More gang activity

[Tennjed]

Like Pot without THC....

Dave

Exacetly, both Alcohol and Pot are consumed primarly for the affect.

[DaveS]

For ya'lls reading pleasure....

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm

Dave

[Tennjed]

For you reading pleasure. (from the center of diseasse control)

http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm

[Sam1]

lol this is like watching a digital pugil stick battle

[Tennjed]

lol this is like watching a digital pugil stick battle

I have no idea what that is, but i am sure it is not a good thing

[DaveS]

I have some neighbors that I swear are Cheech and Chong...I do not promote the use of Pot...

Dave S

Edited October 3, 2012 by DaveS

[RobertNashville]

WOW, you stated most people drink for the taste? Where is YOUR data to back up that claim? Common sense will tell you alcohol is as popular as it is because of the effect. You can make all-encompassing, unsopported assertions but others can't. You can do drugs, but pot smokers can't. WOW

In this case, "common sense" is wrong. I've also seen little common sense in any of the arguments you've presented. The one real consistency you've shown in this thread is what appears to be your personal hatred of alcohol, showing little or no ability to acknowledge that the vast majority of people who use alcohol do so responsibly and without any negative effects at all...it is the onderwhelming minority of people who actually experience the harmful effects of alcohol abusers/alcoholics.

Do some people drink for the effect? Of course they do and I never said otherwise.

Is the effect of alcohol the number one reason why people drink? No; except, perhaps for those who are or are on their way to be part of the minority who abuse alcohol but for most people it is not the primary reason people drink alcohol.

Why Do People Drink Alcohol?

No matter where you go, you are likely to notice there is always alcohol around in a social setting. This is common place. Many homes today have bars, others have at least a couple of bottles on hand for their own use or to make sure they can put together drinks when company shows up. Our culture has fast become a real ‘drinking culture’.

But, For What Reasons Do People Drink Alcohol?

Research has shown that the number one answer to this question is what you probably would expect, socialization. Many people drink as their way to fit in with others. It often boosts their confidence and helps reduce stresses they may usually have in a social setting.

The next highest reason many people drink is because they like the taste [emphasis mine). Be it someone with a love for beer or the many mixed drinks available, people do simply enjoy the taste of these beverages.

Next, people drink to relax, or feel at ease. One of the problems with this is that many people get used to feeling at ease and relaxed and start to rely on alcohol to make them feel that way on a daily basis. At this point, the reliance on alcohol can eventually turn into an addiction which can lead to destructive behaviors and health problems.

To get a buzz or to simply to “get drunk†are the next reasons many people like to drink, followed by drinking out of peer pressure. The occurrence of peer pressure to drink can be common place in today’s youth society.

[http://www.alcohol-stuff.co.uk/ ]

A lot of research has been done to find and explore the reason why people drink alcohol. From research conducted in the Netherlands among 15 to 25 year-olds, the following answers came up:

• Sociability (71%)
  
• Like the taste (51%)
  
• Feel at ease (12%)
  
• Get intoxicated (6%)
  
• Get drunk (2%)
  
• Because everybody does it (6%)
  
• To forget problems (0%)
  

Alcohol gets risky when you need more to feel good. If you can't do that anymore on your own, and you use the alcohol for it, at a certain point you run the risk of starting to drink more and more each time to still feel the effects. This can be the beginning of an addiction. If you drink to feel good, you should ask yourself if you can also feel at ease without alcohol.

web4health.info

[Tennjed]

So according to your YOUR link 2 of the 3 (and the #1) reasons people drink is for the effect. Boost confidence (#1) and relaxation (#3) to relax. You are just proving my point. I appreciate your research it saved me the trouble. The main reason people drink is the effect. Same with pot. People drink because it makes them feel good. People smoke pot because it makes them feel good. Do most people drink to the point they cause problems to others, no. Do most people smoke pot to the point it causes problems to others, no. But the people that drink to excess typically are at a bigger risk to harm others than people that smoke pot to excess.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Tennjed

[RobertNashville]

So according to your YOUR link 2 of the 3 (and the #1) reasons people drink is for the effect. Boost confidence (#1) and relaxation (#3) to relax. You are just proving my point. I appreciate your research it saved me the trouble. The main reason people drink is the effect. Same with pot. People drink because it makes them feel good. People smoke pot because it makes them feel good. Do most people drink to the point they cause problems to others, no. Do most people smoke pot to the point it causes problems to others, no. But the people that drink to excess typically are at a bigger risk to harm others than people that smoke pot to excess.

Obviously, you are reading different sources than I quoted.

Both sources I quoted list taste as the number two reason for drinking alcohol...drinking for the effect is third.

Now, I don't know where you went to school but where I went to school I was taught that a second-place reason is higher than a third place reason.

