Open carry: a bad idea

[robin48]

Everyone who carries open is not an attention whore. 90% of the time I carry concealed, but if I need to run to Kroger or something and I am wearing on my belt I don't stress about making sure it is covered. It is an individual choice and one method is no better than the other. In Tennessee it is indeed a choice whether one likes it or not.

[Guest jackdm3]

Gosh, I really hope this is a honest discussion/debate and not a tit for tat thing. I welcome the opinions of mob rule. "To each his own" I do agree with, but I do it without looking down my nose as to why someone would want to carry concealed. Whatever the reasons are, even if it's to be cool.

I may call the grammar police on posts like this.

[Guest bkelm18]

I think he was acting like a fool, and IMO was a danger to public safety.

His actions are not ours, or at least I hope there is not more like him.

But his fight is all of ours, if they can revoke without charges, then your weapon isnt a legal right, but a privilege.

They are revoking his permit to carry, not his right to own firearms. You have no legal right to be able to carry a firearm. It's a privilege issued by the state of TN.

[Guest 10mm4me]

The only time I open carry is when I'm hunting.

[Guest Gene83]

Everyone who carries open is not an attention whore. 90% of the time I carry concealed, but if I need to run to Kroger or something and I am wearing on my belt I don't stress about making sure it is covered. It is an individual choice and one method is no better than the other. In Tennessee it is indeed a choice whether one likes it or not.

It's true that it's a choice whether one likes it or not, but it's also the right of the property owner to post his property if he see's his other customers being upset by people openly carrying guns on his property.

Once the signs are up saying that no guns are permitted on the premises whether you possess a carry permit or not, what does that do to everyone's rights?

We can push for our rights and end up with every piece of property in the state posted.

[Guest faust921]

You have no legal right to be able to carry a firearm. It's a privilege issued by the state of TN.

Gentle correction - it is a right, not a privilege. We should not grovel to get back what the collectivists took away.

You have a RIGHT to protect your person and it does not stop at the end of your driveway. It is a natural right, not one issued by a committee, or a judge, or the NRA, or your mother.

Using a phrase from the B.O's play book - "Make no mistake." Our founding fathers had the standing of ordinary, middle class persons in their day. They did not have titles, nor were they noblemen. They would have been approximately middle class and those that took up arms in the American Revolution were also middle class. If you look at history, most revolutions are started by the middle class because they have the most to lose in relative terms. The American Revolution was a nutty accident of success, initiated by kooks. We, the so called "gun nuts" are the kooks of today.

Look at our current situation, we have an underclass that continues to consume more and more entitlements. The ratio of entitlements to GDP is as high as it has ever been and it is growing. We have a ruling class that provides the underclass with entitlements and marching orders. The middle class pays for it via debt. The loss in your property value is a tax levied against you by the government that continues to sell U.S. debt to the Chinese or someone else so it can print more greenbacks, and spend them to gain underclass favor.

On top of this, add open boarders and aging demographics and there will be a boiling point. 2020? 2025? 2035? It is inevitable, as these problems are 60 years in the making. We are accepting the unacceptable. Our great grandparents would have puked if they could see the direction we are going in. A nation cannot borrow without limits anymore than a person can.

At some point other nations will not let us borrow. When the spigot of freebies is closed there will be social upheaval and the ruling class wants the middle class to be unarmed when this happens. Who is behind the anti-gun movement? The very rich, the very poor, and those at the nipple of government - politicians and bureaucrats. Nuts? Tin Foil Hat Ideas? No. This has happened before in the course of human history and is precisely what our founders wanted to prevent with the Bill of Rights and the 1st and 2nd amendments. It is a Bill of Rights, not a Bill of Privileges.

Learn from the American Left. The left did not even have the ability to move legislation so they litigated, and while they litigated they broke down the public resistance to many social taboos that would have incited a lynch mob 50 years ago. 13 year olds learning to use a condom in school but they are ignorant and illiterate. Global warming B.S., Marry whatever you want, dog, houseplant, whatever. Grow some pot and sell it as medicine. Turn your medication and health care decisions over to the government. Have you ever been a patient at a VA hospital? God help us. This is result of being washed away a grain of sand at a time. Finally - Grand Canyon.

