night sights or crimson trace??

[Guest Glknknox]

The "secret" to night sights is two different colors.

Red/yellow up front, green on the back, or whatever.

Laser's are a big nono in my opinion,they can see you just as well as you can see them.

Handgun opinion only.

[Guest rdl65]

Both are just a gimmick to seperate a fool from his money. Spend the money on ammo and practice.

[Guest ColdEspresso]

Practice

[Guest db99wj]

I have never considered a laser, they are fun to play with but that is it, IMO. Night sights I have thought about, but have never pulled the trigger on. Since my XD is carried everyday, my front site had gotten dingy and was difficult to pick up quickly in low light situations. I got a flourescent orange pen and painted my front site to see if it helped on finding the front site when I come up to shoot. It helped alot. The cost was nothing, my daughter already had the pen. It is in my range bag now, shhhhh! I have heard others going to an art store and buying glow in the dark paint, and painting their sites. The paint is a bright color during the day and will glow a little at night.

[Guest CMSTA]

I have had a set of TFO sights that I liked and would consider and definately rely on a white light (that I can pulse). Lasers, I don't like. Constant lights and lasers can turn you into the target.

[HanSolo]

I thouhgt about a laser one time, but someone stressed to me that if I was in a situation in the dark and the bad guy did not know where I was, as soon as i turned that laser on he would know exactly where I was.

I did not think about this much again until i started playing Rainbow Six Vegas 2 and a lot of people equip lasers on their guns in that game online, and I can find them from across the map just by following the nice convenient red line.

[Guest mikedwood]

I thouhgt about a laser one time, but someone stressed to me that if I was in a situation in the dark and the bad guy did not know where I was, as soon as i turned that laser on he would know exactly where I was.

I did not think about this much again until i started playing Rainbow Six Vegas 2 and a lot of people equip lasers on their guns in that game online, and I can find them from across the map just by following the nice convenient red line.

The Crimson Trace is grip activted so adjust the grip a little and the laser is off or you can take your finger off the trigger and hold down the side and up a tad and the laser is covered. Concealing it is part of learning to use a laser. There is some training or reading that should go with using a laser. It's different than iron nights completely different.

[jay1313g]

I have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 26 and love it. It turns on and off with the amount of pressure I squeeze with. If I should ever have a confrontation, hopefully, the red dot will be all that is needed to diffuse the situation.

[Guest HunterH]

I have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 26 and love it. It turns on and off with the amount of pressure I squeeze with. If I should ever have a confrontation, hopefully, the red dot will be all that is needed to diffuse the situation.

I have a G27 and was thinking about adding a CT to it. Does the laser make concealment any harder? I know it pokes out just a bit on the butt of the gun and that is a place that can print the gun somewhat for me as I carry strongside, OWB.

[strickj]

I guess nobody read my post on what a laser is actually used for!

[Guest HunterH]

I guess nobody read my post on what a laser is actually used for!

Don't worry Strickj, I actually really enjoyed your post from Monday and took it to heart. I plan to get both. I ordered my new XD with night sights and have them already on my G27. I plan to get a crimson trace for the XD and likely the G27 also when I get more fundage. I feel that they are both valuable, but need to be learned about and trained on to be an advantage rather than a waste of money or worse, a disadvantage.

You every out at the owl hollow gun range? I would love to see your XD with all the goodies.

[strickj]

Actually I was referring to all the "but they would spot you with those things"

If your in a gun fight 1) They will see you 2) you would not use any sights,period,unless your actually in a gun battle with distance between you,and if that happened than you didn't do your job right when you pulled your gun to begin with!

Lasers make great training aids,and no,you do not only focus on the little red dot.You focus on your target through your sights(as one normally would),and there is merely a red dot at the end which helps show you what your doing wrong as you pull the trigger.

You every out at the owl hollow gun range? I would love to see your XD with all the goodies.

Unfortunately no,but if your ever around Ill show you how valuable a 350 Lasermax is for us non-completive shooters

[Guest HunterH]

thanks for the added info and clarification. I will also take that to heart. I agree with much of what you are saying. I think the laser is great for training, but can be a liability if not used correctly. I mainly want to learn to shoot instinctively at short range. 5-15 yards. I was hoping the laser would help me train to shoot that way and also help to confirm I am on target when needed. I am still trying to process all the info and am keeping a real open mind about how to best accomplish my shooting and self defense training goals.

So do you use another gun as your carry gun? if so, are they the same model?

[Guest mikedwood]

I have a G27 and was thinking about adding a CT to it. Does the laser make concealment any harder? I know it pokes out just a bit on the butt of the gun and that is a place that can print the gun somewhat for me as I carry strongside, OWB.

