Be a producer to survive a downturn

[Guest USMC 2013]

By downturn I mean this. A SHTF scenario that disrupts regular services, commerce, law enforcement, etc... but not the end of the world. Think this, an event happens that will take 10'ish years to rebuild from.

You're not going to be able to store enough of anything you and your family need to last 10 years unless you're Prepper Billionaire Joe. I'm just regular Joe, so that's not me.

Being able to produce will get you through and by produce I mean make/grow something others need. This will have to be something you have going now though, think something small that you can ramp up later if needed. For example, say you own a house on an acre lot and have a small garden. No grocery store and you're going to need to be planting that entire acre.

Another example, you make beer, but just enough to enjoy now and again for self and a couple friends. SHTF, now take the extra you've been storing away, ramp up production and have beer for sale.

Goats, chickens, rabbits, pigeons, etc... whatever it is you do now that you can increase your production of when needed. If you're not doing it now and learning the ropes, storing what you need to keep doing it, finding alternate ways to feed your stock now or figuring how you're going to fertilize your crops w/o Home Depot now you're going to be hurting if SHTF.

I posted this because I see all the threads about storing silver (smart), storing food (smart) and having a store of ammo and your guns (smart too), but realistically that's only going to last so long. The people that can produce something needed are going to have the best chances of lasting, and suffering less while doing so, while SGBT. (Sh*t Gets Back on Track). Just my two cents and soap box thread,

Joe

[xRUSTYx]

Good post Joe ...

No doubt, a special *skill* will be needed if/when a TEOTWAWKI event happens.

Having stores & cache's of things will only last so long.

Livestock, Farming, Leatherworking, Gunsmith, Blacksmith, clothes making, etc...

A skill will allow for bartering (service for sevice) and will put food on the table should you need it.

[Caster]

THose special skills; I have been harping about for years. WTSHTF people will clan together. A community of survivors will have no room for the lazy, infirm or charity cases. That means you dang well better be able to provide a skill, product or service that is essential to the community's continued stability or you will be shut out.

LEarn as much as possible people. One day, it may feed your starving children.

[gjohnsoniv]

Well I can do blacksmithing, welding, leatherwork, and woodwork. I think I'll be alright.

[Spots]

I'm a blacksmith, farmer, fabricator, and have military experince. My dad is also a smith, farmer, logger, and farm raised man who knows alot about everything, or so it seems. Weather grow a large 3 acre garden using draft animals, not tractors. We have land to support more livestock than our current 4 or 5 head of cattle, plus we could triple our garden and output very easily. We don't stock pile, my family has been and would be self sufficent without any outside help what so ever. We have forty acres of good land that is easily defended by the 4 grown men in my family

Oh and to anyone who plans to "bug out" to the mountains. As Ive told countless other preppers. Remeber those mountains are already occupied, and we have one of the most clanish cultures in the world in Appalachia. Strangers will not be welcomed, so make sure to plan for a spefic area, either unoccipyed or owned.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Spots

[Caster]

Oh and to anyone who plans to "bug out" to the mountains. As Ive told countless other preppers. Remeber those mountains are already occupied, and we have one of the most clanish cultures in the world in Appalachia. Strangers will not be welcomed, so make sure to plan for a spefic area, either unoccipyed or owned.

By God you said a mouth full ole buddy. That's why 95% of bug out plans are a joke. THere's going to be a lot of couch commandos bleeding out in the holler when they take to the hills.

[enfield]

Being somewhat old and infirm, I guess I'll have no value.

I'm probably too tough to eat . . . .

[Caster]

Being somewhat old and infirm, I guess I'll have no value.

I'm probably too tough to eat . . . .

Ehhh, 'fore you say that....what do you KNOW. Remember "The Postman"? THe old dude working in the shed amongst all those young people? When asked how is it that you're here? He replied...Meh, I know things.

[mootw]

One word: SILVER

[jtmaze]

Several friends and family members already have a list of skills and people that fill those skills. Mechanic, fabricator/machinists, gardner, canner, medic, gunsmith, ect. We actually have 3 relocation spots across the country. Rural west tn(owned), about 100 acres in western MI(owned and resided on), 600 acres in sw Texas(owned), 100 acres in Montana. I understand reaching some of these places will take months but you have to do what you have to do.

