45 ACP. developing a load.

[vujade]

Hello.

I picked up my first 45 and want to reload for it! For rifle (308), I develop loads using the ladder test/OCW test using .5 first and then .2/.3 grain increments to find the more specific recipe(s) for the best accuracy.

For handguns - (.45 calls for 5.9 - 6.5 grains of Unique), .5 or even .3 grains is a whole lot more % of the total charge weight.

(.3 grains may only make up .07% of the total 42 grains of Varget but .3 grains is 5% of the total 6 grains of Unique)... do you guys go to .1 grain increments when developing a load?

I assume 25 yards to test for accuracy/groups?

What kind of groups can you expect from a handgun at 25 yards?

(while developing the load, I plan to hold the gun and rest the bottom of the magazine on a sandbag to try to get as consistent of a bench as possible)

[Dolomite_supafly]

What powder do you have?

If you don't have any I like Power Pistol. I have also used Longshot, HS-6, Clays and a few Vihtavouri powders. Clays is a very miserly powder and Power Pistol is a very robust powder at normal charge weights.

For a new shooter I always recommend a powder that has a large margin between minimum and maximum. I also recommend that the powder is a bulky powder as well so you can visually see a double charge. Some powders sill such a small amount of the case that a double charge might go unnoticed.

Dolomite

[DaveS]

Red Dot in my .45 shoots very very well!

[Caster]

THe great thing about 45 auto is, if you have a decent pistol to start with, you can swing a dead cat and hit a good load. You just about [not always] pick any load from a published book and do well. Especially if it's 230g. 45 is one of the best cartridges for new guys to load because it's a real confidence booster to see easy results.

Good luck, I like a 230g round nose plain base over 5.0g of Bullseye

[vujade]

What powder do you have?

If you don't have any I like Power Pistol. I have also used Longshot, HS-6, Clays and a few Vihtavouri powders. Clays is a very miserly powder and Power Pistol is a very robust powder at normal charge weights.

For a new shooter I always recommend a powder that has a large margin between minimum and maximum. I also recommend that the powder is a bulky powder as well so you can visually see a double charge. Some powders sill such a small amount of the case that a double charge might go unnoticed.

Dolomite

I have some left over Blue Dot that someone gave me. I also picked up some Unique today.

I'm still reading before I start loading. I did load 5 'dummy rounds'; all fed/ejected well.

[vujade]

THe great thing about 45 auto is, if you have a decent pistol to start with, you can swing a dead cat and hit a good load. You just about [not always] pick any load from a published book and do well. Especially if it's 230g. 45 is one of the best cartridges for new guys to load because it's a real confidence booster to see easy results.

Good luck, I like a 230g round nose plain base over 5.0g of Bullseye

thank you. Then I'm glad I'm I got the 230 grains.

[dlm37015]

i use 3 powders in 45 as of late i have been using tite group clean and cheap works good too

i also use aa 5 and nitro 100 the old nitro 100 boyh work very good

i use 200 and 230 grain cast bullets no reason to waste money on jacketed bullets with a 45 acp imo

[Curiousgb]

WST and a 200gr LSWC.

[Lumber_Jack]

I use unique 5.2 gr with 230g Hornady Jackets. That is until all the jackets are gone and then I'll be all cast boolits as well

[Jonnin]

I advise a case filling powder. .25 grains out of a 3.5 grain load of wai2hot powder is getting close to 10% variation! .25 grains of a 7 grain load of wai2wimpy powder is half the variation in every load. Of course a $$$$ scale can eliminate this issue but every measuring device has error, and that error is fixed (volume or mass in this case). Using a fatter powder always makes that error less of the total and the loads more consistent.

You can put all the shots in a 1 inch group at 25 with a .45 1911 target pistol, fired from a bench rest.

[vujade]

I advise a case filling powder. .25 grains out of a 3.5 grain load of wai2hot powder is getting close to 10% variation! .25 grains of a 7 grain load of wai2wimpy powder is half the variation in every load. Of course a $$$$ scale can eliminate this issue but every measuring device has error, and that error is fixed (volume or mass in this case). Using a fatter powder always makes that error less of the total and the loads more consistent.

You can put all the shots in a 1 inch group at 25 with a .45 1911 target pistol, fired from a bench rest.

So something like Blue Dot where it requires 10 or so grains may be a better one to start with. (vs. the 5-6 grains of unique?). then my margin of error is more forgiving.

[Jonnin]

So something like Blue Dot where it requires 10 or so grains may be a better one to start with. (vs. the 5-6 grains of unique?). then my margin of error is more forgiving.

exactly. Up to a point, of course. I personally dislike powder compression, so up to that point, fatter is better. But, fatter costs more, all powder is about the same price and using twice as much = twice the cost. Just depends on what you want. Also if the burn rate is too slow, it may perform poorly even if consistent.... just gotta pick and choose with a dash of trial and error thrown in.

[Guest Grout]

WST and a 200gr LSWC.

I like 4.5 grs of WST,200 gr SWC,1.250 long.Accurate,soft shooting.

[dlm37015]

for years i used lee dippers and unique powder

[dlmeadows]

My favorite load that Ihave found so far is a 230gr cast rn with 3.7gr of clays. In MY gun this recipe has given me very consistent FPS with fantastic accuracy

[vujade]

I made a few last night.

I'm surprised that it takes very little gunpowder (using Unique and blue dot (nope, i don't mix them, I'm making different batches to test)).

