Open carry: a bad idea

[Fallguy]

I wasn’t debating his common sense; I directly addressing his statement by stating that open carry is a common sense issue. I know that he is young and I assume that he is trying to decide if it is a good idea or not.

Sorry Dave, think I have misinterpreted your post before.

Guess I was just used to the anti OC rant of most and took it that you meant it goes against common sense to OC.

My apologies. I need to quit posting when I have other things on my mind.

[Guest c.a.s.]

It’s called common sense. God gave it to you for a reason. And just like intelligence; some people got more than others.

How many stories do you need to validate the idea that if you walk around like a cowboy you are going to have a problem?

I'm going to ignore that blatant ageism.

Odd, I hang around on THR, and ALMOST ALL of the stories there show *loud gasp* Nothing Bad happened.

Odd you call it a cowboy issue. The Founding Fathers looked DOWN on CCW, while looking up on Open Carry. They figured, why hide it? You are not commiting a crime, why hide it?

Go ahead. Provide a SUBSTANTIAL amount of cases in which someone was specifically targeted by criminals for having an OC firearm, or having it taken from the holster and used against them.

[Guest c.a.s.]

dude, look at his profile, he's just 16... a few years ago he was strapped playing cowboys and indians and Marshal Dillon!

My age is actually to the left of my post. In my "user information" section.

I don't think I've ever played cowboys and indians, but I WAS strapped a few months ago running the HCP qualification at Mike's. His OWB holster for his Springfield is nice, and so is his Springfield. December, IIRC.

[Guest jdavis]

check the history of bank robberies,hostage situations,and any other crime where a gunfight was involved,how many police officers have lost there life in the line of duty? do you think the offenders were afraid the officers were going to throw there badge at them? if they were afraid of a badge then they would not have commited the crime in the first place. and again i am not against open carry nor for it but i think every side of a story needs to be told, and in the times of our fore fathers we not only lived by the gun we also died by it, the gun and being good and fast with it was the only way to survive, i seriously doubt any of us would have survived very long in a time when a debate just like the one we are having now would have gotten you shot....... ;);)

Edited July 31, 2008 by jdavis
misspelling

[Guest c.a.s.]

Police are not your average citizen, and those criminals were not exactly your average criminal. Largely, AFAIK, they were insane, expected to get away, or did not expect to live. Those that obtained bullet-resistant clothing and equipment expected it to protect them (until the police got rifles, they learned)

That is still not a substantial amount of articles. Indeed, there were no articles in that particular post. High-Profile firefights are not an every day occurrence, if you haven't noticed by now.

History, Padawan, learn it you must. The Founding Fathers did not make a tyranny, in which conflicting opinions are obliterated. They welcomed debate, otherwise we would only have one political party instead of the many we have now (with the two main parties, of course)

[Oh Shoot]

Police are not your average citizen, ....

Your sig phrase "The best vermin target EVER" points to invalid URL

(http://www.jpfo.org/hitlertarget.pdf).

JFYI,

- OS

[Guest mw.]

Source?

http://www.leaa.org/courtshooting2.html

The largest percent of disarming techniques are used from presentation of the weapon, be it a knife or gun.

If you open carry have you already presented it?

[Guest jdavis]

Police are not your average citizen, and those criminals were not exactly your average criminal. Largely, AFAIK, they were insane, expected to get away, or did not expect to live. Those that obtained bullet-resistant clothing and equipment expected it to protect them (until the police got rifles, they learned)

That is still not a substantial amount of articles. Indeed, there were no articles in that particular post. High-Profile firefights are not an every day occurrence, if you haven't noticed by now.

History, Padawan, learn it you must. The Founding Fathers did not make a tyranny, in which conflicting opinions are obliterated. They welcomed debate, otherwise we would only have one political party instead of the many we have now (with the two main parties, of course)

every police officer is an average citizen with a job to do it is to protect and serve every other citizen who needs protection.

any time my life or any other human life is on the line i would consider it very high profile, and a criminal is a criminal it is the situation that depicts the outcome. if it is articles you want to see google still works pretty good if not go talk to your average veteran officer,and as far as our founding fathers go opinions vary widely on the tyranny of them.....as i stated before i am not against open carry i carry my gun open some myself i just think some people need to be a little less one sided on the whole subject there are goods and bads to both. M.O.S.

[strickj]

Background on "Disarming Attacks" against Police Officers

We are not police officers

[Guest mw.]

