Gunsmith around Knoxville for old .22 rifles

[Guest tymekeeper]

Does anyone have some good experience with a shop in the Knoxville area that's done repair work on older rifles? Who would you recommend?

I have a fairly nice .22 Remington Special model 12CS pump, circa 1915, that has a cartridge feeding problem. Several gunsmiths (two in the Kingsport area and one locally) have tried to repair it but without success.

Thanks

[Garufa]

I'd be surprised to find one in Knoxville for something that old but you never know.

[Mike.357]

might just be time for that rifle to look nice hanging on a wall.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Bob Howard at Predator is about old enough to have bought one new . Seriously though if anyone can fix it he can. They are reasonable and work quickly.

Dolomite

[Guest tymekeeper]

Thanks Dolomite, I'll go see Bob. I still have about 500 rounds of CCI ammo for this one that I'd like to use. Or maybe that's a good reason to go find a nice Winchester .22 WRF. Anyway, thanks for the advice.

[graycrait]

tymekeeper,

Do you mean that you have some CCI .22 WRF ammo? Wow! I started looking for Remington 12CS's and found quite a few ads for sale for some pretty hefty prices. I have over 900 firearm operator's manuals and over 30 gunsmith manuals but no parts diagram or takedown and repair for a 12CS or any 12 series. There is a diagram of a 12 on Numrich, but I wonder if there was much difference between the base 12 and the 12CS other than chamber length and some other feed length changes. http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=4250

http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2009/10/remington-model-12cs.html

Does yours still have the tang rear sight?

Craig in Clarksville

[Garufa]

Bob Howard at Predator is about old enough to have bought one new . Seriously though if anyone can fix it he can. They are reasonable and work quickly.

Dolomite

That's good to know. I've never needed the services of a smith and always assumed Predator was just another black rifle/1911 type place.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Bob works on anything under the sun. He has worked on the cheapest guns as well as high end Krieghoffs.

Funny story about the Krieghoff, he installed a picatinny rail on a double rifle so the owner could use it on his African hunts. They sent a picture to Krieghoff and got cussed out for it.

Dolomite

[Garufa]

Funny story about the Krieghoff, he installed a picatinny rail on a double rifle so the owner could use it on his African hunts. They sent a picture to Krieghoff and got cussed out for it.

Just because you can do something does mean you should.

[Guest tymekeeper]

Graycrait,

Yes, CCI produces a batch of the .22 WRF every so often and I bought a brick last spring, I believe from Midway in Columbia, MO.

Unfortunately my rifle does not have that tang-mounted peep sight, sure wish it did. My Grand-dad taught us to shoot with this old gun and I want to do the same with my grandchildren.

I did find one pretty good article in my research on this rifle and it's attached below for those interested. The article has some great pics too, but for some reason they didn't show up below.

Remington Model 12 Pump .22 Rifle

Shown here is the standard model 12 with octagon barrel

This firearm was introduced in 1909 & discontinued in 1936

Originally this model was designated "The New 22 Repeater" & did not have an actual model number assigned. Most people simply refer to this gun as the model 12, and do not add the sub model letter suffix code, which basically designates the barrel length & caliber variations

Under s/n 650,000 +-

In addition to model variation letters, there were different grades of high grade versions relating to engraving & wood quality in A,B,C, & D, which creates some confusion as to relationship to the versions.

Model 12A is 22 S, L, and LR with a 22" round barrel, using a single magazine band & had a straight grip on the buttstock.

Model 12B is 22 short with a 24" octagon barrel, & has (2) magazine bands. Usually had a pistol grip buttstock.

Model 12C is 22 S, L, LR with a 24" octagon barrel, & has (2) magazine bands. Usually had a pistol grip buttstock.

Model 12C NRA is 22 S, L, LR 24" octagon barrel, & has (2) magazine bands. Always had a pistol grip buttstock. (Limited production)

Model 12CS is 22 Remington Special 24" octagon barrel, & has (2) magazine bands. It usually had a straight grip buttstock.

Firing Pin (#220) is flat

Ejector Spring (#36) is a flat "Vee" screwed into the upper TG from the rear.

