Question about DUI Conviction and HCP

[pegasusrider]

The qualifications on the TN state website state:

"The applicant has not been convicted of the offense of driving under the influence of an intoxicant in this or any other State two (2) or more times within ten (10) years from the date of application and that none of such convictions has occurred within five (5) years from the date of application or renewal. "

Is this interpetted that you can't have any DUI convictions in the past 5 years or that you are allowed one conviction in the past 5 years?

[Caster]

I don't know but it SHOULD be that you can't have any period. A DUI is a sign of extremely poor judgment. Do you really want someone like that toting a gun around? I sure as heck don't.

[Garufa]

People do make mistakes but that does not mean they should be banned for life from something, at least where DUI's are concerned.

That kind of argument implies that people who drink should not even be allowed to own guns.

I interpret the law just as it states...no permit within 5 years of a conviction. Maybe one of the local lawyers will contribute.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Garufa

[pegasusrider]

Garufa, that is what I am hoping, someone will clarify that. We have a "problem" in our neighborhood with a HCP issued earlier this year and today I went to the courthouse and found a DUI conviction in 2009. The local law enforcement doesn't have a clue or seem very intent on finding out if the guy is legal or not.

[JayC]

Garufa, that is what I am hoping, someone will clarify that. We have a "problem" in our neighborhood with a HCP issued earlier this year and today I went to the courthouse and found a DUI conviction in 2009. The local law enforcement doesn't have a clue or seem very intent on finding out if the guy is legal or not.

If you found the DUI conviction then one would assume TDOS did as well (otherwise why waste all of that money on the 'background' checks their performing - oh wait that is right TDOS HCP process is make work). Either way, the only people who can take away this guys HCP is TDOS, your local police department can't do anything about his HCP even if they were interested.

So sending TDOS a copy of the DUI conviction is about the only thing you can do.

[pegasusrider]

Just received a call from a friend and he told me look at TCA 39-17-1351

(11) That the applicant has not been convicted of the offense of driving under the influence of an intoxicant in this or any other state two (2) or more times within ten (10) years from the date of the application and that none of the convictions has occurred within five (5) years from the date of application or renewal;

Looks like someone made an error on the website.

[Garufa]

That says the exact same thing. One version is just dumbed down by replacing "such" with "the".

[personDJ]

If they didn't know. they sure may know now.

[red dirt]

A bit off topic but once while entering Canada I was asked if I had ever had a DUI, it appears they can deny entry based on that.

Edited October 12, 2012 by red dirt

[Caster]

People do make mistakes but that does not mean they should be banned for life from something, at least where DUI's are concerned.

That kind of argument implies that people who drink should not even be allowed to own guns.

No it does not. It implies no such thing.

People make mistakes? Yeah, stupid people make the mistake of drinking and driving. There's no mystery to alcohol. It's no surprise what happens when you consume it. There's no ignorance of its effect amongst human beings. If you're stupid enough to and reckless enough to endanger other peoples lives by driving drunk, personally Id like to see them be charged with attempted murder and any fatality from a crash should carry charges of premeditated murder.

Thinking its "just another mistake" that people make is what's wrong with people in this country. No one wants to take responsibility for their actions. It's pathetic.

I drink like a fish.....AND I STAY HOME WHEN I DO. Period. No exceptions.

[midtennchip]

The interpretation is that the applicant can be denied if he (or she) has BOTH (1) two or more DUIs in 10 years AND (2) one of them within the last 5 years. So, one DUI will not cause a denial. More than two DUIs in last 10 years will not cause a denial if they are all at least 5 years old.

[red dirt]

Caster I agree, what worries me more is "armed drunks" but again I'm off topic.

Edited October 12, 2012 by red dirt

[Oh Shoot]

.... So, one DUI will not cause a denial. ...

Since any Class A 'meanor also suspends an HCP for duration of sentence, which includes any probation as I understand it, any DUI within the last year would prevent it, would it not?

Or is that an unintended loophole in the regs? That a current HCP holder would lose his permit, but a new applicant would not be denied?

- OS

Edited October 12, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest Grout]

I worked with a guy who had a DUI around 3 years prior to applying for his permit,he got it.

[DaveTN]

Is the “problem†his drinking?

If the concern is him drinking and carrying, call the law when he is doing it. Drunks with guns don’t the protections drunks driving cars do.

Maybe he learned his lesson on his first DUI and deserves to be left alone. Since you are saying this is a neighborhood “problem†I have to assume you see him drunk. Call the cops when he’s driving drunk and that will also take care of the problem of the HCP.

[midtennchip]

Since any Class A 'meanor also suspends an HCP for duration of sentence, which includes any probation as I understand it, any DUI within the last year would prevent it, would it not?

Or is that an unintended loophole in the regs? That a current HCP holder would lose his permit, but a new applicant would not be denied?

- OS

It does seem odd, but I believe a person who obtained the permit under those circumstances would have to immediately surrender the permit to the court.

[JayC]

As I read the law yes.... A non-permit holder could be convicted of a DUI and the very next day apply for a permit and the state would be required to issue the permit.

It is a double standard.

Since any Class A 'meanor also suspends an HCP for duration of sentence, which includes any probation as I understand it, any DUI within the last year would prevent it, would it not?

Or is that an unintended loophole in the regs? That a current HCP holder would lose his permit, but a new applicant would not be denied?

- OS

[pegasusrider]

Is the “problem†his drinking?

