22 Long Rifle Ammo

[Guest Hans67]

Hello Can I shoot 60 Gram Long Rifle Ammo in my Ruger Model 10/22 Carbine I cannot find any information in my owners manual Thank you for your input

[Oh Shoot]

Hello Can I shoot 60 Gram Long Rifle Ammo in my Ruger Model 10/22 Carbine I cannot find any information in my owners manual Thank you for your input

60 grams would be one hell of a bullet for a .22, over 2 ounces

But yeah, you can shoot 60 grain.

Only real no no for a 10/22 are some of the greater than standard over all length rounds like Stinger in a target model barrel.

- OS

Edited October 4, 2012 by OhShoot

[TnShooter83]

Ruger as with most all other makers uses a 1/16" twist barrel in 22lr which is not the best suited for a 60gr bullet.

Most of the time they will group "OK" in short distances. Move the target out (50 yards+ or sometimes less) and the groups get bigger

and/or keyhole.

They make after market barrels for the 10/22 and it is very easy to change the barrel on one.

At some point Dolomite ( a member here) will surely come along and tell you all you need to know about 60gr in 22lr.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have shot a lot of the 60 grain stuff over the years. It will not stabilie out of your gun but it will not hurt it at all. The bullets will be hitting the target sideways at anything beyond probably 10 yards, maybe even less. Temperature can affect stability as well but no amount of cold is going to make it as accurate as regular ammo. Also, you are going to get a different smell (I like it) from the priming compound. It will also be louder at the port than a normal 22 because the short case doesn't seal well. It will definitely hit really hard for a 22, you can tell it with steel or nuisance animals.

From all my calculations a 12-14 twist barrel is what is needed to have an accurately stabilized 60 grain 22 lr bullet. A 9 twist barrel will overstabilize the 60 grainer and cause accuracy issues. Then why use a 9 twist? Because at the time they decided everybody shooting 223 thought 9 twist is what is needed for a 60 grain bullet.

It has a place though. It is the ONLY ammo I willl carry in a gun that might be the last or only defense against a bad guy. The reason is the velocity is stabile out of everything I have tried it in. The velocity runs about 800 fps and is enough to penetrate 8" of ballistic gelatin. And while it is traveling through it tunbles creating a permanent wound channel that can be as big as .60". And because of the shorter than normal case reliability is increased substantially in a semi auto. I have a Taurus pocket pistol with a 2" barrel and the SSS clocks ~790 fps and it supremely reliable. I have literally shot a few thousand rounds through the gun and as long as it is full power, not subsonic, loads it runs like a sewing machine. The bullets hit sideways at 7 feet but I don't care, it is not a match pistol or something that will be used for hunting. It serves a single purpose and that is as the last line of defense before I grab a pointy stick.

Dolomite

[Guest Nunya]

At some point Dolomite ( a member here) will surely come along and tell you all you need to know about 60gr in 22lr.

Good call.

[Oh Shoot]

.....From all my calculations a 12-14 twist barrel is what is needed to have an accurately stabilized 60 grain 22 lr bullet. A 9 twist barrel will overstabilize the 60 grainer and cause accuracy issues. Then why use a 9 twist? Because at the time they decided everybody shooting 223 thought 9 twist is what is needed for a 60 grain bullet.

Aren't you sort of mixing up .223 and .22LR stuff here, talking about 9 twist?

With .223 seems a 7 twist does well for 55 gr and heavier and a 9 does well for 62gr and lighter, at least out of a 16-20" barrel?

But standard 10/22 like the OP's has 1:16 twist, pretty standard for .22lr barrels. What twist would it need to be to stabilize heavy bullets like 60gr?

Or what am I missing?

- OS

Edited October 7, 2012 by OhShoot

[Dolomite_supafly]

A all lead bullet is shorter than a jacketed bullet at the same weight and because of this it requires less twist. It is the bullet length that determines twist rather than weight but it is easy for most people to remember the weight of a bullet than the length of a patrticular bullet.

For the 22 lr 60 grain SSS 12-14 twist is ideal. Yes a 9 twist 22lr barrel will stabilise the 60 grain bullet but accuracy will suffer. The reason why they chose that rather than a 12-14 twist is because those who were deciding on twist forgot that a all lead bullet is shorter than a jacketed bullet. So they defaulted to the 9 twist which works best with a 60 grain jacketed bullet.

There have been a lot of studies done on the 60 grain 22lr since it was introduced. And every single person has said that 9 twist is not the ideal twist rate.

As a matter of fact 16 twist will stabilize the 60 grain 22 lr bullet but you must be at an extremely high altitude and extremely cold weather to do so. And that is another facet of bullet stability, enviromental conditions.

And a 223 with a 9 twist WILL shoot 77 grain bullets and they will remain stabile past 200 yards. And it will also shoot 33 grain bullets without them slinging the jacket free from the core.

Dolomite

[Oh Shoot]

.....

There have been a lot of studies done on the 60 grain 22lr since it was introduced. And every single person has said that 9 twist is not the ideal twist rate.

That's what keeps throwing me. No .22LR manufacturer puts a 9 twist barrel on their .22LR models as standard, although I see add on barrels with 1:9 that claim to work for 60gr. bullets.

