What to do with my MAK-90 ?

[Guest Nunya]

Other than "SHOOT IT!", which I fully intend to do ASAP...

It appears I have a bit of an odd bird. Here's what I think I know.

Stamped Receiver (this means it's not super high-dollar).

Squared receiver, not angled (this means I could pick up a pistol grip set of wood fairly cheap).

Open front sight (which may mean that it's a variant of the MAK-90)

Muzzle is knurled (still trying to figure out what that means.

Please correct and inform as you see fit. I'm not sure what I have here, but I want to refinish the wood. If I don't like how that turns out, it's new wood, probably with a pistol grip in a more traditional AK74 fashion.

Anyone got any insight as to what this is and how original the setup is?

[Dolomite_supafly]

Might want to look at selling it. I do believe Norinco MAK-90's are ban compliant guns. I do know that some can bring some very high prices.

Dolomite

[graycrait]

Wish I hadn't gotten rid of mine.

[Guest Tusculum]

Yep, Hate I sold mine too. Is yours a Norinco? Id be intersted if it aint too high, Thanks, Jack

[Guest Nunya]

I do know that some can bring some very high prices.

Dolomite

I know what this means.

But, what does this mean?

Ban Compliant.

Dolomite

[Guest Nunya]

Ok. I've researched compliance and I know it has to have so many American made parts. But, how do I tell what an american made part looks like? Just look for "Made in the USA?" If anyone has a website that shows differences between imported and US made parts for the different components, that would be awesome.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Totally different than what I was talking about.

I will give a more detailed response tomorrow.

Dolomite

[Dolomite_supafly]

When this was imported it was legal without US parts. It was imported when Chinese firearms were legal to be imported. So this gun is likely imported prior to 1994. You do not need to change any parts as it was legal at the time of importation. Now if you change a single part on the gun for a US made part then yes you must follow the 922R compliance.

States like Connecticut and a few others do not allow AK style weapons or other "assault weapons" unless it was imported or made prioer to their ban. So when I say ban compliant that is what I meant. Your gun may be early enough to be legal in those states and those in those staets pay top dollar for guns that are pre ban. I know most pre 1994 AR15 stripped receivers sell at well over $500 when in any other state they will bring less than half that.

If you are on Verizon I can give you my number and I can explain.

Dolomite

[Smith]

When this was imported it was legal without US parts. It was imported when Chinese firearms were legal to be imported. So this gun is likely imported prior to 1994. You do not need to change any parts as it was legal at the time of importation. Now if you change a single part on the gun for a US made part then yes you must follow the 922R compliance.

States like Connecticut and a few others do not allow AK style weapons or other "assault weapons" unless it was imported or made prioer to their ban. So when I say ban compliant that is what I meant. Your gun may be early enough to be legal in those states and those in those staets pay top dollar for guns that are pre ban. I know most pre 1994 AR15 stripped receivers sell at well over $500 when in any other state they will bring less than half that.

If you are on Verizon I can give you my number and I can explain.

Dolomite

No, you don't have to add parts to comply with 922r. That is an importation restriction and according to the ATF and Attorney General it's unenforceable after it in country. In all the years it's been our there, there has never been a single charge citing 922r much less a case that resulted in any charge.

Very nice gun btw. Enjoy it.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I wasn't saying he has to add parts to be 922r compliant because the gun is perfectly legal as imported. I was saying if he adds or replaces ANY parts with US made parts then he has to "finish" by meeting 922r. If he swaped out the thumbhole with a standard shoulder stock and a pistol grip it would be a violation of 922r, regardless of whether the parts are US or foreign made, because that configuration is ILLEGAL for importation.

Similar to the currect Saigas being imported. They are perfectly legal as imported but once you add a single US made part you must make it compliant of 922r.

Even if no one has been charged under 922r it is still a law.

Dolomite

[johnnychimpo]

Take a look at this checklist. It'll simplify which parts you can replace and let you know if your 922® compliant.

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance

Or if you want to take the time to decipher US Title 18 922® here you go.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922

[Guest Nunya]

Ok. I think I understand, now. Change one, change several. Leave it alone and shoot it.

I'm going to shoot it today. My rule is either it melts in my hand and I fall in love with it the first time I shoot it or it goes on the classified page.

[Smith]

I wasn't saying he has to add parts to be 922r compliant because the gun is perfectly legal as imported. I was saying if he adds or replaces ANY parts with US made parts then he has to "finish" by meeting 922r. If he swaped out the thumbhole with a standard shoulder stock and a pistol grip it would be a violation of 922r, regardless of whether the parts are US or foreign made, because that configuration is ILLEGAL for importation.

Similar to the currect Saigas being imported. They are perfectly legal as imported but once you add a single US made part you must make it compliant of 922r.

Even if no one has been charged under 922r it is still a law.

Dolomite

Nope. 922R has no bearing after importation, except for manufactures. To the end user it is of no consequence. 922r addresses assembling from imported parts. Not the insertion of certain numbers of parts post manufacture. the 10 parts issues is only applicable to manufactures not the end user. This has been verified several times by AG letters and the ATF.

Not that big of a deal. It's just a pet peave of mine when people get worked up about a non-issue and get new guys scared of breaking a non applicable law.

®It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to—

(1)the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

<a name="r_2">(2)the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.

[monkeylizard]

Do I understand this correctly then?

• A sporterized Saiga made in Russia and imported as-is
  
• It can be bought/sold without modification because it met the requirements at the time of import.
  
