Ammo Shrapnel?

[S&WForty]

The last few times I've gone shooting, I've found pieces of shrapnel on my targets. Most are much smaller than this, and I usually just see evidence where a piece cut a slit in my target paper rather than lodging into the paper. Is this considered normal and acceptable? If the frequency increased, would this have the potential of hurting the barrel? I've seen it with Federal Champion FMJ 180 gr .40S&W.

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[peejman]

Is that a piece of the copper jacket?

[S&WForty]

Okay, I bet that's it. I have never seen this with WWB ammo.

[Jonnin]

To break up like that, your bullets have to be hitting something substantial.... the target frame, the ground in front of the target, or shooting at non-paper targets, or something ???? It could be hitting a backstop and ricochet back as well (??).

If that is happening from shooting straight into paper with a distant or soft backstop, then something odd is going on... paper should not be enough to deform a jacket, let alone frag a bullet.

Anyway, normal depends on what you are actually doing, its pretty normal for a hard backstop to fragment a bullet and bounch frags around. You should, by the way, not shoot handguns at hard targets that are closer than 10 yards for this reason!!!

Edited October 16, 2012 by Jonnin

[chances R]

Expected shooting steel plates or hitting other steel, rocks, etc. Have heard several 'zingers' at IDPA matches, and have seen shrapnel/jackets laying around at the shooting line many times. An excellent example of why EVERYONE on a live range should wear eye protection.

[S&WForty]

Here is the target sheet. The prior photo was a closeup of this one's upper left corner. It was 50 rds shot at 3.5 yds to the center of the target.

The backdrop was many yards further back.

[peejman]

Indoor, outdoor, or backyard range? What kind of back stop?

If the jacket is separating from the bullet before the bullet hits anything, I'd call that defective ammo and send it back. Thinking about that a bit... that can't be what's happening. If the jacket is separating in-flight, the rotation of the bullet would fling it out to the side. If it did continue forward, it'd have enough energy to punch through the paper and you'd see multiple holes per shot. It must be hitting something in the backstop and fragmenting.

[S&WForty]

Hmmm. Indoor range. The target was clipped to a used piece of cardboard that is suspended from PVC pipe that hangs from the tract that carries the target back and forth. I never hit any of that setup. (no quick drills - just slow and deliberate shots)

The back wall was probably 25-30 yds behind the target.

[Jonnin]

its possible to be off the backstop but that is quite a distance for it. Possibly from another shooter who hit something??

It also looks like a JHP not a FMJ. But its hard to guess.

My wife got hit by most of a .45 a couple of months ago -- guy shot the target frame and it came back to her lane hit in the hip. It did not have any energy by then, it did not even bruise her thru her jeans, thankfully. The range took steps to make the target frame much more difficult to hit. At a friend's outdoor range, I stoopidly hit a steel with a 454 (at 20+ yards) and a frag cut a guy on the shoulder, not serious but would have done a number on an eye (we stopped hitting steel with big stuff, I was not thinking when I did it as it was hung and had "give" to it in the swing on its chain).

So, um, be careful and try to figure this out. Tell the range officer about it --- the range folks usually want to know if metal is flying back at the shooters hard enough to punch paper at a couple of yards from the firing lane...!!!

[S&WForty]

Good grief. Scary stuff.

I was the only one on the range that day. It was definitely FMJ.

I've seen smaller pieces lodged in my targets and slits in the target where the metal passed through. I'll dig them out and take more photos.

[Volzfan]

I was hit with some the last time I shot at Gun City. That will be the Last time I shot there too.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Volzfan

[RED333]

I swear it looks like the bullet is coming apart as it leaves the barrel.

I have not seen this before.

[S&WForty]

Here are more pics taken from a few target sheets. You can see where other stray pieces hit and tore the paper or left marks.

[Jonnin]

try another brand of ammo, and if that one does it too, I dunno.... I have no idea what could be wrong in a gun to cause this?!

[S&WForty]

I am pretty sure it's the ammo. It occurred with the same ammo in two different pistols.

[peejman]

That's really strange. Have the box(es) of ammo in hand and call the manufacturer. It'd be nice if you had access to ballistic gel or a big water tank so you could recover the bullets. Then you could match up the fragments and see where they're coming from.

[S&WForty]

I've still got one or two boxes of it. It will be interesting to see if they do it as well.

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[Dolomite_supafly]

Federal FMJ?

Dolomite

[S&WForty]

Federal FMJ?

Dolomite

Yep!

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[atlas3025]

I have heard of it with Federal FMJ's before.

[peejman]

I've still got one or two boxes of it. It will be interesting to see if they do it as well.

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Don't know that I'd be finding out. I'd be called Federal and asking for replacements. Bullets fragmenting in flight is very dangerous.

[S&WForty]

Don't know that I'd be finding out. I'd be called Federal and asking for replacements. Bullets fragmenting in flight is very dangerous.

Thanks for the advice. I'll contact them and see what they say.

[S&WForty]

I have heard of it with Federal FMJ's before.

I found these threads. Sounds like their "Champion" line FMJ is more of a plating.

Post #4:

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/factory-loads/74056-federal-champion-issues.html

Post #6:

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/ammo-can/191710-buyers-beware-federal-champion-fmj-fn.html

[Dolomite_supafly]

My wife had it happen on her HCP qualification. Had it not happened to her I would have never believed it.

I might need to dissect some to try to figure this out.

Dolomite

[S&WForty]

My wife had it happen on her HCP qualification. Had it not happened to her I would have never believed it.

I might need to dissect some to try to figure this out.

Dolomite

If they are plated as some say, then that may explain why they are usually a little cheaper than WWB. (By a few bucks/pack for .40 and several bucks/pack for .45.)

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