If the concern is him drinking and carrying, call the law when he is doing it. Drunks with guns don’t the protections drunks driving cars do.

Maybe he learned his lesson on his first DUI and deserves to be left alone. Since you are saying this is a neighborhood “problem†I have to assume you see him drunk. Call the cops when he’s driving drunk and that will also take care of the problem of the HCP.

Drunk, disorderly, and we think also drug involvement. Unfortunately we live in a rural area where law enforcement is stretched thin and when this guy hits the road it is amost impossible to guess where he is going. I'll pursue other avenues.

[Seabeejason]

The interpretation is that the applicant can be denied if he (or she) has BOTH (1) two or more DUIs in 10 years AND (2) one of them within the last 5 years. So, one DUI will not cause a denial. More than two DUIs in last 10 years will not cause a denial if they are all at least 5 years old.

This is absolutely correct. It strictly states that if you got two of them in the past 10 years and at least one of them fell within the last 5 years you will be denied. One DUI/DWI will not cause you to be denied for an HCP unless it was a misdemeanor that happened recently.

No it does not. It implies no such thing.

People make mistakes? Yeah, stupid people make the mistake of drinking and driving. There's no mystery to alcohol. It's no surprise what happens when you consume it. There's no ignorance of its effect amongst human beings. If you're stupid enough to and reckless enough to endanger other peoples lives by driving drunk, personally Id like to see them be charged with attempted murder and any fatality from a crash should carry charges of premeditated murder.

Thinking its "just another mistake" that people make is what's wrong with people in this country. No one wants to take responsibility for their actions. It's pathetic.

I drink like a fish.....AND I STAY HOME WHEN I DO. Period. No exceptions.

Regardless of your opinion, yes people do make mistakes. So by your calculations someone should have their life ruined because of a mistake they made earlier in life? Drunk driving does kill lots of people every year. You are right about that. I would love to see drinking and driving eliminated. But putting more people behind bars for life for just drinking and driving (and nothing else) will not solve a damn thing. Furthermore, there have been plenty of people put in prison for getting behind the wheel drunk and hurting or killing someone. There is no leniency granted to those people. Others are lucky and have a second chance to learn a lesson and not repeat the mistake. Sometimes they do it again and sometimes they quit drinking altogether. I for one, am one of those people. I received a DWI in 2005 right after I got out of the military. I went to jail, served 40 hours of community service, went to several classes, went on 2 years probation, and paid out about $7000.00 by the time it was said and done. A couple years after that I went on to get married, have a child, serve 7 more years in the reserves, and now have a successful career. I no longer drink alcohol whatsoever. Was it ignorant, stupid, and reckless? You damn right it was. But I learned from the experience and went on to become a productive member of society.

If it were up to you I would be rotting in a prison cell. Sorry, but I do not share your sentiments on this. I took responsibility for this by taking the punishment dished out by the judge and not drinking and driving again. There are lots of people just like me out there. People make mistakes, YOU make mistakes. This world is not perfect.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Seabeejason

[Caster]

You pick up local paper and start reading the section on who went to jail for what.

"John Smith, 4th DUI reduced to first offense with fine"

I see it all the time. An entire industry of lawyers has been built on defending DUI convictions.

Tolerance of this sort of behavior is the reason why it continues. Nowhere on earth, no time in history have there every been a people so willing and eager to support wrong doing as the people in this once great country.

Yeah, I've made mistakes. Getting hammered and driving was never one of them. Doing pretty much anything that endangered the life of anyone other than myself is not one of them. I've been so stoned and/or drunk that I didn't k ow whether to scratch my watch or wind my butt, but I still knew to never drive, or handle a weapon.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Caster

[Seabeejason]

You pick up local paper and start reading the section on who went to jail for what.

"John Smith, 4th DUI reduced to first offense with fine"

I see it all the time. An entire industry of lawyers has been built on defending DUI convictions.

Tolerance of this sort of behavior is the reason why it continues. Nowhere on earth, no time in history have there every been a people so willing and eager to support wrong doing as the people in this once great country.

Yeah, I've made mistakes. Getting hammered and driving was never one of them. Doing pretty much anything that endangered the life of anyone other than myself is not one of them. I've been so stoned and/or drunk that I didn't k ow whether to scratch my watch or wind my butt, but I still knew to never drive, or handle a weapon.

I don't. I am willing to bet I could pick up a paper every day for the next 3 months and it would be pretty hard to find an example of this. I do see where people are charged with DUI/DWI and set free with a fine, etc. But being freed after a "4th offense" is almost unheard of. My wife's cousin is in prison right now for his 3rd offense. Before that, he was in prison for a few years for his second one. I agree that some people get out of DWI's because they can throw a wad of cash at it and hire a really good lawyer or pay off a judge. But that is common with lots of other crimes too. As the old saying goes....money talks and........

If you want to rid the world of drunk driving maybe you should just advocate outlawing alcohol. Of course, then people would just make their own. Prohibition never worked. We can both agree that banning guns will not stop gun crime, right? Gun control will not reduce gun crime, right? Well, putting people in prison for their first DUI offense will not stop drinking and driving either. People will still do it. I would even go as far as to say that putting every first time DUI offender in prison will likely create lots more criminals. Once you have a felony record you can pretty much forget getting a good job. I believe education and proper parenting is probably the key to this, but there will never be a perfect solution.

I guess we can just agree to disagree.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Seabeejason