AR Question for the xPerts

[graycrait]

I have only had 3 ARs, none were or are particularly inspiring. I shot a TGO'ers pre-Freedom Group Bushmaster 20" heavy barrel A2 today. I liked shooting it better then any other I have had in my hands and I get to shoot a few, but generally would rather not. (I'm retired military but retired before M4).

I don't want to spend 2 or 3 grand on a AR. Howevever I would like to get an AR that is a shooter with a scope, so I can have some fun at 2-400 meters.

Realizing that ARs are tinker toys (modular) I wonder what barrel you experts think might give me a real kick at 400 meters with a scope. That is realising that the system is put together right with a good trigger and scope.

Suggestions for a heavy barrel?

Craig in Clarksville

[mikegideon]

I would probably just get a White Oak complete upper and be done with it. There's one in my future. Any varmint upper is probably going to do OK out to those ranges with a decent scope. My 24" Model one varmint upper does just fine at 600 yards. With that said, I'll get White Oak when I get around to it...

http://www.whiteoaka...ome.php?cat=253

Edited October 19, 2012 by mikegideon

[Lumber_Jack]

here's one in the classifieds

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/52441-24-ar15-flat-top-upper-with-free-float-handguard-bcg/page__hl__upper

[mikegideon]

here's one in the classifieds

http://www.tngunowne...page__hl__upper

That looks like a model one. You really need to know the twist rate.

[Troutburger]

I think when you compare features to the dollar the RRA Predator and Varmint series are hard to beat. They claim 3/4" MOA.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Yeah, without knowing the twist rate you might get screwed. Another concern is round counts. Not that much of a deal with this upper because it was likely used for target shooting but with any standard upper knowing the round count is a must.

I just read it, and will try to find it again, but there was a study of accuracy between new and 10,000 rounds. It even surpized me. New gave accuracy at 200 yards at under 3" for all 5 samples. When they hit 10K they did the same study and the smallest was 7" I believe and the largest was 13". They also did a velocity study and velocity dropped over 200 fps for all examples.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

I think when you compare features to the dollar the RRA Predator and Varmint series are hard to beat. They claim 3/4" MOA.

My Model One shoots under 1/2 with the right loads. I polished some 1" dots plumb off a steel plate at 400 yards (with witnesses). Still, I'll replace it with a White Oak.

[mikegideon]

Yeah, without knowing the twist rate you might get screwed. Another concern is round counts. Not that much of a deal with this upper because it was likely used for target shooting but with any standard upper knowing the round count is a must.

I just read it, and will try to find it again, but there was a study of accuracy between new and 10,000 rounds. It even surpized me. New gave accuracy at 200 yards at under 3" for all 5 samples. When they hit 10K they did the same study and the smallest was 7" I believe and the largest was 13". They also did a velocity study and velocity dropped over 200 fps for all examples.

Dolomite

I really like an 8 twist. I will let you shoot most of the heavy target bullets. None of my long range bullets will work in a 9 twist.

BTW... when I ordered my Model One, the barrel twist defaulted to 8 on the order form.

Edited October 19, 2012 by mikegideon

[Dolomite_supafly]

Here is the report I mentioned earlier:

http://www.dtic.mil/...llarms/john.ppt

It is a Power Point presentation. It was performed by the Weapons Department Ordnance Engineering Directorate, Naval Surface Warfare Center – Crane, Indiana

My numbers were a little off earlier but you can see how important round count is to accuracy. These were at 200 yards in inches.

Wpn @ 5,000 rd @ 10,000 rd

A------------8.2-------------16.1

B-----------10.2-------------9.7

C------------4.9-------------11.3

D------------9.1-------------14.4

Something else that is interesting is you loose more velocity with a clean barrel than a dirty barrel. I knew me not cleaning my guns religiously was a good thing.

Dolomite

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I have only had 3 ARs, none were or are particularly inspiring. I shot a TGO'ers pre-Freedom Group Bushmaster 20" heavy barrel A2 today. I liked shooting it better then any other I have had in my hands and I get to shoot a few, but generally would rather not. (I'm retired military but retired before M4).