We are not police officers

Yes, but a source was asked about Criminals in prison practice disarming techniques.

Bad guys routinely practice dis-arming techniques in while serving time in prison -- often while they are ‘bulking up’ with prison weight lifting equipment

[Guest c.a.s.]

http://www.leaa.org/courtshooting2.html

If you open carry have you already presented it?

Have you noticed, they have an agenda? And no citations in the entire article?

It is also a single source, with a single case.

Presentation is in the hand/s. (depending on your stance)

[Guest c.a.s.]

Your sig phrase "The best vermin target EVER" points to invalid URL

(http://www.jpfo.org/hitlertarget.pdf).

JFYI,

- OS

Dang.

I wonder if JPFO still has it.

It was just an image of hitler over a target.

[Guest mw.]

Have you noticed, they have an agenda? And no citations in the entire article?

It is also a single source, with a single case.

Presentation is in the hand/s. (depending on your stance)

Just about everybody has an agenda.

Googles you friend. If you actually want to know, search.Talk to people that watch prisoners. Some people will put alot of effort into taking the easy way out.

Think about the presentation one for a while.

I'm not against oc but everything you do has a price you have to pay. For me it's not worth it.

[Guest jdavis]

I have been talking with you and read some of your prior posts and if you are really a 16 year old young man you have to be one of the most well rounded 16 year olds i have talked with not afraid to have an oppinion, you seem to have studied your topics , your a good debater and you have a mature attitude with your answers for your age . i have 2 children 1 boy and one girl, i hope they are as well rounded as you are at 16. young men and women like you make all of our futures seem a little brighter. (now if your not really 16 years old then that would be a whole different story.)

[Guest c.a.s.]

Just about everybody has an agenda.

Googles you friend. If you actually want to know, search.Talk to people that watch prisoners. Some people will put alot of effort into taking the easy way out.

Think about the presentation one for a while.

I'm not against oc but everything you do has a price you have to pay. For me it's not worth it.

Quite the coincidence, I'll actually be visiting either Anderson County or Mountainview jail/prison at some point this school year with Criminal Justice II. Would have gone last year, but I ended up in the class with two many clowns who ruined it for the rest of us. They ruined it for ALL CJ I classes, they were that bad.

Methinks their easiest way out is just to turn themselves into the police. Free bed, free food, et cetera. Or to make their guess correctly the first time. But then the Darwin Awards wouldn't be as interesting, would they?

In Isshin Ryu Karate, disarming techniques were done from "presentation", weapon in hand and ready to use. They advised us our best course of action facing a gun is just to give them what they want, because pulling the disarming moves would be a stupid move for any automatics. (it depends on the revolver, but still best to not try it, unless you know it's a single-action with the hammer down) Knife defense and disarming was easier. Somewhat.

Krav Maga is possibly one of, if not THE best self-defense martial art. It's based on real combat with no rules. A kick to the nuts is an actual technique, as is throwing debris in their eyes.

You must excuse my rambling delerium. It is quite late at night. Well, morning.

Davis: Yes I really am 16. Iy's what I get for hanging around the widest range of people, except not too many liberals.

[Guest Phantom6]

In Isshin Ryu Karate, disarming techniques were done from "presentation", weapon in hand and ready to use. They advised us our best course of action facing a gun is just to give them what they want, because pulling the disarming moves would be a stupid move for any automatics. (it depends on the revolver, but still best to not try it, unless you know it's a single-action with the hammer down)

Well, that depends. If it's your life your assailent wants you have nothing to loose by attempting to disarm him. In other words the situation is this- you will definately die if you don't but you may survive if you do. There are a couple of very simple (k. i. s. s.) disarming techniques that with practice can be used effectively regardless of whether the firearm is a semi-auto pistol, a revolver or a long gun. The key word in that last sentance is PRACTICE. That means continual and ongoing just like your shooting should be. It's a muscle memory thing just like shooting. Gross motor skills and leverage. The hand can be quicker than the eye. You are in action while your assailent is in reaction. You are ahead of the curve while he is behind it.

[Guest db99wj]

I prefer conceal carry. I would rather blend in, not stick out if all possible. That is hard to do sometimes with 4 kids! However I treasure that fact that I can open carry, and have in the past and will do sometimes in the future. I don't want that taken away. As far as the point of being a cowboy, depends on the person. Away from the range, I have only seen a few that open carry, and they fit the image of a cowboy or a wannabe, down to the badge, there are ones out there that are not falling under the cowboy sterotype as well.

