Open carry: a bad idea

[The Rabbi]

I dont see any benefit to open carry other than comfort. That may not be a bad reason under limited circumstances.

A lot of it is situational. If you are a white middle class guy in a small town you've spent your whole life in, then its probably fine.

If you are Black guy in a working class/inner city neighborhood then I think you'd be crazy to do so.

In all I think of people who open carry as a teaching device in roughly the same category as someone who goes around in a thigh drop holster and camo. And people like that make me think gun laws ought to be stricter.

[Guest Hyaloid]

I don't OC as much as I used to, but I still do.

The reasons:

(1) It is often times more comfortable, especially in the summer

(2) Despite claims, I have yet to see any reports of someone OCing being shot first, yet have read many accounts of OCing deterring criminal activity. (and besides, the presentation of a firearm is the most common 'self defense' use of a carried weapon, right?)

(3) It is my right, whether recognized or not, and it is perfectly legal in the state of Tennessee.

(4) I am not a cowboy, nor am I looking for trouble or to educate anyone (though sometimes I have to). Many times, obviously not universally, many people who CC but are anti-OC, seem more the cowboy... relishing and dreaming of their 'surprise' on the bad guy when they get to draw their weapon and fire on an unsuspecting criminal.

(5) Either mode of carry, situational awareness and avoidance of confrontation are necessary and more important than which method you decide to carry your firearm.

I have posted this before, closely examine the arguments that anti-gun people give against carrying firearms, and then examine the arguments against open carrying... there are MANY parallels.

Before someone goes and gets their shorts in a twist, I am NOT saying that just because you do not want to open carry, that you are anti-gun. Just a bit of reflection.

Just to be sure no one thinks I am just trying ot be an ass and confrontational, I am including several smilies to show my friendly disposition...

[Guest kwikrnu]

1. a persons's continious situational awareness that is projected to others is the deterant not an open gun.

see post 24. An gun carried openly IS the deterant.

[Guest DrBoomBoom]

I wouldn't open carry in public without extensive training in retention. I don't care what the statistics are on weapon snatching, that's the only way I'd do it. If anybody else wants to open carry, that's fine by me. While the open carriers are walking around garnering stares, I'll be the guy with the smile on my face and my hand in my pocket (no jokes).

[Guest kwikrnu]

2. I don't buy the arguement against the element of surprise as it suggests that you are only going to use that advantage once you have been engaged at close range and surprised. The element of suprise is a formitable advange when used with situational awareness. If you get caught off guard, then you are screwed either way. People bring the level of intensity to a conflict that they sense from you. A reason self defense classes often tell you to relax your body before you attack in self defense as the attacker will often momemtarily let their guard down. If you have an open gun in a conflict or get caught in a robbery, you have almost certianly raised the stakes to a gun fight.

If people see your gun and attack then of course they have raised the stakes to a gun fight. However, you have most likely eliminated all other attacks. I have not been able to find one newstory where a regular person who carried their handgun openly was attacked, assaulted or killed.

If open carry deters bad guys does concealed carry attract them?

[Guest kwikrnu]

3. I fear that people who open carry may be emboldened to go to higher risk situations than they would otherwise. The right to carry does not mean we should now go down that high risk dark alley, but rather as armed citizens, we must go farther than others to avoid confrontation due to the responsibility that we have chose to take on.

Why would people who open carry be any more emboldened than those who have a concealed handgun? The answer is they are not.

[strickj]

I love this one being bandied about. Cite some facts or even word of mouth story where this happened.

Personally I think there is a time and a place for everything. I am not particularly worried if someone sees I have a pistol. I keep it covered for the most part. But I do not believe it makes me a target or it will be taken from me.

All of that reminds me of anti's saying there will be blood in the streets or shootouts in bars etc... And of course none of that is true either.

Same here! I just dont care!Sometimes its concealed,sometimes its not.When Its concealed it because my shirt got stuck over it.When its open it because my shirt got stuck behind it.

Theres a plus,and minus to both!

On the cite some facts;I have only heard of those in LE being targeted first for removal in times of crime.However I have herd of:cough: someone being accused of impersonating an officer for open carrying.

Theres a time and a place for all things!For anyone who chooses to open carry in the wrong time,and place should not have a HCP.Yes its legal,but theres some common sense that goes along with a great responsibility!

[Guest kwikrnu]

4. I do not wish to passify those who feel they have a right to "feel safe". as we have just as much right to feel safe in our own way, including open carry. However, in most suburban and urban areas, the population is generally less knowageble and thus ignorant and afraid of guns. We are all ambasidors for each other as gun owners, and we need to help create positive public relations to advance our cause. Given the ignorance of much of the population, we need to be sensitive to how we accomplish this goal of positive PR. We have to expose people to guns on their terms more than our terms if we wish to accomplish our intented aim. Is that fair?? no it is not, but to be effective, I feel that is the appoach that will give us the ultimate victory of not facing any more D.C. vs. Heller and similar cases that determine our rights. The Heller case looks to go in our favor, but imagine if it did not.... makes the inconveince of having to be focused on how others perceive us more manageable. Remember, perception is reality in the eyes of the beholder and they will act and vote accordingly.

pacify, sensitive, feel?

It does not matter what anyone thinks or feels. Open carry is legal in Tennessee.

[Guest kwikrnu]

(2) Despite claims, I have yet to see any reports of someone OCing being shot first, yet have read many accounts of OCing deterring criminal activity. (and besides, the presentation of a firearm is the most common 'self defense' use of a carried weapon, right?)

(4) I am not a cowboy, nor am I looking for trouble or to educate anyone (though sometimes I have to). Many times, obviously not universally, many people who CC but are anti-OC, seem more the cowboy... relishing and dreaming of their 'surprise' on the bad guy when they get to draw their weapon and fire on an unsuspecting criminal.