So to get it straight in my pea brain, you're saying that neither 9 or 16 twist in .22lr barrel will effectively stabilize a 60gr bullet, but 12-14 would?

- OS

Edited October 7, 2012 by OhShoot

[Dolomite_supafly]

A 9 twist WILL stabilize the SSS but will cause accuracy issues because it is overstabilized from being spun too fast relative to its length. And when you overstabilise a bullet the circle in which it spins grows with any amount of out of balance. Think of it like a out of balance tire, it no longer rotates on a center axis but off center. And when this happens the groups will grow. But the bullet will hit nose first.

A good indication of ovestabilized bullet is the Super Colibri or CB's out of a 16 twist gun. That short little bullet needs about a 22 twist barrel. But with the 16 twist is will be overstabilized. And we have all shot them and seen them fly in a larger and larger circle on the way to the target. This is what happens with the SSS just not in such a big scale.

A 16 twist will NOT stabilize the bullet because it doesn't impart enough spin on the bullet to remain stabile. Kind of like throwing a football without putting a spin on it. It will hit the target sideways 50% of the time. It will also catch air and fly off in a random direction from time to time as well.

There is no good reason to spin a bullet too fast or too slow for that matter. Get the twist right and the gun will be more accurate.

Dolomite

[Oh Shoot]

A 9 twist WILL stabilize the SSS but will cause accuracy issues because it is overstabilized....

Ah, think I get it, thnx.

All about sweet spot of spin rate, stabilized enough not to keyhole but not over spun to cause centrifugal wobble. I wasn't considering imperfect symmetry of bullet itself, no matter how slight and the increasing error per distance that would cause proportional to the spin rate.

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

That is it.

Every bullet in every caliber has a sweet spot as far as twist rates go. But because we want to shoot various bullets the manufacturers use a twist that will work with most and will be ideal for a few bullets. In that sweet spot the bullets will fly as try as they ever will.

Take 223 for example. I will use weights rather than lengths to simplify things. A 45-55 grain bullet is optimal in the 12 twist range. A 60-70 grain bullet is optimal in 9 twist. And a 70-80 grain is going to be ideal with an 8 twist. Will a 8 twist shoot a 45 grain bullet? Yes but it will not be as accurate as if fired out of a 12 or even 9 twist. Will a 9 twist shoot a 77 grain bullet accurately, you bet.

The reason for the 7 twist was not because of standard bullets. It was to stabilize the tracer which is longer than a standard 62 grain bullet despite being virtually the same weight. I mean the tracer is about 1/4" longer so it needs more twist to stabilize it. It had nothing to do with being able to shoot 77 grain bullets because 9 twist will do it and terminal performance with the 9 twist will be better as well.

Dolomite

[graycrait]

I've been playing around with 60 grain SSS for a few years. I second Dolomite's experience in small semi-autos with the 60grn SSS, it runs those little guns well. In fact the 60 grainers seems to cylce most semiautos well. However, I have had some issues getting them to run reliably in 10/22s with aftermarket barrels and receivers. I have both a 1:9 and a 1:11.25 (made with this twist specifically for 60grain SSS). Fortunately the 1:11.25 runs standard 40 grain ammo better than I would have predicted. I think the 60grain bullet would run nicely in a bolt action .22 if it had a 1:12 twist barrel. In two 10/22s that I typically use this round in I have issues with it "dirtying up" the chamber quickly, making extraction difficult. I shoot 10/22s for fun, when they don't run, it ain't fun no more. In my toggle action 10/22 receiver, a receiver I thought would be ideal for the 60 grain SSS, it is a poor performer, regardless of barrel twist. The lead section of the 60 grain SSS is quite long and soft. The bolt of this receiver badly scores the bullet of the 60SSS on the back stroke, even after radiusing the portion of the bolt that causes the bullet damage. I think I will again try the 60SSS out in my bolt, pumps and tube fed semi-auto .22s to see if one of those guns will run it well without scoring or bending the bullet itself.

I think the 60 grainers would work well in a single shot .22 if the barrel twist was correct for the round. However, in repeaters the soft length of the bullet has to be a concern if the load angle is too severe. The 60 grainer feeds well in both my tube fed bolt guns but the twist rate of the barrel is wrong.

I am close to writing off the 60grain SSS as a novelty round although it is quite powerful. I do know a guy who uses the 60grainer SSS in a revolver to dispatch certain larger game he has captured using head shots. Maybe this is the 60grainers best venue, up close and personal handgun use.

[BJB]

WOW, i need another cup of coffee and read that again.

[graycrait]

Bottom line is unless you have a 1:12 twist barrel at this altitude the 60 grainer out of your typical 1:16 twist barrel is iffy at best. I was reading that at 70 degrees at 6,000 ft the 60 grainer is more stable out of the 1:16 twist barrel.

Some of my 1:16 twist rifles shoot the 60 grainers more accurately longer than others. I'll have to look at how stable the 60 grainer is at different distances out of 1:16 barrels that seem to shoot it OK.

I don't think the 60 grainer can hurt a semi-auto due to its combination of heavy and slow 950fps. I've shot it in many semis with no ill effect.