat.

- OS

Yep I've known several road cyclists to use this formula. Works good for the "I must chase that fast moving object" mentality that affects most cyclists. don't know how well it works against true aggression.

[Guest Gen. Patton]

And a warning shot will likely get you tossed in jail unless you are on you own property and you are allowed to shoot on your property. If you are justified in shooting a warning shot you are justified in shooting a fatal shot. That is regardless of whether you are "warning" a dog or a person.

Shooting a dog in self defense has the same rules as shooting a person in self defense. You would not fire a warning shot to defend against a deadly situation with a person so you should not do the same for a dog. But if you fire a shot as a warning you are going to be in trouble.

I know I would personally NEVER fire anything as a warning.

Dolomite

That's right. I don't know about in other places but round these parts that'll at least get you a citation for disturbing the peace and at most get you arrested for disorderly conduct, brandishing, or reckless endangerment.

[TripleDigitRide]

LEO's have been justified in shooting countless dogs at a mere bark/growl. If I felt threatened, I wouldn't wait much longer.

When I was a kid, I witnessed a medium-sized dog rip my friends scrotum almost completely off with one lunge. Any time I see a dog acting aggressively, I instantly relive that moment. That's not a chance I'm willing to take.

[gregintenn]

LEO's have been justified in shooting countless dogs at a mere bark/growl. If I felt threatened, I wouldn't wait much longer.

When I was a kid, I witnessed a medium-sized dog rip my friends scrotum almost completely off with one lunge. Any time I see a dog acting aggressively, I instantly relive that moment. That's not a chance I'm willing to take.

When I was a child, I saw a dog knock another boy down, grab him by the scruff of the neck, and commence hunching on his rear end. Every time the boy tried to get up, the dog would growl and tighten his grip on the boy's neck.

After it was over, he swore to kill any of us who told the story. My story doesn'[t hold a candle to yours, but had a much happier ending.

[mikegideon]

Squirt gun with half water half ammonia works a treat.

- OS

I'm thinking Greg was squirting something other than ammonia.

[mikegideon]

And a warning shot will likely get you tossed in jail unless you are on you own property and you are allowed to shoot on your property. If you are justified in shooting a warning shot you are justified in shooting a fatal shot. That is regardless of whether you are "warning" a dog or a person.

Shooting a dog in self defense has the same rules as shooting a person in self defense. You would not fire a warning shot to defend against a deadly situation with a person so you should not do the same for a dog. But if you fire a shot as a warning you are going to be in trouble.

I know I would personally NEVER fire anything as a warning.

Dolomite

My "warning shot" happened more than 20 years ago, before guns were evil.

[TMF]

don't know how well it works against true aggression.

For a trained animal I would say it won't work and neither will pepper spray. It is not uncommon amongst the criminal element to have dogs trained in aggression. Those folks aren't known for being the responsible type to keep their pets leashed and contained. The only thing that will stop them is death or someone that runs slower than you.

[DaveTN]

You don’t automatically get arrested for firing a “warning shotâ€. Just because many departments have policy’s against them doesn’t mean you automatically get arrested for it. If you are justified, you are fine. If I was in an area where I could do so, and had time, I wouldn’t hesitate to fire a shot into the ground in front of an attacking dog. If I have to discharge a firearm I’m staying where I am and calling the Police anyway; if they want to charge me; so be it.

[Luke E.]

I have called LE about vicious dogs. They referred me to the SPCA. They said they would not respond to a vicious dog. The recommended I kill it. So the next time I seem the dogs on my property I took some shots. Fortunately for the dogs and their owners I missed.

I spoke to the owners after their dogs had killed animals of ours. Their response, "dogs will be dogs". My response, "they won't be dogs anymore if I see them on my property again".

You have the right to protect yourself and your animals with any means needed to remove the threat.

Dolomite

I completely understand your stance. I love my dogs as much as anyone and don't think killing them should be taken lightly BUT if i feel myself or my family threatened its lights out. As far as dogs killing your livestock, i grew up on a farm and had a problem with wandering dogs killing goats and chickens. Over the years we had goats i had to kill 3 dogs (it SUCKED everytime!). I always went to the owner and told them their dog had killed 1 or more of my goats and gave the oppurtunity to keep them off my property (and let them know if they had a decent bone in them they should pay for them) But once a dog gets that livestock blood they will be back. At that point all you can do is say i'm sorry but you were warned and now i'm out another animal.

[Oh Shoot]

.... But once a dog gets that livestock blood they will be back. At that point all you can do is say i'm sorry but you were warned and now i'm out another animal.

Yep, I once lost a sweet little mutt to that. Wouldn't think she'd hurt a fly, half afraid of her own shadow, but she starting killing neighbor's chickens. Was a grand old feller named Sam, btw, kept pigs too, used to sit with him and drink moonshine. But he had to level with me about Cleo Dawg.

I tried everything, but no fence and I just wasn't gonna chain her up out in the country. I even tied the last dead chicken around her neck and locked her in the pump house for a week, was so hangdog she wouldn't even hardly eat the whole time. Seemed just fine after that, so thought I'd broken her of that. Few weeks later she just "disappeared". I never even mentioned it to Sam, but I knew. Didn't want to make it any harder on him too.

- OS

Edited October 25, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest 270win]

A dog is an animal not a person. The threshold for killing a dog is pretty low. If I feel like a dog may bite and I have my gun, he will be a dead dog. I hunt, so i have no problems killing an animal. People need to keep their dogs penned up and strays need to be gotten rid of. If I lived in the country and had aggressive or stray dogs on my property, I know a 22 would fix the problem. Thankfully, I live in town and dogs are all fenced in, so I can walk and not have to deal with dog problems. I used to shoot strays as a kid with BB and pellet guns. These were not aggressive dogs. I was always disappointed I wasn't allowed to shoot them with a 22, but parents said it was too much hassle to dispose of a dead dog. If you had to clean up the messes strays made when they got in your trash, you would want to use a 22 rifle too.

Edited October 25, 2012 by 270win