It's possible to carry with it but it does poke out a bit and won't fit in just any holster easily. Well easily for me I'm pretty neurotic about damaging it someway but it does seem pretty though so far.

As far as laying the laser on it without sights how is the bullet not going to go near where the laser is no matter if the gun is at your eye or at your hip or somewhere in between? And assuming the gun is held steady when the trigger is pulled. When shooting with a laser watch the target when the laser gets where you want it pull the trigger. It's going to be close. Did I miss something? It's not magic but it's close.

As far as giving away position I don't see that as an issue at 3-7 yards where they say most gunfights occur. They probably have a pretty good idea where you are. If you are at home and hiding then take a little precaution and don't activate the laser or cover it or grab the 12ga and I have yet to see many without a tacticool light for home defense so....

The anti laser arguements aren't holding up for me with the exception of price. Blah are they expensive for a pistol.

[Guest db99wj]

Several posts have mentioned about covering, and not squeezing hard. Here's my thought and question. In a self defence situation, adrenalyn will be pumping big time, you will be squeezing the hell out of your handgun anyway. No matter the training. Seems like it would be difficult or impossible to not squeeze hard in that situation. Just a thought?

[strickj]

Several posts have mentioned about covering, and not squeezing hard. Here's my thought and question. In a self defence situation, adrenalyn will be pumping big time, you will be squeezing the hell out of your handgun anyway. No matter the training. Seems like it would be difficult or impossible to not squeeze hard in that situation. Just a thought?

On mine switch is located on the breakdown lever,so its more like turning on/off an Insight mounted light.

So do you use another gun as your carry gun? if so, are they the same model?

I primarily carry it.Its an XD9 service

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Night sights = yes

Laser = no

+1

Night sights are a must, lasers are useless in a real life Self Defense Combat situation...they are simply toys for the cat. Tactical light is a plus if you train with it.

Folks lets be real, most of the situation where you will need a handgun for self defense will take place at night. Its imperative you have a complete sight picture for your first accurately placed shots. Night Sights are a must to achieve this. After that you should have muzzle flash that will limit your vision very briefly, so those first shots count. You should also be moving at this point because you have given away your position, a trained individual will shoot back toward your muzzle flash.

What I recommend is repetitive training in extreme low light situations, or flashing lights... whatever a probable situation might dictate. If you are going to have a flashlight available at all times, then train with it... but don't become dependant on it.

In short I'm not depending my life on any "device" that can be "turned off" or can be "battery dead"... or can be easily knocked off or covered up. Training is the most important thaing you can do.

[Guest db99wj]

My house is just not that dark at night. I wake up a lot during the middle of the night, 4 kids one of which is a baby, and I can see just fine. I couldn't read something, but I can see. IMO, unassisted, low light shooting is more important. If someone makes it in my house and to my bedroom, they are 15 feet away, I'm not aiming at that point! If I get into the hallway, that is about 20 feet down a hallway, I'm not aiming. The longest shot would be about 30 feet across the kitchen into our den, very open floorplan. I might aim, but I am going to be shooting.......alot! Also, in the middle of the night, I don't want be jack'n with any switches, buttons, levers, preassure points, etc. I want to point, click, boom, repeat until thud.

So, night sights yes for that long range shot, training, shooting and shooting some more YES.

[dcloudy777]

DB99... if you aren't aiming while shooting at 20ft I hope you have pre-paid burial service for your family and/or pre-paid legal service for yourself...

DanO

[Guest db99wj]

DB99... if you aren't aiming while shooting at 20ft I hope you have pre-paid burial service for your family and/or pre-paid legal service for yourself...

DanO

I'm not talking about throwing up the gun with your head under the pillow shooting. Have you ever practiced or have had training shooting while drawing, with the idea of hitting the target as fast as humanly possible? If so, which I assume you have, you don't stop, pause, line up the front sight with the intended target, then gently squeeze the trigger, while exaling. That technique works great on paper....and will get you killed in real life. There is no time for that. You draw your weapon up, point and shoot.

I practice from a complete holstered position, draw, point, shoot, and I hit the target.....everytime, and at 6.67 yards (20 feet) with multiple rounds, I get multiple hits on target. I should have been more clear on my "aiming" comment, it is more a of a point and shoot technique that aiming for bullseye.

[TGO David]

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this yet or not... but night sights are generally just all around better than the sights most manufacturers put on their guns from the factory. Even if you use your weapon for 99.9999999% daytime shooting, they are a worthwhile investment.