JTM

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Caster]

One word: SILVER

Some more words: You'll starve.

In a full on collapse silver will be worthless. YOu can't eat it, it's not medicinal [in it's current state of matter anyway], it won't defend you. Basically, unless there's an economy of some sort, it's scrap metal. Non perishable foods, medical supplies, ammo, alcohol, tools and fuel are much better and will ALWAYS have value.

[Garufa]

These weekly scenarios always amuse me. Like everyone thinks everyone else is going to be nice and polite and allow you to carry on with what you have and what they don't.

[Dolomite_supafly]

There are plenty of people who plan on bugging out and I have always wondered where they plan on going. Most of them say they plan to head to the hills which is a huge problem because there are already people in those hills living there right now. And those people are going to defend their location or at least I know I will. And don't expect others to openly welcome a large group of people. I know I won't welcome anyone unless they bring a significant skill to the group and honestly I can't imagine what that skill might be that isn't already covered. There are less than 5 people that will be invited in and all others will be turned away with an overwhelming amount of force.

I will say this to all of those planning on bugging out to the hills. I will defend what is mine, including land, from any squatters or looters. After all if you show up and try to take what isn't yours you are a thief. That includes wild game, plants or anything on my property even if I do not need it or not using it that stuff is still mine. I may have more than I need to survive but I will not share any of it with complete strangers. I have made preparations to ensure my survivability and I would be a fool to give any of it up to complete strangers.

It takes a lot of land to support a person year around. An acre or two isn't going to cut it. It will likely take 10's of acres per person. A person should never rely on someone else when it comes to their survival. No one is going to care more about you than you.

And what makes the average person think they are going to make it ouf of a population center before the other 50% of the other people leaving the cities clog the roadways? What is going to happen is the highways are going to clog like Rita/ Katrina leaving leaving them stranded and with the option of walking to the "hills" or walking back to the cities. And when you start walking you are going to be able to carry far less than what you left with or even left behind.

Bugging in has some real advantages and if I lived in a city I would, without a doubt, stay put. First is you already have everything you are going to have without the need to transport it to a new location. You can call for help from those around you while in a remote location you cannot call for help. Another big advantage is you know the area. You also know who friend and who foe is or at least have a good idea. Travelling exposes you to more dangers. It is also easier to defend a building or high rise than a tent in the woods.Those buildings are going to protect you from the elements and be easier to keep warm in and survive in for the average person especially those used to living in the city. Food, at least initially, will be easier to come by in the cities as well as potable water. There are literally a few weeks worth of potable water in your water heater and toilet bowls and that is if you don't ration. With rain gutters, collecting water is much easier too. And as disgusting as it might sound cities have tons of rodents that can be harvested for food. If any type of relief or supplies is handed out it is going to be in the population centers first.

The average person is going to have a far easier time surviving in the city than in the "hills".

But if you must bug out and have any hope of bugging out you must be packed and ready to go in a moments notice. Vehicles have to ALWAYS have the gas needed to make it to that location. When the SHTF gas will be gone within minutes unless you are at the pumps pumping your gas as it takes place.

You need to also realize that there are going to be a lot more people than just you heading to a bug out location. This is going to clog the roadways like we saw during Rita/Katrina. The only way you might get a head start is if you are in a position to get some notice, like LE, emergency services or the government would get to prepare. Otherwise it is going to be a race to get out and if you are not in the lead you will find yourself stuck in the rear. And once you are stuck you and your stuff become vulnerable to roaming bands of thugs set on taking your stuff for themselves. And honestly it would be easy pickings.

As far as your bug out location you need to own the property you plan to go to. This can give you a little bit of a delay in the squatters that will show up. And once there the squatters are not going to readily leave even if you tell them you own the property. If your bug out location is "public lands" you are not going to be the first there, it will be like winning the lottery if you are. You are going to find yourself surrounded by thousands of others who have the same plan.

Most people don't realize that best case scenario crops will be edible in 4 months. If it happened today we are looking at close to a year before crops can begin to be harvested. So that means you are going to have to transport that much food because you are not going to be able to kill a years worth of food with everyone else trying to do the same thing.