• An end consumer can change the furniture and make the change for AK-mags, but doesn't have to change enough other parts to get to the magic number of 10 because they are not a licensed manafyuacturer.
  
• If Arsenal does it, they have to get all 10 because they are a licensed manufacturer.
  
• Either way, it can change hands after the "conversion" without worry (State laws excluded).
  

Is that correct?

[Smith]

Do I understand this correctly then?

• A sporterized Saiga made in Russia and imported as-is
  
• It can be bought/sold without modification because it met the requirements at the time of import.
  
• An end consumer can change the furniture and make the change for AK-mags, but doesn't have to change enough other parts to get to the magic number of 10 because they are not a licensed manafyuacturer.
  
• If Arsenal does it, they have to get all 10 because they are a licensed manufacturer.
  
• Either way, it can change hands after the "conversion" without worry (State laws excluded).
  

Is that correct?

Practically speaking, yes. Enforcement can only be done at the manufacturer/importer level. Otherwise, even by the ATF's letters in response to the question, there is no way to identify origin country of parts since ID stamping is not required.

[peejman]

Do I understand this correctly then?

• A sporterized Saiga made in Russia and imported as-is
  
• It can be bought/sold without modification because it met the requirements at the time of import.
  
• An end consumer can change the furniture and make the change for AK-mags, but doesn't have to change enough other parts to get to the magic number of 10 because they are not a licensed manafyuacturer.
  
• If Arsenal does it, they have to get all 10 because they are a licensed manufacturer.
  
• Either way, it can change hands after the "conversion" without worry (State laws excluded).
  

Is that correct?

Practically speaking, yes. Enforcement can only be done at the manufacturer/importer level. Otherwise, even by the ATF's letters in response to the question, there is no way to identify origin country of parts since ID stamping is not required.

Very interesting. I have always been under the impression that 922r applied regardless. Note that the quoted text above begins with... "It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble..."

Care to link those AG/ATF letters? It's not that I don't believe you... just as Mr. Reagan once said... "Trust, but verify." I'll actually be a bit annoyed if this really is the case because it means I've wasted a fair bit of on compliance. All the US made parts I bought are stamped "US". Which isn't to say that the Chinese couldn't stamp "US" on stuff too.

[Smith]

Here is one: Again it's a commerce "crime", not a possesion "crime".

http://www.neighsayersforum.com/atfletters/09-0502,%20reply%20to%20922r%20general%20(redacted).pdf

[peejman]

Here is one: Again it's a commerce "crime", not a possesion "crime".

http://www.neighsaye...neral (redacted).pdf

Fixed link: http://www.neighsayersforum.com/atfletters/09-0502,%20reply%20to%20922r%20general%20%28redacted%29.pdf

From point 1 I get that literally anyone (individual or business) can be considered an "assembler". I feel sure they used the word "assembler" specifically to be distinguished from a "manufacturer". It specifically does not say "licensee", which I think is intentional.

From point 2 I get that it's not a crime to possess a non-compliant firearm, but it is a crime to build one (see point 1).

It appears to clearly state that there is no legal issue with owning or transferring a non compliant weapon between unlicensed individuals. However, the letter doesn't address it specifically, but I would infer that once you've identified non-compliance, you might be obligated to fix it.

I think the whole thing may be somewhat moot, as I've never heard of any individual being charged. I suspect this would be considered "secondary enforcement" meaning they only care if they've already caught you doing something more significant.... just another charge to pile on.

[Viracnis]

All that fun legal stuff aside there are much more important questions to be answered:

How'd it shoot?!

- V

[Guest kingarmory]

The gun had the threads ground off to make it importable and it appears to have the NHM-91 type furniture on it which I have NOT seen on a MAK90, but have seen on the NHM90 carbines.

[Guest Nunya]

All that fun legal stuff aside there are much more important questions to be answered:

How'd it shoot?!

- V

Shot just fine. My range (indoor, as the weather wasn't conducive to outdoor shooting) only went to 17 yards. Could place shots slow fire pretty much wherever I wanted them. No feed issues, no mag issues. Shouldered well. I am 5'8" with arms that match my stature, so Oriental weapons usually fit my "draw" well.

Sweet gun, I just can't see any advantage to it viz a viz over my SKS. For which reason, it has been sold.

[Guest Nunya]

The gun had the threads ground off to make it importable and it appears to have the NHM-91 type furniture on it which I have NOT seen on a MAK90, but have seen on the NHM90 carbines.

Yeah, it's gut an UGLY knurling job. Crosshatched, I guess would be a better word.

Does the NHM-91 furniture make it more valuable? (A moot point, as it is sold, SPF, at this point).

[Guest kingarmory]

Does the NHM-91 furniture make it more valuable? (A moot point, as it is sold, SPF, at this point).

AFAIK, no.

[Dolomite_supafly]

As much as I hate to do it I am going to write another letter to the ATF, second one this week.

The opinion letter talks about having a firearm bought second hand. Also it says it is legal as long as none of the original parts are replaced during maintenance.

I want to know if it is legal for me to purchase a firearm then swap parts out that make it not in compliance of 922r. All my guns were bought new by me, I cannot say I bought them second hand.

Dolomite

[TrickyNicky]

Does writing letters usually get a response? I tried writing an email months ago with a question on my C&R bound book and never heard back. Maybe it's time to take pen to paper?