Your assertion that people who drink to excess are at a bigger risk to harm others is laughable... please feel free to share the data you must have that compares and contrasts the potential risk of alcohol abuse and harm to others versus the potential risk of pot abuse and risk of harm to others.

However, once again, I suspect your wild statement is just a reflection of your personal hatred for alcohol with no real basis in fact.

[RobertNashville]

...

Edited October 3, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Tennjed]

Obviously, you are reading different sources than I quoted.

Both sources I quoted list taste as the number two reason for drinking alcohol...drinking for the effect is third.

Now, I don't know where you went to school but where I went to school I was taught that a second-place reason is higher than a third place reason.

Your assertion that people who drink to excess are at a bigger risk to harm others is laughable... please feel free to share the data you must have that compares and contrasts the potential risk of alcohol abuse and harm to others versus the potential risk of pot abuse and risk of harm to others.

However, once again, I suspect your wild statement is just a reflection of your personal hatred for alcohol with no real basis in fact.

Ok, first off I want to say I respect your opinion. I think both of us are getting a little personal with post and I rather keep it civil, so I want to apologize if I have offended you.

That being said, both of your links stated social as the # 1. The social aspect is directly from the effect. Your first link even proves it by saying it raises confidence and relaxes. That is effect, no other way to view it.

The point about behavior that is harmful to other, I have posted and it is widely documented that most violent crimes involve alcohol. Most rapes involve alcohol. Most domestic violence involves alcohol. One third of all murders involve alcohol. Those are not something I dreamed, those are facts. The number of deaths attributed to drunk driving is staggering. Again, I want to avoid offending and being a smart **s, but alcohol is commonly referred to as liquid courage. It raises people's courage and leads them to do things they would not normally do. That may be ask someone to a dance, pick a fight at a bar, or rob a store.

[RobertNashville]

Drinking to be social and drinking for the effect of the alcohol are two separate things Which is why the two sources I cited list them separately.

They are not equal. They are not interchangeable. They are not the same things.

Drinking alcohol for the effect of the alcohol is third and it's third behind Drinking for the taste.

[RobertNashville]

As to the risk of harm to others because of the abuse of alcohol being greater than the risk of harm to others because of abuse of marijuana, I am not and I have not disputed the fact that alcohol abuse causes a lot of problems and harm to others. What I asked you to substantiate was your assertion that the risk of harm to others because of the abuse of alcohol is greater than the risk of harm to others because of the abuse of smoking pot. Citing data about alcohol abuse and harm to others Is only half of that equation. Unless you can document the other half your assertion is meaningless.

[Tennjed]

As to the risk of harm to others because of the abuse of alcohol being greater than the risk of harm to others because of abuse of marijuana, I am not and I have not disputed the fact that alcohol abuse causes a lot of problems and harm to others. What I asked you to substantiate was your assertion that the risk of harm to others because of the abuse of alcohol is greater than the risk of harm to others because of the abuse of smoking pot. Citing data about alcohol abuse and harm to others Is only half of that equation. Unless you can document the other half your assertion is meaningless.

It does not take much looking to prove it. From the University of Washington Alcohol and Drug abuse center

Does smoking marijuana cause aggression?

In general, after using marijuana a person experiences a sedating effect, which makes the drug less likely to cause violence in users than other substances such as alcohol and stimulants (e.g., amphetamines and cocaine).

http://adai.washingt...gression.htmthe

the link does state it can cause the behavior, but it is less likely.

As for your first point, how can a beer or whiskey caise confidence and reduce stress without it being an effect of the alcohol. Your first link clearly states that it is social because it raises confidence and reduces stress. That is what you call effect

Edited October 3, 2012 by Tennjed

[TrickyNicky]

Unless you can document the other half your assertion is meaningless.

From the 1972 Shafer Commision on the dangers of "marihuana" as they spell it.

"Some users commit crimes more frequently than non-users not because they use marihuana but because they happen to be the kinds of people who would be expected to have a higher crime rate, wholly apart from the use of marihuana. In most cases, the difference in crime rates between users and non-users are dependent not on marihuana use per se but on other factors."

Remember this is from the government funded project with the end goal to prove once and for all how dangerous pot was/is.

Now a bit from a book on the subject co wrote between John Morgan ( Professor of Pharmacology at City University of NY Medical School and Adjunct Prof at Mount Sinai School of medicine. Widely published in numerous medical journals.)

And Lynn Zimmer, a Professor of Sociology at Queens college, University NY. She is also a highly published author in her field.

On the criminal dangers of marihuana.

"Every serious scholar and government commission examining the relationship between marijuana use and crime has reached the same conclusion: marijuana does not cause crime. The vast majority of marijuana users do not commit crimes other than the crime of possessing marihuana.

How bout a bit if info on the topic of highway safety?