Cartridge Stop (#15) has round body

Carrier (2 types)

Early style carrier has no slot cuts visible on RH side when assembled in TG & will have a lightening

relief on LH side.

Later style carrier has milled dog relief cuts visible on RH side when assembled in the TG.

Action Bar has differences for different cartridges lengths & carrier dogs.

Action Bar Plunger (#2), which is the round plunger in the action bar immediately behind the forearm , &

is used for disassembly ^ removal of breech bolt from receiver.

Carrier Dog (2 types) held in by cross pin & lays at a downward rear angle.

Early one has a double angled Ell forming the dog at rear tail

Later ones has a single angled Ell to form the dog, straight when viewed from the side.

Breech Bolt (#407) has a square shoulder milled off. 140 lower than the body approx. 3/4" behind the lug.

Locking lug is small squared, narrowed on sides. Approx 7/32" (.225") front to rear, & 13/32" (.395") wide.

Trigger Guard is a straight lower tang

Cartridge Retainer (#57) is a (2 1/4") long thin tailed spring

Forearm Screws have 2 variations. The early forearms utilized a simple round headed screw to retain the wood to the metal action bar. Later & we have not been able to come up with any exact serial numbers as yet, but the new screws have 4 scallops on the edges, & utilize a small retainer or lock screw to keep the screw from loosening. The early plain screws have a part number of #27, while the scalloped use #27S.

Magazine Outer Tube has been made in 2 or possibly 3 different lengths. The round barrel used a shorter tube than the octagon barreled guns. Also in the many years these guns have been in existence, the outer tubes may have been changed, even to a 121 type, thereby requiring matching inner tubes.

Inner Magazine Assemblies will match the outer tube lengths.

Over 650,000 +- to 700,000 +-

These guns are essentially the same as the early guns with the following exceptions

Firing Pin (#149) is round & is the same as found in the model 121. With possibly the exception of the 12CS which we have seen use the older #220 flat firing pin at s/n 805, 000 as this caliber was not that common & it possibly took longer to use up the existing 22 Remington Special breech blocks.

Ejector (#??) is a coil spring loaded, round plunger type, encapsulated in a case that is held in place in the TG by the stock, when assembled.

Cartridge Stop (#215) has a flat square body that rides in a matching groove in action bar, & is the same as the model 121.

Carrier is the same as the previous later style

Carrier Dog (#412) is a round short plunger held in by the spring

Carrier Dog Spring (#19640) is flat & held in by a screw (#121)

Breech Bolt (#507?) & Locking lug is the same size as the early version but has a ribbed tail approx 1/4" wide extending almost to the rear of the bolt.

Action Bar Plunger These have none

Receiver had changes to accommodate new type carrier dog & bolt. Relief cut in top of receiver at the rear to accommodate the 1/4" tail of the breech bolt. And there is a milled slot on RH inside below the ejection port.

Trigger Guard has visible changes for the new style coil spring ejector case, & a milled out circular section forward & below of the hammer bushing hole (TD) & is about equal in length as the hole, to clear the carrier dog.

Trigger Guard still has a straight lower tang

Cartridge Retainer (#257) is a (1 1/2") long with a angled bullet guide leading into the chamber & is the same as used on the model 121.

Forearm Screws have 2 variations. The early forearms utilized a simple round headed screw to retain the wood to the metal action bar. Later, and we have not been able to come up with any exact serial numbers as yet, but the new screws have 4 scallops on the edges. They utilize a small retainer or lock screw to keep the screw from loosening. The early plain screws have a part number of #27, while the scalloped use #27S.

Here is shown the model 12C NRA version with target sights

Over 700,000 +- to 840,000 +-

"Late Transition Guns" The following is apparently the only change made.

Ejector Plunger Case is screwed in from the front behind the hammer with one screw on top center of TG unit.

Model 12, 22 Remington Special (same cartridge as the "Winchester" 22 WRF )

The 12S: straight grip, hard rubber butt-plate, round barrel

The 12CS: pistol grip steel crescent butt-plate, octagon barrel

All the above 22 RF changes apply to the 22 Special guns, except for the following.