I'm only using about 1.5 of the yellow dipper sticks that are TINY compared to the 308 dippers i'm used to. (no i don't measure by just the yellow dipper. I used that to put into a 505 scale until i get my powder filler device set up. )

Edited October 19, 2012 by vujade

[vujade]

When I was a little boy I would tell my mom when she called me to go to sleep, "one more game mom!" (good ole Legend of Zelda days)

Last night, or rather this morning, I caught myself saying, "just one more case!" to my wife.

[vujade]

I took half a day off work and went to the range. 45 rounds go MUCH faster than 308. I was out wishing I had had more time to reload more last night. Anyway... I'm a bit disappointed with either my groups, my gun or my reloading. Disappointment often comes from wrong expectations so I hope to adjust that with this post.

How did I do?

This is standing, 2 hand hold and I'm don't have a lot of experience with handguns.

This is at 5 yards (15 feet), 5 rounds each group. center target is factory ammo (230 grain Federal Red box) - shy of 2 inches; that's really poor imho. Starting at the top left (5.5 grains of Unique) top right (6.1 grains of Unique). bottom left (6.4 grains of unique). bottom right. (8.8 grains of Blue dot).

This is at 10 yards (30 feet). Upper left (Factory ammo, the 5th round barely touched paper but that's almost a 4 inch group). Upper right (6.4 gr of unique) I felt myself anticipating that recoil and pulled that shot way down. bottom left is just a mix of left over blue dot, and different unique loadings where I didn't have enough for a 5 round group; shoot them pretty fast also to see if i can hit that far with some speed; happy they all hit paper though.

I've been reading about 1-2 inch groups at 25 yards! I assume that's really benched by some good shooters. I'm feeling pretty bad if even my best group (1 inch at 5 yards) would be 5 inches @ 25 yards!?!

I plan to make some loads in the 5.3 to 6.3 range and shoot for a lot more groups and try supported. i couldn't shoot supported with this range today.

Edited October 19, 2012 by vujade

[vujade]

Some general observations/comments:

All the rounds cycled. i tried the different mags and they were all flawless. The gun was buttery smooth.

There is a very very slight play (less than my px4 9mm when I used to have one) with side to side slide movement. I don't have ANY experience with 1911s but I read that the customs ones are VERY tight. There is some play with the barrel (like the bushing is a tad too large) Is that supposed to be so tight the barrel doesn't move?

The trigger has that S&W common trigger wobble. It doesn't affect the trigger pull, it just feels loose. I already have a Wilson aftermarket trigger on the way.

[Lumber_Jack]

I think the 5.5 grains of unique looked pretty good group. You also have to consider fatigue after shooting some. The best way to test accuracy of loads is with a bench rest.

As for the 1911, slide play is common, it's not ideal, but also not a death sentence. Now the fact that your barrel moves inside the bushing, makes me scratch my head. Is this when the slide is in battery? Post a close up pick of the barrel and bushing if you can. Also a pick of the rear o the slide can show slide fit.

Like this, this is my TRP

Now this is a ~$1400 1911, you can see its very snug slide to frame. It's not unusual as I said for there to be some gaps there in some models, but the barrel loose is a different story.

[Jonnin]

I took half a day off work and went to the range. 45 rounds go MUCH faster than 308. I was out wishing I had had more time to reload more last night. Anyway... I'm a bit disappointed with either my groups, my gun or my reloading. Disappointment often comes from wrong expectations so I hope to adjust that with this post.

How did I do?

This is standing, 2 hand hold and I'm don't have a lot of experience with handguns.

This is at 5 yards (15 feet), 5 rounds each group. center target is factory ammo (230 grain Federal Red box) - shy of 2 inches; that's really poor imho. Starting at the top left (5.5 grains of Unique) top right (6.1 grains of Unique). bottom left (6.4 grains of unique). bottom right. (8.8 grains of Blue dot).

This is at 10 yards (30 feet). Upper left (Factory ammo, the 5th round barely touched paper but that's almost a 4 inch group). Upper right (6.4 gr of unique) I felt myself anticipating that recoil and pulled that shot way down. bottom left is just a mix of left over blue dot, and different unique loadings where I didn't have enough for a 5 round group; shoot them pretty fast also to see if i can hit that far with some speed; happy they all hit paper though.

I've been reading about 1-2 inch groups at 25 yards! I assume that's really benched by some good shooters. I'm feeling pretty bad if even my best group (1 inch at 5 yards) would be 5 inches @ 25 yards!?!

I plan to make some loads in the 5.3 to 6.3 range and shoot for a lot more groups and try supported. i couldn't shoot supported with this range today.

its harder with iron sights. And when I said it, I meant locked down in a device, not hand held bench shooting. A device is the way to do it.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Jonnin

[vujade]

Lumber_Jack, those pics are very useful.

wow, so that's what an extra $600 will get; that's Tight.

Here are mine:

[vujade]

I should have been more specific... the barrel slightly moves when the slide is locked back. when the slide is forward (like the pic above), there is no discernible movement. It feels tight with the bushing.

There is a very slight movement (left/right) of the slide but none vertically.

I can however can tell a big difference with my pics and the one lumber_jack posted.

[vujade]

its harder with iron sights. And when I said it, I meant locked down in a device, not hand held bench shooting. A device is the way to do it.

Yes, iron sight were difficult to keep steady and I can tell after a few mags it was harder to keep steady. The 45 kicked less than I thought but the gun is heavy.

I'm going to make those loads and then try it benched next time.

[vujade]

I checked the trigger pull; it's a smooth/creep free trigger so I thought it would be much less. I was surprised to find it at 5 pounds.

Edited October 20, 2012 by vujade