"There is no compelling evidence that marijuana contributes substantially to traffic accidents and fatalities. At some doses, marijuana affects perception and psychomotor performance which could affect driving ability. However, in driving, marijuana produces little or no car-handling impairment- consistently less than that produced by low to moderate doses of alcohol."

"Surveys of fatally injured drivers show that when THC is detected in the blood, alcohol is almost always detected as well."

[RobertNashville]

From the 1972 Shafer Commision on the dangers of "marihuana" as they spell it.

"Some users commit crimes more frequently than non-users not because they use marihuana but because they happen to be the kinds of people who would be expected to have a higher crime rate, wholly apart from the use of marihuana. In most cases, the difference in crime rates between users and non-users are dependent not on marihuana use per se but on other factors."

Remember this is from the government funded project with the end goal to prove once and for all how dangerous pot was/is.

Now a bit from a book on the subject co wrote between John Morgan ( Professor of Pharmacology at City University of NY Medical School and Adjunct Prof at Mount Sinai School of medicine. Widely published in numerous medical journals.)

And Lynn Zimmer, a Professor of Sociology at Queens college, University NY. She is also a highly published author in her field.

On the criminal dangers of marihuana.

"Every serious scholar and government commission examining the relationship between marijuana use and crime has reached the same conclusion: marijuana does not cause crime. The vast majority of marijuana users do not commit crimes other than the crime of possessing marihuana.

How bout a bit if info on the topic of highway safety?

"There is no compelling evidence that marijuana contributes substantially to traffic accidents and fatalities. At some doses, marijuana affects perception and psychomotor performance which could affect driving ability. However, in driving, marijuana produces little or no car-handling impairment- consistently less than that produced by low to moderate doses of alcohol."

"Surveys of fatally injured drivers show that when THC is detected in the blood, alcohol is almost always detected as well."

Good sources although I'm not sure if they prove the original assertion that alcohol presents a greater risk of "harm" to others than does marijuana - I'm not and as far as I know, no one is saying that those who misuse alcohol...drink to drunkenness, etc., can't or don't cause harm to others; clearly they do. However, I think it equally clear that misuse of either carries a risk of harm to others. But I'm not sure I see support for the assertion that alcohol presents a "greater risk of harm".

I would suggest that if your mind is screwed up because you are using drugs...any drugs (legal, illegal, prescription, OTC, etc., etc.)...you present a risk of harm to both yourself and to others...what "drug" is involved is immaterial and to claim that alcohol carries a greater risk of harm than pot is about as useful as arguing how many grains of sand is in the ocean. If nothing else, the data seems to show that, strictly looking a the "high" from alcohol and the "high" from pot, they two are relatively equal in effect.

For me the difference between the two is pretty easy to quantify. Other than those who claim that marijuana has medicinal uses (a claim that is at best disputed by many physicians); the only significant use for pot is to get high. While getting "high" is one use of alcohol, people use alcohol for a variety of reasons - getting "high" isn't even the primary reason.

Some here clearly have an irrational fear and loathing of alcohol. That's okay; but that's a lousy basis on which to propose changes to public policy. Most people use alcohol responsibly and cause no harm to anyone, including themselves....I'm sure that's generally true of most pot users as well but I see now significant reason to legalize pot nor to make alcohol illegal.

With that, I'm done...on to, hopefully, something more useful to discuss.

Edited October 3, 2012 by RobertNashville

[DaveS]

Personaly, I think the use of pot leads to the use of more "hard core" drugs. At least that's what happened to my friends. Pot was one of the worst things to ever happen to me!

Dave S

Edited October 4, 2012 by DaveS

[strickj]

We have many different flavors of non-alcoholic beer, wine, and even vodka. If taste is the primary reason why most people partake in alcohol then why not just allow non-alcoholic drinks? why, because we all know that taste is NOT why most people drink alcohol

Obviously you have never drank alcohol or you only drink to get sloshed.

Beer, wine and liquor are consumed mostly for the flavors.

A beer or two for dinner. A glass of wine with chicken parm. YUM!

Wine is used to make sauces and gravies. Liquor is used to make desserts.

Non-alcoholic drinks like beer and cider do not have the same flavors as alcohol. That's why most people do not buy the non-alcoholic versions, not to mention the lack of variety.

If it were legal now, I'd still partake. Hell, I bet I'd be a lot more productive at work.

Well, that's why you're wanting to legalize it...

[TrickyNicky]

Personaly, I think the use of pot leads to the use of more "hard core" drugs. At least that's what happened to my friends. Pot was one of the worst things to ever happen to me!

Dave S

I could argue that, but what's the point? It seems that most people have their minds made up and don't want any scientific reasoning interfering with their current thought process.

Myself, I disagree.

Now can we all go back to laughing at tacticool chuckle heads and arguing the benefits of our choice in the Glock Vs. 1911 debate?