first shots with 10/22 VQ barrel

[Symbolic]

I've got this 10/22 with a VQ barrel and trigger assembly. For some reason, the first shot and sometimes the 2nd and 3rd are just way off. After a couple of shots though, everything is fine and subsequent shots are right on the money. I'm shooting bulk CCI .22LR ammo and have a Sightron 3-9 mounted to the receiver. What's up with this?

[RED333]

Silly thought, scope loose, mine was loose on my S308, I felt like a idiot.

[Symbolic]

I thought that at first but the scope is on tight. I wonder if the barrel needs to warm up because I don't start hitting where I'm aiming until about the 4th or 5th shot.

[TrickyNicky]

How far off is way off?

Do you clean the barrel after each shooting session? Could be the barrel just needs a few shots to foul it.

Maybe you just need a few warm up shots to get you going, I usually do.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Do not clean your barrel unless accuracy get miserable. Rimfires will shoot for thousands upon thousands of rounds without cleaning.

Your first shot is normally off by a bit because it is hand cycled while all the rest are chambered by the gun cycling. When chambering make sure the gun is level and on target. If the muzzle it pointed up or down when chambering it will affect the consistency

If you are swapping between brands you need to give yourself about 25 rounds to foul with the new ammo. Some ammo doesn't play well with the lube of other brands.

To settle the barrel harmonics down do this. Take a foam earplug. Cut it in half and place it between the barrel and stock in the barrel channel of the stock. Place it about an inch away from the end of the stock. This should settle down the groups some. If you really want to tweak the shoot 25 rounds in 5 shot groups and get and idea of accuracy. Then move that foam earplug an inch closer to the receiver and shoot another 25 rounds. Then move the foam earplug again. Somewhere between the end of the stock and the V block the gun will really settle down with the ammo you are using. If you change ammo you need to do this again to tweak the most accuracy out of the gun.

To get rid of a lot of the flyers have your bolt headspaced. Most Ruger bolts are headspaced at .0450". Most rimfire rims are .0420 and .003" is a lot when you are squeezing the most out of your gun. And when they headspace your bolt they will also pin the firing pin which also helps to remove inconsistencies. Randy at CPC is about the cheapest and BEST there is. It will cost you under $60 to have it done but well worth the money if accuracy is important.

Dolomite

[Steelharp]

Your first shot is normally off by a bit because it is hand cycled while all the rest are chambered by the gun cycling.

Gordon, I don't doubt anything you ever say, but... is this serious? What the heck would that have to do with anything?

[Dolomite_supafly]

Gordon, I don't doubt anything you ever say, but... is this serious? What the heck would that have to do with anything?

Bolt speed I am sure. But I cannot say for sure. I do know that most match shooters will load their first round by hand then top off the magazine. Fire a "sighter" then have 10 more for record fire.

Dolomite

[Symbolic]

TrickyNicky, I've never actually measured how off the first shots are, but this will give you an idea. I often shoot at pizza boxes 50-70 yards away and I aim dead center. There's been times where the first shot is at the edge of the box. Subsequent shots walk towards point of aim. I'm out of pizza, but I think the boxes are 18 x 18, so I might be off by as much as 9 inches for the first shot at times. However, this is a rough guess.

Dolomite, I will look into the ear plug method you discribed. Thanks for the advice.

Is this a common problem?

[graycrait]

Listen to Dolomite, he has spent a lot of time on the mechanics of the 10/22.

I've likely had at least 15 10/22s in my lifetime, trying this and that. Right now I have 5 of my own and two that belong to others doing some things to them. With a good barrel I can't reinforce what Dolomite has said about getting the bolt cleaned up. Here are two that are well-regarded on Rimfire Central.

Randy at CPC

http://community-2.webtv.net/RandyAtCPC/CPC1022BoltRework/

Que:

https://sites.google.com/site/quesplace/

Also, if it were my 10/22 I would:

1) remount or change scopes just to see.

2) remount the barrel and torque the V-block bolts and if you are using an aftermarket V-block try using the stock Ruger V-block

3) Change ammo

4) What kind of stock are you using? Make sure you have the barrelled action properly tightened to the stock.

Speaking of ammo:

Dolomite thinks Federal Automatch is a good 10/22 ammo this year for the price. Ammo runs do very. I have to agree with Dolomite but I also have had good luck lately with Remington Goldens. I have tried everything with regards to ammo in 10/22s even good set-ups with specially reamed barrel chambers. I'm talking Wolf Match, Eley Tenex, and other Eley types, SK of various types, and just about every other match rifle or pistol ammo out there. With non-stock Ruger sporter chambers I am through with lead round nose bullets in 10/22s, especially in the 4 aftermarket barrels I currently have. Too much leading and unreliability in extraction too quickly. I'll use LRN ammo in my other .22s.

[Symbolic]

I had the bolt reworked by Randy at CPC, but the problem persists. The barrel is a Volquartsen carbon fiber .920" barrel. The stock is a choat Dragunov Ruger 10/22 stock. I am using the stock V-block. After some digging, I've found that I've put $918 into this rifle that I'm not 100% satisfied with. It's embarassing. I'm considering changing the scope. How would you torque the v-block bolts, graycrait? I haven't gotten around to the ear plug method yet.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Are you shooting off a bipod?

If so dump it because bipods creat all kinds of harmonic issues with a gun. It acts like a tuning fork and throuws everything off. Shoot across some sort of soft bag or a pillow. I have a 3 day pack that I put a few pillows in to shoot across. I can see a difference in groups sizes between shooting with, and shooting without, a bipod. another issue with a bipod is it puts upward pressure on the most flimsy part of the stock. And even though the barrel might not be touching at the front it might be touching at the rear and the amount of pressure at the rear varies with the amount of pressure on the bipod.