As far as a bg taking your gun, if they are that close, you have failed the most important thing, to be observant of your surroundings. If I had to chose to be mugged while I was concealed or open, I would rather be concealed, they might have a knife, they might have a gun, but all they think I have is a wallet or keys. Surprise. I have something they weren't expecting and have not planned for.

In regards to the bg targeting the guy that is OC'ing. I don't buy it 100%. Most criminals are waiting for an opportunity to do what they need to do. If you look at most convenient store robberies, they will wait until it is empty, they go in late at night, they will wait until a customer leaves before they do anything. Seems like most bg's fit into this category. Then you have the other kind, that would target you because you OC. The thread on here about the two black guys in Denton, TX. That type has "nothing to lose" they have given up on life, if they die, so be it, if not, so be it. That type won't care if you have a gun or not. They are truely evil and scary.

Edited July 31, 2008 by db99wj

[Guest nraforlife]

I prefer conceal carry. I would rather blend in, not stick out if all possible. That is hard to do sometimes with 4 kids! However I treasure that fact that I can open carry, and have in the past and will do sometimes in the future. I don't want that taken away. As far as the point of being a cowboy, depends on the person. Away from the range, I have only seen a few that open carry, and they fit the image of a cowboy or a wannabe, down to the badge, there are ones out there that are not falling under the cowboy sterotype as well.

As far as a bg taking your gun, if they are that close, you have failed the most important thing, to be observant of your surroundings. If I had to chose to be mugged while I was concealed or open, I would rather be concealed, they might have a knife, they might have a gun, but all they think I have is a wallet or keys. Surprise. I have something they weren't expecting and have not planned for.

In regards to the bg targeting the guy that is OC'ing. I don't buy it 100%. Most criminals are waiting for an opportunity to do what they need to do. If you look at most convenient store robberies, they will wait until it is empty, they go in late at night, they will wait until a customer leaves before they do anything. Seems like most bg's fit into this category. Then you have the other kind, that would target you because you OC. The thread on here about the two black guys in Denton, TX. That type has "nothing to lose" they have given up on life, if they die, so be it, if not, so be it. That type won't care if you have a gun or not. They are truely evil and scary.

+1

[Guest c.a.s.]

Well, that depends. If it's your life your assailent wants you have nothing to loose by attempting to disarm him. In other words the situation is this- you will definately die if you don't but you may survive if you do. There are a couple of very simple (k. i. s. s.) disarming techniques that with practice can be used effectively regardless of whether the firearm is a semi-auto pistol, a revolver or a long gun. The key word in that last sentance is PRACTICE. That means continual and ongoing just like your shooting should be. It's a muscle memory thing just like shooting. Gross motor skills and leverage. The hand can be quicker than the eye. You are in action while your assailent is in reaction. You are ahead of the curve while he is behind it.

IIRC, Krav Maga has those techniques. Don't quote me on that, though.

Our instructor operated under the assumption of a mugging, and tried his best ot not have to address someone with the explicit intent to murder you. I didn't sit in on that class, because it was the ONLY class which had a Children's class going at the same time as the Adult class.

Thinking about it, wouldn't disarming/re-aiming a long gun be easier than with a handgun? Unless it's been cut down, the barrel gives you better leverage, making manipulating it easier.

[Guest Phantom6]

Thinking about it, wouldn't disarming/re-aiming a long gun be easier than with a handgun? Unless it's been cut down, the barrel gives you better leverage, making manipulating it easier.

With a long gun leverage can go both ways. With a handgun the thumb and the wrist are the weak points and are easily over come once you understand the mechanics.

[Guest c.a.s.]

With a long gun leverage can go both ways. With a handgun the thumb and the wrist are the weak points and are easily over come once you understand the mechanics.

And of course there are exceptions to both, such as idiots who hold a longarm in one hand, or others who use a two-handed grip with a pistol. But in the majority you are correct.

Ugh. Back to school Wednesday, off Thursday, and back to school friday before the school year goes into normal schedule from monday on.

[Mike.357]

Ugh. Back to school Wednesday

wish I could be back in high school. Life was seriously easy in those days

[Guest Phantom6]

wish I could be back in high school. Life was seriously easy in those days

No doubt!

[Guest gw2and4]

Aside from the "because we can" argument: why ever open carry in public? To paraphrase the Bible: just because I'm allowed to do something doesn't make it a good idea...

[Guest jackdm3]

Not arguing here, but where/how does it say that?