We need to use the same tactic AND we don't have to litigate because we have the votes. Carry in restaurants has 70%+ approval, legislate. Parking Lot bill, legislate. Shall issue, legislate. No laws against gun shows, legislate. Indemnity from civil suits by a criminal's survivors if he is killed during a crime, legislate. We need to corrode the foundations of the anti-gun industry, because the elites want us disarmed. Why? They have bodyguards and money to move them from harm's way. What is their motivation? Ask yourself what smart, wealthy, power brokers have to gain from a disarmed middle class.

You think it is a privilege to carry because THE MAN has been programming you to think that way. They have the power to take your privileges away but we have the power in this country to speak and to vote. Open boarders are an effort to eliminate that voting power.

You start our return to normalcy by rejecting the "privileges" mindset. If it is good for you as an individual, it is good for individuals like us too. When someone starts taking about what is good for groups or society or public welfare, they are really trying to help themselves. We need to remove the HCP permit power and put these decision in the hands of the citizens, like a jury.

Self defense is not a privileged. OC is not a privilege. Kwik took it too far too fast and in the wrong direction. We would be better off getting more people to get permits, before we do away with permits and other limits on 2A rights.

[Oh Shoot]

Gentle correction - it is a right, not a privilege. We should not grovel to get back what the collectivists took away....

Sorry, but you sound like Spartacus.

If you can't exercise a right, it doesn't exist.

In TN, have the right to own and carry a weapon on your own property.

Some states don't even allow that.

You pay TN for the special privilege to carry a loaded weapon off your property. To some places.

- OS

[mikegideon]

The real funny thing is, this thread was revived because of off-topic Open Carry post made in another thread......now this thread is getting way off topic.

Guess OC threads just get derailed no matter what is being discussed in them.

This is an old thread. Didn't the OP pass away a couple years ago?

[Guest db99wj]

Sorry, but you sound like Spartacus.

If you can't exercise a right, it doesn't exist.

In TN, have the right to own and carry a weapon on your own property.

Some states don't even allow that.

You pay TN for the special privilege to carry a loaded weapon off your property. To some places.

- OS

+1

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

This is an old thread. Didn't the OP pass away a couple years ago?

Well I hope not as age was listed as only 33, but search reveals last post nearly a year ago. I do hope that post was made in jest but I've not been around here long enough to know.

I am thankful our State allows and protects our right to have a gun in our Constition.....Some dont.

I am thankful our State allows us to buy the privilege to carry our guns into public.....Some dont.

I am very thankful for the privilege to openly carry our guns...again some States dont.

I do not however OC...I might one day but as of yet have not, I like the idea because it takes away the worry of printing or accidentally revealing our guns turning into a crime, as it can in some states.

I am always considering moving back to FL, where only CC is allowed and an accidental showing of a weapon could be turned into a crime by some Anti DA brought on by a anti call of MWAG. It will be hard to get use to if I ever do move back.

On the flip-side the castle doctrine in FL allows a loaded handgun in ones car without a permit while we all know how messed up TN laws are on that.

I personally take "Shall not be infringed" to mean that everyone in every state who is not otherwise prohibited is able to carry in any manner they chose. This as we know is not the case, nor do I think it ever will be.

So while we dont have the BEST gun laws in the Country they are some of the best and because we are given the choice to OC or CC the debate over which is best will rage on forever.

For me....I am going to to do whatever I feel like doing without regard to anyone else's opinion so long as what I do is legal. I would hope and do think that is the case for all of us here.

I feel it is OK to try and sway others opinions but not OK to belittle them if they are not the same as our own. Each method of carry has it's advantages and disadvantages. It is our personal choice to chose the method we prefer and that choice should not have to be defended.

As I said I am very thankful we have the choice even though I will most likely only ever use one of them.