Right on!

[Guest Hyaloid]

Before this hits 20 pages and feelings get hurt...

May I suggest a perusal of the following thread, which I think presented some very good arguments for both sides.

THEN... if there are any new revelations, let's continue the 'debate' here.

PREVIOUS THREAD: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1756

[Guest kwikrnu]

Theres a time and a place for all things!For anyone who chooses to open carry in the wrong time,and place should not have a HCP.Yes its legal,but theres some common sense that goes along with a great responsibility!

The wrong place for open carry is the same as the wrong place for concealed carry.

[Guest jackdog]

Open carry was primarily put into the carry law so that if you showed a carry weapon my accident, you would not be committing a crime, such as is the case in Mi and TX. Open carry does have some benefit under the right conditions. I think these conditions are few and far between. To me a guy that must open carry is looking for attention or thinks this makes him macho or some thing. All in all OP is not a good practice to me.

But to each his own.

[Guest jth_3s]

What would happen if you were OC or CCand you got into a fist fight with someone you didnt know. I was told in my saftey class you couldnt defend youself with your weapon unless it was a situation of serious bodily injury or a life or death situation and a fist fight wouldnt be considered one. Ive always wondered because if they got the upper hand and got your gun you would be screwed. I feel the situation in OC would be more justifed in using your weapon because he knew what he was getting into when he saw the weapon and engaged in the fight.

[Guest DrBoomBoom]

The wrong place for open carry is the same as the wrong place for concealed carry.

Church?

[Guest 70below]

What would happen if you were OC or CCand you got into a fist fight with someone you didnt know. I was told in my saftey class you couldnt defend youself with your weapon unless it was a situation of serious bodily injury or a life or death situation and a fist fight wouldnt be considered one. Ive always wondered because if they got the upper hand and got your gun you would be screwed. I feel the situation in OC would be more justifed in using your weapon because he knew what he was getting into when he saw the weapon and engaged in the fight.

If you get into a fist fight while carrying and you choose to use your gun, be prepared for jail time. You're going to have to do an awful lot of explaining to do regardless of situation or justification, and being involved in a fist fight while armed is not going to be viewed very highly. Don't put yourself in that situation, and if you end up in that situation, and its truly life or death, then you can live with the fact that you're in jail if a jury of your "peers" doesn't find your actions to be justified.

[Guest kwikrnu]

Church?

I don't think there is any wrong place to carry a gun, just illegal places.

[Guest jcramin]

Well the only time I carry OPEN is when I am going garage saleing with my wife on Saturday mornings. The reason I open carry then is easy. Anytime I am driving I make sure my gun is accessible to me, so what I do is tuck my shirt in behind my gun when im driving then when I get out of my truck I just pull my shirt back over it to cover it. But, when we go on our all morning garage sale trips I am getting in and out and in and out for a couple hours I may get in and out 20 or 30 times and its just easier to open carry rather than keep covering and uncovering all morning long.

[Guest kwikrnu]

I don't know why there is all this hate for people who choose to legally open carry their handguns. You don't see people who carry open complain about those who conceal carry. People who carry concealed in our State don't seem to have a problem with people in other States who carry openly because they are too young or otherwise unable to obtain a concealed carry permit.

[Mark@Sea]

By the way, Virginia has permitless open carry. I've been in a hotel for the last couple months in Virginia Beach, and frequently carried. No undue comments , no one has attacked me to get my pistol (which, thinking about it, seems like a good way to win a Darwin), no one has told me to leave their business. Frankly, 90%+ just don't notice. No doubt this has been a statistical fluke, and tomorrow morning, I'll have a SWAT team take me down, unintentionally saving me from the 3 muggers who are planning to 'get my gat', and providing the waiting TV news team and half dozen state politicians with that one incident they've been waiting for in order to ban handgun ownership in the state...

[The Rabbi]

What would happen if you were OC or CCand you got into a fist fight with someone you didnt know. I was told in my saftey class you couldnt defend youself with your weapon unless it was a situation of serious bodily injury or a life or death situation and a fist fight wouldnt be considered one. Ive always wondered because if they got the upper hand and got your gun you would be screwed. I feel the situation in OC would be more justifed in using your weapon because he knew what he was getting into when he saw the weapon and engaged in the fight.

Rule #1 is dont get into fistfights.

Rule#2 is a fist can inflict death or severe bodily harm, so deadly force would be allowed to neutralize that threat.

If someone threatens me with his fist I'm pulling the gun. No point screwing around.

[The Rabbi]

I don't know why there is all this hate for people who choose to legally open carry their handguns. You don't see people who carry open complain about those who conceal carry. People who carry concealed in our State don't seem to have a problem with people in other States who carry openly because they are too young or otherwise unable to obtain a concealed carry permit.

For some reason the fact that you are such a proponent of OC convinces me that it's a bad idea.

[Guest kwikrnu]

For some reason the fact that you are such a proponent of OC convinces me that it's a bad idea.

I like guns too.

[The Rabbi]

I like guns too.

So did Oswald.

[Guest kwikrnu]

So did Oswald.

Let's join together and stop supplying the world with guns. I promise not to sell any more guns if you do the same.

[Guest GT_Rat]

My three reasons for not open carrying:

1. The previously mentioned "Giving up the element of surprise." I'm going to keep every advantage I have.

2. If your open carrying you are loudly proclaiming yourself to any determined gunman that you are their greatest threat. Pick up the target to stick to your back at the door.

3. Staying concealed keeps the sheep from getting nervous. Nervous sheep are the ones that like to write their congressmen and have our gun rights removed because anyone with a gun must be a bad guy.

I'm sure this all has probably been covered but I don't have time to read five pages of posts right now.