And as much as I hate to say it in order to survive people must loose their conscience and compassion. They must be willing to turn those less fortunate away unless they bring a substantial advantage to the group.

People have this grand illusion that they are going to be able to find virgin land to live off of. Look around, how much public land do you see? And of that how much is going to be free for the taking, not much if any, by the time they make it?

Dolomite

[Guest brentt]

Nicely put Dolomite. I think you made a few people sad and burst a few bubbles. Lol. At least now they know the truth and can prepare. You might have even saved a few lives from being robbed, raped ,and stabbed to death on the clustered highways ( which would most likely happen). If you do decide to bug out, try to stay off the main road. Watch out for traps ( people pretending to need help). Take stuff to trade ( blankets, alcohol, ammo etc.) Make a bug out bag for the young kids but keep it light, like a comforting teddy bear or toy, extra socks and most important a family photo with everyones name and old address on back in case you get seperated. If you carry a map, dont circle caches and bug out locations. If anyone finds it its just a map for free ####. Just a few bug out tips. Good luck.

[Spots]

I'm am a carrying person, and would give the shirt off my back to someone in need. Now if mine or my familys survival was at stake I would turn people away, and if needed, kill without consiensce if need be to help my family survive. We have 8 adults and 4 kids in our group everyone has grown up farming, hunting, raising live stock, etc. We have 40 acres under fence with limited access where our houses are, plu another 120 acres of well taken care of fenced property less than a mile away, also limited access gated and fenced, with manual wells buckets, springs, and natural as well as family grown food aources. I gotta a good feeling we can survive without anyone elses help.

[gun sane]

Well, since I have a body that women love and men fear, I should do alright.

Actually, I'm too old to run. The wife (who's a nurse) and I are going to stay put and do what we can with what we've put away. But whatever happens, we'll trust in the Lord to look out for us, as he's done all of our lives. And the worst thing that can happen to us is the best thing.

[Guest USMC 2013]

Dolomite made some great points and I would like to expound on one.

"Most people don't realize that best case scenario crops will be edible in 4 months. If it happened today we are looking at close to a year before crops can begin to be harvested."

This is very true! Start growing now! If you're soil is unworked you won't be able to get the soil amendments needed to make the soil worth growing in when SHTF.

Also,have 3+ months (as much as you can afford) of food strores packed away to get you to your ramped upped gardening stage. Have some rabbits and chickens!

Have sprouting seeds. You can sprout quite a few seeds and have INCREDIBLY healthy, nutrient dense greens in 7 days!!! Start sprouting now to increase your health and to learn how and have a couple 5g buckets of seed put aside for SHTF.

Last thing, consider this, it takes 4,000sqft to grow enough food for one person for one year on a vegan diet. That's intensly planted and getting every ounce of production out of that 4,000sqft. Using rabbits or poultry in a system and growing food you can feed one person for a year on 2,800sqft. Figure out the numbers with what you have and ask yourself, Can I feed my family for a year with no outside inputs?

(I paraphrased from John Jeavons book for the growing spaces).

Joe

[Spots]

Last thing, consider this, it takes 4,000sqft to grow enough food for one person for one year on a vegan diet. That's intensly planted and getting every ounce of production out of that 4,000sqft. Using rabbits or poultry in a system and growing food you can feed one person for a year on 2,800sqft. Figure out the numbers with what you have and ask yourself, Can I feed my family for a year with no outside inputs?

(I paraphrased from John Jeavons book for the growing spaces).

Joe

Are you sure on those number of people per square ft? That would work out to 10+ people per acre even on a vegan diet. 15 if supplemented. Our current garden is well maintained and grown with the knowledge and care of 150+ yrs of East TN farming tradition on home land, and if it was less than the three acres we have now we wouldn't be completely self sufficient on food. We have 8 adults and four kids, and from our experince Id say 4-5 people an acre is gonna be more realistic if your knowledgeable, and do alot of canning with rabbits, chickens, hogs, cows, and wild game to supplement. A person just starting out would be lucky to support more than one or two people per acre without prior knowledge and setup.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Spots

[gjohnsoniv]

For those people in the city, the Square Foot Garden might be a concept you should look into.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

People are spoiled and lack a lot of survival skills..they will find out that growing stuff and hunting is not a easy for some people to do...