[Guest 270win]

Tennessee law has long considered it a priviledge PERIOD to carry a handgun off your own property or business through the years with written directives from the sheriffs depts and in the later years handgun carry permits through the sheriffs depts and then Dept of Safety. I don't consider that much of a right. Now I'm sure in the old days the law was not enforced much against people 'illegally' carrying...but on the books the state did not recognize people freely carrying, open or concealed, as a right and still does not.

At least 'getting legal' is fairly easy in TN, if you choose to carry in public, compared to in the past, even though on the flip side the LEO community is not going to cut slack for 'illegal' carry of generally upstanding citizens like they once did in days gone by because permits are easy and fairly cheap to get. There's really no excuse not to get one. So have we truly gained any freedoms from say 1930 to now? Probably not...yeah on the books...but i'm sure those in 1930 who wanted to carry did (clean cut old timers i know did and had NO PROBLEMS from police that knew they did..judges knew...prosecutors..basically looked the other way). They sure didn't run and get fingerprinted and pay money to the government and would probably laugh at the idea of having to pay for a 'permit' to avoid getting arrested. Most of them actually concealed though....few if any open carried.

[Guest Jamie]

... i'm sure those in 1930 who wanted to carry did (clean cut old timers i know did and had NO PROBLEMS from police that knew they did..judges knew...prosecutors..basically looked the other way). They sure didn't run and get fingerprinted and pay money to the government and would probably laugh at the idea of having to pay for a 'permit' to avoid getting arrested. Most of them actually concealed though....few if any open carried.

It wasn't so long ago as 1930 that people did that. My own grandfather carried a gun with him every day, until his death in 1985. Another old fellow I knew walked around this county with a .38 hanging out of his back pocket constantly.

Nobody ever even batted an eye at him for it.

All of that pretty much came to a halt in 1995 or so, when permits became "shall issue". Since then, nobody really looks the other way anymore if you don't have a permit.

J.

[Mike.357]

I don't really mind that we have no right to bear arms here.

I do believe everyone should have the right to keep and bear but also that there are people who really do not have common sense enough to do so. Having the carry of guns regulated helps keep the idiots from doing it. Those idiots are not going to take the time and expense to be legal, and without the permit they are not going to carry. ( criminal types not included)

Just because something is allowed doesn't mean everyone needs to be doing it.

OC or CC I don't think it really matters.

[TGO David]

This is an old thread. Didn't the OP pass away a couple years ago?

Close. He moved to Oklahoma.

[Guest faust921]

Sorry, but you sound like Spartacus.

If you can't exercise a right, it doesn't exist.

In TN, have the right to own and carry a weapon on your own property.

Some states don't even allow that.

You pay TN for the special privilege to carry a loaded weapon off your property. To some places.

- OS

Sorry, but I don't know "Spartacus" or are you talking about the movie?

Some states like Alaska don't even require a permit.

So you like paying for your "privileged"?

[Mike.357]

Sorry, but I don't know "Spartacus" or are you talking about the movie?

Some states like Alaska don't even require a permit.

So you like paying for your "privileged"?

OS was just stating fact, I do not think his personal preference ever came into it.

[molonlabetn]

Sorry, but you sound like Spartacus.

If you can't exercise a right, it doesn't exist.

In TN, have the right to own and carry a weapon on your own property.

Some states don't even allow that.

You pay TN for the special privilege to carry a loaded weapon off your property. To some places.

- OS

Rights don't originate from the state or a piece of paper, those can only confirm or deny them. In TN we are denied the right except if we pay the rite of passage to do so... essentially, the right is taxed.

If a group of politicians told you that it was illegal to breathe without an oxygen permit, does that make breathing a priviledge?

Edited March 16, 2010 by molonlabetn

[Guest db99wj]

It wasn't so long ago as 1930 that people did that. My own grandfather carried a gun with him every day, until his death in 1985. Another old fellow I knew walked around this county with a .38 hanging out of his back pocket constantly.

Nobody ever even batted an eye at him for it.

All of that pretty much came to a halt in 1995 or so, when permits became "shall issue". Since then, nobody really looks the other way anymore if you don't have a permit.

J.

