Reloading. Saiga 308.

[vujade]

Hi. Does anyone here reload for a Saiga 308 (16 inch barrel)?

Best groups I can manage now (6x scope) with 150 core loct is about 4-5 inches at 100 (5 shot groups); I'm wondering what some careful handloads can do.

I'm thinking of using either Varget, Long Range Match surplus powder (says to use RL 15 load data) or WC846 (says to use BLC(2) data).

I'm reading that lighter bullets (150 grain) is best. If anyone has some real experience, please share. Thank you,

[Dolomite_supafly]

Try the loads that worked well in your Savage. There are known good loads that work well in a lot of guns, like FGMM, and you might get lucky and your Savage loads work in your Saiga as well.

I would figure out what twist the barrel is then load the heaviest bullet it will stabilize. 168 or 175 should work well.

Dolomite

[Jonnin]

That group at 100 sounds kind of rough for a 308. All I can say is try a shotgun approach to start out, try a variety of bullet weights and mess around at random until you hit on something that works better.

[vujade]

yeah. i'll just do a OCW test (thanks for the tip Dolomite); sometimes there isn't a shortcut and that's best.

[vujade]

That group at 100 sounds kind of rough for a 308. All I can say is try a shotgun approach to start out, try a variety of bullet weights and mess around at random until you hit on something that works better.

yeah, but it is an AK platform and it was before a conversion. There is a much nicer trigger now so I hope that helps. (and hand-loading).

[Jonnin]

I know nothing about that conversion, but is the barrel 7.62? Would a .311 bullet work better or be too fat?

[Hershmeister]

I know nothing about that conversion, but is the barrel 7.62? Would a .311 bullet work better or be too fat?

That would be dangerous!

[RED333]

I have a Saiga 308 with the 16" barrel that likes anything factory loaded, but it does not shot steel case well.

It will cycle the steel but groups are all over the place.

With brass Mil surplus it will shoot 3 inch groups well, at 100 yrds. I aint no "sharp shooter"

and dont worry about "one ragged" hole, hitting a steel 12" round plate at

300 yrds is to much fun.

I should say I shoot 10 rounds as fast as I can(less than 1 min) and use that as

a test of grouping

That would be dangerous!

If you slug the barrel and find it is the right size it would be OK to shoot .311.

A cast lead boolit would shoot fine in the right barrel.

Edited September 28, 2012 by RED333

[atlas3025]

Yeah, I am not familiar with the conversions either...do they take a regular 7.62 x 39 barrel and enlarge the chamber for 308? If that is the case, the bore is probably a little large for .308 bullets because AK 7.62 x 39 bullets are .311 diameter IIRC. But please, don't listen to me on that point as I am purely speculating and no expert at all.

On 308 loads, I have had great success with 168 SMK's over 46grs of varget in my SCAR. At 100 yards I am getting 5 shot one inch groups out of it pretty routinely, usually with 3 shot clovers among them, and that is metering the powder.

[Jonnin]

That would be dangerous!

Could be. Its not something you DO without checking it out first, that would certainly be a bit risky, but it may be an angle to investigate.

[Caster]

That would be dangerous!

ONLY with a jacketed bullet. No danger at all with cast. Even if you are not casting, you need to know the bore diameter. if it's oversize, you're wasting materials trying the wrong size bullet. I have seen one or two of these with a .3095-.310 bore and a jacketed bullet made for .308 is a waste. In that case a .311 bullet would work very well. Do you intend to cast for it? I have a mold that would probably work quite well for that. Red333 can give you more definitive words on that once he's done a bit more leg work with his.

The bore on any second world country made rifle needs to be checked. Their machining skills, tools and quality control is not what 1st world countries would call "up to standard"

[RED333]

I am waiting on some cerrosafe to cast my bore and barrell to get a reading on what the true correct size is.

When I get that info I will let yall know.