This also applies if you are shooting on a bag that is too narrow and only applies pressure to the tip of the stock. If you are going to use a thin back put it midway between the end of the stock and the action.

The first round is handcycled and that can impact where the powder sits in the case. And when the powder is different bewteen shots so will the impacts.

Also, if you have not done so, change the scope mount. The factory Ruger mounts are so out of whack that they can cause issues. I used Leupold bases and they seem to work well enough.

Dolomite

[RED333]

The first round is handcycled and that can impact where the powder sits in the case. And when the powder is different bewteen shots so will the impacts.

Dolomite

Gordon, I don't doubt anything you ever say, but... is this serious? What the heck would that have to do with anything?

That is your answer Steelharp, I would have never thought of it.

[Symbolic]

I'm shooting the 10/22 out of a rest, so it sits very still and stable. The scope mount is made by power custom, the rings are by warne, and the scope is by sightron. As far as I can measure, the barrel freefloats all the way to the v-block.

I shot 10 rounds at 50 yards today and my first shot was 3 inches from POA at 10 o'clock. Just way out there. Shots 2-10 punched a dime sized hole at POA. Am I expecting too much from the first round?

[RED333]

Left2Die762, From what I have read in the thread, I think you are.

I have learned a LOT from this, the part about the way powder sits in the case

got me thinking, it explanes somethings I see going on with my

first shots, not 22 but .308.

Now if I see this in my 7mm I wont worry.

thanks yall

Edited October 31, 2012 by RED333

[Dolomite_supafly]

Is it doing it consistently with different magazines? If you only have one then do this. Mark the top of the magazine, where the metal is, with a sharpie marker. Shoot a magazine full of bullets then look at the magazine. Is any of the sharpie wore off? If so then the bolt is riding on the magazine and we need to change that.

Also make sure the scope base screws are not protruding inside the receiver. If they are rubbing on the top of the bolt they can cause the bolt speed to be different.

Think about it this way. Anytime something slows the bolt down that increases the velocity. And that increase in velocity can cause the bullets to exit at different times during the barrel's harmonic whip. And that causes inaccuracies.

Also, what ammo you shooting? It is quite possible the ammo is inconsistent.

We will get it figured out, I promise to do my best.

Dolomite

[Symbolic]

I hadn't thought of the magazines. I have 3 10rd magazines and each magazine is numbered, but I never look at which one I put in. I will make a note of that the next time I shoot. The ammo I use is the CCI Blazer 525rd value pack. I'm kind of stuck with it because I bought 5250 rounds and I'm not even half way through. The scope base screws are not protruding into the inside top of the receiver.

The next time I shoot I will try your ear plug and sharpie methods, Dolomite. Thanks for not leaving me to die I guess RED is wrong.

[Oh Shoot]

...The ammo I use is the CCI Blazer 525rd value pack.

Though I'm not a precision shootist, that's my ammo of choice. And can tell you that a couple of guys who do have quite precise target rifles think it's almost as good as high end Eley stuff and the like. It really seems to be exactly same load as their MiniMag, with just a leadhead bullet instead of copper clad or washed or whatever they are.

It's the only bulk I've ever shot that I don't ever recall a dud, and even I myself can tell it's quite consistently loaded. So I'd rule that ammo out -- I mean, you might could get slightly better best results from a higher end load, but I'd opine it's not causing any consistent drastic difference like you seem to be getting.

- OS

Edited October 31, 2012 by OhShoot

[Symbolic]

Here is a bit of an update:

I decide I would remount the barrel and the first thing I noticed was that the v-block bolts were not very tight. They must have worked themselves loose. Should I locktite them? Second, I noticed that the barrel sticks into the receiver by 3/32 of an inch. When I first installed the barrel, I didn't have any go gauges and I didn't have a gunsmith look at it. I believe I just followed some directions I found on youtube or some forum. It's fired just fine with zero hiccups so I guess this was ok, but was it correctly installed? Do I really need to torque the v-block bolts to 28lbs/in or will hand tightening work?

[Dolomite_supafly]

Hand tight is just fine. I would not loctite though.

As far as headspace the bolt is where the headspace is set, not how much the barrel comes into the receiver.

Make sure the extractor is in the MIDDLE of the extractor cut otherwise you will have issues.

Dolomite

[Symbolic]

I did not remount the barrel tonight because I couldn't get it out. However, this is what it looks like in the receiver. Like I said, it's run like this since I first put the barrel in without any hiccups. I'm guessing then that it's OK the way it is. I will tighten the v-block bolts a little more and hopefully that might smooth things out. I'll also put the earplug in the stock, but I'm wondering if that will solve the problem with the first round being way off.

ETA: I will shoot it tomorrow and report back.

[img]http://s10.postimage.org/62ekmtcmx/Untitled.jpg[/img] Edited November 8, 2012 by Left2Die762

[Symbolic]

Nothing really changed when I shot today. I fired 3 rounds from each of my 3 magazines, so 9 rounds total. I shot at a cardboard milk carton that was 50 yards away. When I checked the target there were only 8 holes. I know that first shot missed because I never saw an impact. The only things I did to the rifle were to tighten the v-block bolts because they were a little loose and put the earplug in the barrel channel. I also noticed that my shots shifted right. I wonder if that's because of the earplug or just bad technique. No wind was blowing while shooting. I checked the tops of the magazine and there were no signs of the bolt scraping across them any more than necessary to chamber the next round.

[Mark@Sea]

When you chamber a round, do you ease the bolt home or let it slam shut?