My dad carried one, until he died in 2000. Everyone knew it, because that .38 was in the small of his back (holstered), or beside him in the car. Sometimes it would be concealed, sometimes not. When I was a kid playing baseball, he ran the concession stand, yep, walking around the park, with his gun in his pants. He ran a small corner grocery and meat market for years, and carried all the time there, all the police and Sheriff's department, knew, he was friends with most of them. He provided the county jail with a lot of their cafeteria food. As far as I know, he never got a permit in 95, but he still carried.

[Guest Jamie]

If a group of politicians told you that it was illegal to breathe without an oxygen permit, does that make breathing a priviledge?

It'd be kind'a tough to argue it didn't if they chose to enforce it. ( Insert "blue in the face" smilie here )

J.

[Guest Jamie]

My dad carried one, until he died in 2000. Everyone knew it, because that .38 was in the small of his back (holstered), or beside him in the car. Sometimes it would be concealed, sometimes not. When I was a kid playing baseball, he ran the concession stand, yep, walking around the park, with his gun in his pants. He ran a small corner grocery and meat market for years, and carried all the time there, all the police and Sheriff's department, knew, he was friends with most of them. He provided the county jail with a lot of their cafeteria food. As far as I know, he never got a permit in 95, but he still carried.

I'm sure there are still a very few exceptions still walking around out there... possibly even Sheriffs handing out reserve commissions to a "favored few", just to keep 'em legal, and so they won't have to go to the expense or trouble of getting a permit. I know I've seen at least a couple of instances of that right here.

But by and large, the days of carrying ( "legally" ) without some form of permission are over.

J.

[mikegideon]

Sorry, but I don't know "Spartacus" or are you talking about the movie?

Some states like Alaska don't even require a permit.

So you like paying for your "privileged"?

I do. Cold weather sucks

[molonlabetn]

It'd be kind'a tough to argue it didn't if they chose to enforce it. ( Insert "blue in the face" smilie here )

J.

Exactly... it is a choice to abide by the restriction or face the consequences.

Personally, I'm going to breathe and I'm going to carry... nobody ever promised that exercising a right was always easy, or that everyone would agree. Going along with jumping through a few hoops, for the sake of keeping peace, is sometimes just prudent... choosing one's battles. But, I'm not going through life thinking "That's all the government let's me do, that must be all there is" (good thing the founders of this country didn't think that way). It has little or nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment either... because all that is, is written affirmation of one method we have to defend ourselves, both individually and collectively.

[mikegideon]

It wasn't so long ago as 1930 that people did that. My own grandfather carried a gun with him every day, until his death in 1985. Another old fellow I knew walked around this county with a .38 hanging out of his back pocket constantly.

Nobody ever even batted an eye at him for it.

All of that pretty much came to a halt in 1995 or so, when permits became "shall issue". Since then, nobody really looks the other way anymore if you don't have a permit.

J.

I carried a lot in the '70's (small town). I knew most of the cops, and they knew I carried. Their rule was... If you discharge your firearm in the bar, I'm gonna slap you with this stick.

I never got slapped.

[Oh Shoot]

OS was just stating fact, I do not think his personal preference ever came into it.

Correct, of course.

- OS

[Guest 270win]

Yes, I had family (now deceased) in Arkansas who constantly carried handguns while 'on a journey' way before there were ever licenses issued in the mid 1990's by the state police. They were never on a journey/traveling and carried in their own towns for protection. They still carried even after you could get a license. These were elderly people who thought paying the government was some sort of infringement on their right to carry. Police knew about it and even came across a handgun during traffic stop/accidents I'm sure but said they were 'traveling/on a journey'...thus no arrest. A cloth on top of a handgun on the seat doesn't really cover it much!

I had a friendly discussion with a higher up in a police dept before getting a license in 2004 in AR. He said I would be fine with a handgun in my car (which i frequently did) but it would be a good idea to get a license if i wanted to carry on me when not on a journey to avoid getting arrested. I decided then it wasn't worth doing what the old timers did b/c the police cut them a lot of slack that they wouldn't cut me and expect me to pay the State Police. Kind of sad how times have changed. I now have my TN permit b/c had to follow the law here too when i moved.