Barrel bore diameter is larger by about .002

Breech block (#607) has larger cuts to accommodate the larger & thicker rim of the cartridge.

Action bar (#) has no cartridge stop & has a larger & longer recess for the cartridge to pass upwards into the chamber.

Magazine Inner Tube is a larger inside diameter, while maintaining the same outside dia. Some 22 Special tubes have a grooved "Vee" ring in the knurled magazine plug.

Carrier (#) is flat on RH side with a small half moon notch in front of the hammer bushing visible on RH side when assembled in TG.

Cartridge Retainer (#91) is basically the same (2 1/4") configuration as the early 22 RF (#57) except it is made of 2 parts riveted together, one being thinner sheet steel with “wings†protruding slightly on both sides

Forearm Screws again have more 2 variations. The early 121 forearms utilized the scalloped type screw of the model 12, but longer to accommodate the thicker forearm. Later & again we have not been able to come up with any exact serial numbers. The later ones used a large plain headed screw that utilized a castilated lock washer under the head. The old part number of #327 was for the scalloped screw (which used the same lock screw #112 as the model 12. The later larger head number #18591 was used.

Location & installation of the cartridge retainer. These retainers lay between the barrel & receiver. They guide the bullet nose from the magazine up & into the chamber of the firearm.

Remove the forearm screws. The model 12s have a small button on the bottom of the action slide metal behind the wood forearm. This is a stop button & needs to be pushed in which then allows the action slide & the magazine tube to be retracted far enough to disconnect the breechbolt from the action bar move the forearm slightly forward disconnecting the action bar from the breechbolt. Remove it. Now remove the forearm screws, & withdraw the action bar/magazine tube unit out the rear of the receiver. The retainer lays up against the barrel & is secured by it's notch that goes over the front of the receiver that is protruding downward & when the action bar unit is removed the retainer will fall out & you may not realize where it came from.

In reassembly, have the rifle upside down & place the retainer as shown in the LH photo below. There is a slight shoulder of material of the receiver on the underside of the barrel that the retainer straddles & keeps it in place front/rear. The magazine tube & action bar need to be inserted into the receiver from the rear. The action bar has a shallow groove in it that accepts the retainer in this position. Place the forearm in position & slide this metal forward, the tube goes thru the forearm & into the magazine ring. Push the action bar/magazine tube forward aligning this previous mentioned slot with the retainer. As you slide everything forward the action bar metal will secure the retainer. Replace the forearm screws.

Now to install the breechblock, with the forearm pushed forward, (while still upside down) you will need to place the breechblock into the receiver whereby the forward section, (locking block) is inserted into place with this locking block area resting into the milled out recess of the rear of the receiver. This breechblock will now be about 3/16" farther rearward than it normally would be when operating the firearm. Now if your model has the small button on the bottom of the action slide metal behind the wood forearm, push it in and while holding it in push the forearm & magazine tube unit rearward, allowing the action bar to go rearward until the wood bumps the front of the receiver. This connects the action bar into the breechblock. Roll the firearm over to the upright position & push the forearm forward. This small button will now pop out & will not allow the forearm unit to be moved this far rearward & will retain the breechblock. You can now reinstall the buttstock/trigger section & the firearm is ready to function.

Here the model 12 retainer is shown in place before sliding in action slide from rear

Retainer is shown in a flat position

Retainer shown in position between barrel and action slide

The model 121 bullet guide is assembled in basically the same manner as the model 12 shown above, except it will not have the small retainer button in the action bar.

Remington model 12 & 121 bullet guides

The Model 121 is a whole different serial number range. Basically it is the same mechanically as the late model 12s over s/n 700,000

This gun is essentially a spruced up late model 12 utilizing a 24†round barrel, a larger longer fatter forearm & a pistol grip buttstock.

Magazine Outer Tube and corresponding inner tube is longer

[graycrait]

tymekeeper,

Keep slugging away, but keep rimfirecentral.com in mind. I think someone there will eventually be able to help you.

Craig in Clarksville