I don't want to spend 2 or 3 grand on a AR. Howevever I would like to get an AR that is a shooter with a scope, so I can have some fun at 2-400 meters.

Realizing that ARs are tinker toys (modular) I wonder what barrel you experts think might give me a real kick at 400 meters with a scope. That is realising that the system is put together right with a good trigger and scope.

Suggestions for a heavy barrel?

Craig in Clarksville

Craig, I expect you're as much an expert with that gun as most anyone, with few exceptions,

but here's your barrel, when they come back in stock. http://noveskeriflew...&status=&title=

When I figure out how to sneak one of those by my wife, that's what I will get. I don't have that kind of 5.56, but that's

what I will start with on my next rifle, when they come in stock.

Gordon's going to get my stainless 6.8 barrel and upper and true that rascal for me, one of these days.

It's my best shooter. It was made by the same folks who do those barrels for Noveske, just not with Todd's

personal touch, I heard.

Edited October 19, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[mikegideon]

Craig, I expect you're as much an expert with that gun as most anyone, with few exceptions,

but here's your barrel, when they come back in stock. http://noveskeriflew...&status=&title=

When I figure out how to sneak one of those by my wife, that's what I will get. I don't have that kind of 5.56, but that's

what I will start with on my next rifle, when they come in stock.

Gordon's going to get my stainless 6.8 barrel and upper and true that rascal for me, one of these days.

It's my best shooter. It was made by the same folks who do those barrels for Noveske, just not with Todd's

personal touch, I heard.

I see a shootout coming! It may be awhile before I can pop for a White Oak too.

[trevorst]

I have a rra predator pursuit that was special ordered in 18" it shoots one ragged hole at 100m. Still not a big rra fan for other reasons, but for a complete system it's hard to beat. I have a model one spr shaw 18" it easily prints .5 moa don't care much for 1/9 twist though. Over 62gr and the groups start to open up.

The predator pursuit is 1/8 twist wilson barrel and somehow will shoot anything from 50gr to 77gr.

If I was building my own I would use a Lothar-walther barrel (gunbroker $300ish) or a ranier arms barrel.

Edited October 19, 2012 by trevorst

[graycrait]

I copied this from another site.

Ferritic Nitrocarburized finish; Commonly referred to as TeniferTM (Glock), or MeloniteTM (Springfield Armory, and others), I believe I've also sometimes heard it called "Hard Bluing". For those not familiar with the process, it is a salt bath nitride process which hardens the barrel, inside and out, to a Rockwell harness in the range of up to 70RHC+ (harder than chrome)!

I see CMMG has a WASP (CMMGs version of Melonite) 16" heavy barrel. Seems to me that the FN treatment is what I want. I am not looking for national match but I would like to hit about 1 MOA. I would like to see some 20" barrels with Ferritic Nitrocraburizing. Any suggestions?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Yeh. This guy comes to mind. I have a couple of his barrels in 6.8. Right here in TN, too. http://www.ar15perfo...ce.com/5_56_223

I don't know why I didn't think of him earlier, sorry 'bout that!

Edited October 20, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[graycrait]

http://www.ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/1679/6604

6.8 AR, I think I will wait for this barrel to be available and then put an upper together.

Craig

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Good choice. Those folks are good to go.

[Guest FIST]

http://www.ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/1679/6604

6.8 AR, I think I will wait for this barrel to be available and then put an upper together.

Craig

I was at the range last week with a buddy of mine and he was shooting a 10/22 with an 11 1/2" barrel putting them all in the same hole with the cheapest ammo he could get his hands on.

Have a good time this week Craig.

Derrick.

[Dolomite_supafly]

http://www.ar15perfo...etail/1679/6604

6.8 AR, I think I will wait for this barrel to be available and then put an upper together.

Craig

Looks like the same specs as our beloved M&P Sport except in a 20" version. Should be a great shooter and durable. The only concern I have is the 5/8-24 muzzle threads. That means you will only be able to use 30 caliber muzzle brakes. Or you could buy whatever 223 muzzle device you want and have a friend open it up and tap it 5/8-24 (hint, hint).

Dolomite