I know for a fact that I cant grow veggies..I tried...and I dont like killing animals..not even for food..

I prolly be one of the.first casualties..and prolly get eaten by Zombies or my dogs..lol

I.think some.people think it will be.like.this huge hippy commune where people share and barter for stuff..when in reality it will be more like aftermath Chernobyl and THE ROAD...

Edited September 29, 2012 by Sour Kraut

[Spots]

For those people in the city, the Square Foot Garden might be a concept you should look into.

Where can I read into this concept?

[mikegideon]

Being somewhat old and infirm, I guess I'll have no value.

I'm probably too tough to eat . . . .

If we have to recreate the word from scratch, somebody is gonna have to know the math. I think you'll be fine .

[Dolomite_supafly]

Dolomite made some great points and I would like to expound on one.

"Most people don't realize that best case scenario crops will be edible in 4 months. If it happened today we are looking at close to a year before crops can begin to be harvested."

This is very true! Start growing now! If you're soil is unworked you won't be able to get the soil amendments needed to make the soil worth growing in when SHTF.

Also,have 3+ months (as much as you can afford) of food strores packed away to get you to your ramped upped gardening stage. Have some rabbits and chickens!

Have sprouting seeds. You can sprout quite a few seeds and have INCREDIBLY healthy, nutrient dense greens in 7 days!!! Start sprouting now to increase your health and to learn how and have a couple 5g buckets of seed put aside for SHTF.

Last thing, consider this, it takes 4,000sqft to grow enough food for one person for one year on a vegan diet. That's intensly planted and getting every ounce of production out of that 4,000sqft. Using rabbits or poultry in a system and growing food you can feed one person for a year on 2,800sqft. Figure out the numbers with what you have and ask yourself, Can I feed my family for a year with no outside inputs?

(I paraphrased from John Jeavons book for the growing spaces).

Joe

Please provide more information. I would like to know what kinds of plants you are talking about that is edible in 7 days.

As far as cost. You can buy enough food for one person for 90 days for under $50. I know it sucks but beans and rice is cheap and plentiful. You can also suppliment the beans with meat you gather. People probably think I am crazy but our cats bring enough meat to our doorstep every day that it would definitely help us survive. And a single deer would feed us for a few months as long as we could turn it into jerky for long term storage before it spoils.

Dolomite

[gjohnsoniv]

Where can I read into this concept?

Look it online. If not I'll bring you the book on it at the October meet.

Also just found out that the author would be in our store today about 5:30 if you would like to come by and hear about the system, talk to him, etc.

Emery's 5 and 10

4014 Chapman Highway, Knoxville, TN 37920.

Mainly what it is Spots, is making a raised bed and then creating the "perfect soil." From there it's planting things that mutually benefit one another like corn and beans, like how the indians planted things. Interesting concept really, and can produce a lot as well.

Edited September 29, 2012 by gjohnsoniv

[Guest USMC 2013]

Are you sure on those number of people per square ft? That would work out to 10+ people per acre even on a vegan diet. 15 if supplemented. Our current garden is well maintained and grown with the knowledge and care of 150+ yrs of East TN farming tradition on home land, and if it was less than the three acres we have now we wouldn't be completely self sufficient on food. We have 8 adults and four kids, and from our experince Id say 4-5 people an acre is gonna be more realistic if your knowledgeable, and do alot of canning with rabbits, chickens, hogs, cows, and wild game to supplement. A person just starting out would be lucky to support more than one or two people per acre without prior knowledge and setup.

The book is called, Grow More Vegtables, by John Jeavons. I also got this information from Marjory Wildcraft's DVD, Backyard Food Production. Both more have references in my opinion.

When Jeavons says you can grow enough calories for a vegan diet on 4,000 sqft do not think tractor and plow agriculture. We're talking about bio-intensive growing, companion planting and year around crops. Intense is the key word, no space wasted and using very well taken care of soil.

You're 100% right about someone starting out and not having prior knowledge and at least somethings already growing. That's my exact point, be doing it now. Many in this region of the country are more self reliant by nature, have gardens, can and hunt. Trust me, it's not like that on the left and right...

Joe