Take factory Glock sights for example. No, really... take them!

[dcloudy777]

Cool... it seems like you're referring to a "flash sight picture", in which the front sight, rear of the slide, some part of the gun, is superimposed over the target and used as an aiming aid (for which illuminated sights still help significantly in low light). I thought you were talking about pure point-shooting, as in "from-the-hip" Dianne Feinstein style ... which is of very dubious value outside of bad-breath distance... unless you're Bill Jordan or Ed McGivern or some other gifted superhuman instinctual shooter. Interesting though are the recollections of Jim Cirillo, who went 9-0 against armed felons, and clearly remembers using clear sight pictures before firing, even going so far as to notice the serrations on his front sight before dropping the hammer on one particular scumbag. However Cirillo was a world-class bullseye shooter with amazing physical gifts just like point-shooters like Jordan and McGivern. As with most polarized arguments, the extreme cases on either end shouldn't be given too much weight, as the truth lies somewhere in between. Getting too philosophical for myself, so I'll just leave it at that.

DanO

[Guest db99wj]

Cool... it seems like you're referring to a "flash sight picture", in which the front sight, rear of the slide, some part of the gun, is superimposed over the target and used as an aiming aid (for which illuminated sights still help significantly in low light). I thought you were talking about pure point-shooting, as in "from-the-hip" Dianne Feinstein style ... which is of very dubious value outside of bad-breath distance... unless you're Bill Jordan or Ed McGivern or some other gifted superhuman instinctual shooter. Interesting though are the recollections of Jim Cirillo, who went 9-0 against armed felons, and clearly remembers using clear sight pictures before firing, even going so far as to notice the serrations on his front sight before dropping the hammer on one particular scumbag. However Cirillo was a world-class bullseye shooter with amazing physical gifts just like point-shooters like Jordan and McGivern. As with most polarized arguments, the extreme cases on either end shouldn't be given too much weight, as the truth lies somewhere in between. Getting too philosophical for myself, so I'll just leave it at that.

DanO

Yes and I should have been more clear. I actually practice throughout the day, throwing up my hands, as if drawing and "aim" at the light switch or a book on the shelf or whatever (my coworkes think I have turets or something and have stopped ducking....just kidding) and what you described as the "flash sight picture" is what I was talking about, even if I didn't have the correct name for it. Definately not shooting from the hip! In regards to Jim Cirillo, amazing story, I wonder if the adrenlayn rush causes that clarity. Don't know, don't really want to be in that situation. How long is 20 feet, a good way to visualize it without measuring is that length of a Suburban is 18.5 feet. A mid size SUV, like a Jeep Grand Cherokee is 15 feet.

I mentioned earlier, that I painted my front sight flourescent orange, this is until I have the money to buy some night sights. This has helped me pick up on that front sight, even in lower light conditions.

Edited June 5, 2008 by db99wj

[Guest HunterH]

It's possible to carry with it but it does poke out a bit and won't fit in just any holster easily. Well easily for me I'm pretty neurotic about damaging it someway but it does seem pretty though so far.

As far as laying the laser on it without sights how is the bullet not going to go near where the laser is no matter if the gun is at your eye or at your hip or somewhere in between? And assuming the gun is held steady when the trigger is pulled. When shooting with a laser watch the target when the laser gets where you want it pull the trigger. It's going to be close. Did I miss something? It's not magic but it's close.

As far as giving away position I don't see that as an issue at 3-7 yards where they say most gunfights occur. They probably have a pretty good idea where you are. If you are at home and hiding then take a little precaution and don't activate the laser or cover it or grab the 12ga and I have yet to see many without a tacticool light for home defense so....

The anti laser arguements aren't holding up for me with the exception of price. Blah are they expensive for a pistol.

When I say instinctive shooting, what I mean is normal draw stroke with both hand on the gun out front at eye level, but letting your eyes focus on the target more than the sights. Kind of a point and shoot. Trying to develop the muscle memory to line the gun up correctly without using the sights, or using them only to confirm. I would only use this technique for very short range. no more than 10 yards est.

[bushfox25]

Buy ammo and range time instead.

I never understood the utility of either.

For laser grips, they do not make you a better shooter. Since the biggest problem shooters have is keeping the sights aligned when they pull the trigger, laser sights won't help that, they'll just show you where the point of aim is wobbling around. They are OK as training aids, but that's about it. Maybe deterrent as well.

For night sights, if you can't see your target well enough to use regular sights, why are you shooting at it? If you can, then you don't need night sights. They wear out and are expensive to replace.

+1