Edited September 28, 2012 by RED333

[Caster]

I am waiting on some cerrosafe to cast my bore and barrell to get a reading on what the true correct size is.

When I get that info I will let yall know.

ppfffttt! Look at you! Trying to be all professional er sumthin'

[Caster]

Red brings up a good point though with the cerrosafe. When it comes to cast bullets, the bore diameter need not be known [though it's always good to know!] because he's going to have a chamber cast. He can accurately put a micrometer to throat and fill it accordingly. Doesn't matter what the bore diameter is on his rifle if the [cast] bullet fits the throat, it will fire. Many times people get leading even though their bullet is over bore diameter. They can't figure why. An especially loose throat will let gas escape enough to have problems. It's GOT to seal.

Start a new thread over in the TGO reloaders section so we don't I'm interested in your progress on this one Red333.

[vujade]

sorry guys. I should have clarified. What I meant by converting was replacing/moving the trigger forward. The stock Saigas are set in 'sporting' configuration with a 'traditional' stock and the trigger back towards the buttstock. Folks then move the trigger forward (and effectively replacing the gosh-awful 'trigger that goes up' of the 308) and adding a pistol grip.

This is what it looks like converted:

I made some rounds with Varget (google showed me a few threads where folks found luck around the 42-43 mark (which is also a sweet spot for my Savage 10). Seated the bullet a little lower so that it fits in the magazine. When I shot heavier factory bullets (175 grain), the groups were all over the place so I'll stick to something lighter like 150 FMJs. I'll report on how it goes!

Edited September 28, 2012 by vujade

[Caster]

Try the other side of the spectrum and maybe load up some 125g bullets. I've had excellent luck with Sierra 125's in the past.

[vujade]

It took a while but finally made it to the range. Here are my results:

I loaded up about 20 rounds of 308 on PPU brass (5 times fired; I knew this was going to hurt the brass and decided to use the ones that may be on the their last life anyway). 150 grain Hornada FMJ. OAL 2.75. 41 to 43 grains (small test) of Varget in .5 increments. My regular CCI 200 primers.

I tested a few rounds by manually cycling and found that they moved ever so slightly. I thus put a very light factory crimp using the Lee crimp die. Very slight, just enough until it stopped moving when I reloaded some dummies from the magazine.

I placed targets at 50 and 100 yards. A single 1 inch target per target page. I fired 5 shots with Brown Bear factory ammo to sight in. (no pics) but it was essentially a 3 and a inch group; all the shots on the 8x11 paper. I fired another couple of 3 shot groups. There was one flyer that opened it up to 5 inches. The other was pretty good right at 3 inches.

I then started to fire the carefully hand-loaded ammunition at the 100 yard targets. They all were on paper but I couldn't best the Russian factory ammo's 3-4 inch groups; tying them best. There was no rhyme or reason or pattern on which loads were better; they were all just spread out on the paper. Frustrated, I used the last 2 sets of hand loads and fired at 50 yards (only had 42.5 and 43 grains left as I had extras of those. I compared them with PPU 168 grain "match" ammo and the same ole Russian 145 grainers:

(the heavier bullets (PPU) didn't do too well. A non-inspiring 2.503 inch group @ 50 yards. The Russian Brown Bear did 1.6 inches @ 50. 42.5 grains of Varget load: 1.018 inches @ 50. 43.0 grains of Varget load: 1.222 inches @ 50.)

The handloads did do better at 50. If you extrapolate those numbers, they could possible translate to a little over 2 inches at 100? I'll have to do something about getting a better checkweld; it was horrible trying to maintain a good shooting position with the rifle's stock/optics.

But, this is why I may not be reloading for this 308: As I imagined, it was tough on the brass. I read about folks putting some tape on the dust cover; I may try that. But for just marginally better performance, I may just stick to the cheap Russian factory ammo and not worry about meticulous handloading for such a brutish weapon. (I still love the Saiga, just not for precise work)