More gang activity

[Tennjed]

You are absolutely correct, your statement is true, ONCE YOU GIVE THE ACTUAL FACTS which you DID NOT do in your original post.<br /><br />Growing MJ is a SERIOUS FELONY and just because THEY say it's for personal use the law doesn't (and shouldn't) see it that way.<br /><br />You made it sound, either purposely to enhance your point or simply out of ignorance, that there were people sitting in jail just because they had a tiny bit of MJ on them or were trying to buy a tiny bit...that's what I call BS on because that assertion is BS.<br /><br />Here is a clue for your friends...don't do illegal stuff and you won't have to sit in jail. If you are going to do illegal stuff then the ramifications for that choice is 100% on them...if they don't like the laws then operate within the system to get the laws changed; in the meantime, I'm not going to shed one tear for someone stupid enough to grow the stuff knowing the possible consequences.

<br /><br

/>Actually I referenced growing or buying from drug dealers in my original post you just failed to acknowledge it. I said they were in jail for trying to GET weed. You turned it into small possession, not me.

The ramifications are on them, I agree 100% and that is why I preach abstinence first and foremost. And lots of people are working within the laws to get it changed. Colorado is about to vote on legalizing it right now. I just find it shameful that some drug users have no problem celebrating their drugs and looking down on other drug users. The moonshiner of prohibition is glorified, but the construction worker with a plant in their closet is a criminal.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Tennjed

[RobertNashville]

<br /><br

/>Actually I referenced growing or buying from drug dealers in my original post you just failed to acknowledge it. I said they were in jail for trying to GET weed. You turned it into small possession, not me.

The ramifications are on them, I agree 100% and that is why I preach abstinence first and foremost. And lots of people are working within the laws to get it changed. Colorado is about to vote on legalizing it right now. I just find it shameful that some drug users have no problem celebrating their drugs and looking down on other drug users. The moonshiner of prohibition is glorified, but the construction worker with a plant in their closet is a criminal.

More BS...you keep asserting garbage like "some drug users have no problem celebrating their drugs and looking down on other drug users" which is just an assertion on your part to support a weak argument. Who, precisely is "celebrating their drug use" and who, precisely is "looking down on other drug users"? Do you mean people here? If so, who or are these just the "them/they" everybody talks about? ROTFLMAO.

You obviously have a burr up your backside about alcohol and that burr is apparently causing you to make unsupportable statements (or at the very least, statements that you are either unwilling or unable to support).

Edited October 2, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Tennjed]

More BS...you keep asserting garbage like "some drug users have no problem celebrating their drugs and looking down on other drug users" which is just an assertion on your part to support a weak argument. Who, precisely is "celebrating their drug use" and who, precisely is "looking down on other drug users"? Do you mean people here? If so, who or are these just the "them/they" everybody talks about? ROTFLMAO.

You obviously have a burr up your backside about alcohol and that burr is apparently causing you to make unsupportable statements (or at the very least, statements that you are either unwilling or unable to support).

What statement am I unwilling or able to support?

[RobertNashville]

What statement am I unwilling or able to support?

Gee...I don't know...I suppose it could be your statement that I put in QUOTATION MARKS???

[Tennjed]

Gee...I don't know...I suppose it could be your statement that I put in QUOTATION MARKS???

What celebrating drug use? Society does that with alcohol all the time. Just listen to a country music station or watch a football game.

[RobertNashville]

What celebrating drug use? Society does that with alcohol all the time. Just listen to a country music station or watch a football game.

Trying to have a conversation with you is like herding cats and almost as pointless.

So the “some drug users†you accused of “celebrating their drugs and looking down on other drug users†in post #226 is now “society†and "country music stations"??? Do I have a correct understanding of your statement now or do you want to change it again? ROTFLMAO

I'm not a CW fan but I listen to country music stations now and then and I watch football games now and then too but I don't see how either "celebrates" alcohol - can you be a bit more specific about how that happens?

Edited October 2, 2012 by RobertNashville

[piercedan]

Alcohol use is portrayed as acceptable and in some ways desirable. Alcohol use is drug use pure and simple. It just so happens that it is a drug that has been accepted by society, so it is okay.

[RobertNashville]

Alcohol use is portrayed as acceptable and in some ways desirable. Alcohol use is drug use pure and simple. It just so happens that it is a drug that has been accepted by society, so it is okay.

While that is a true statement; consider that, although tastes differ between people, most people would agree that alcohol in most of its forms tastes good...how many people shoot heroin or snort coke because it tastes good? The alcohol I drink complements certain meals and certain fine cigars I smoke...I don't think I could ever say the same about crack or meth.

Clearly, some (and it is just some) people have problems with alcohol but the overwhelming majority of those who use alcohol use is responsibly so why shouldn't it be portrayed as desirable and acceptable?

Those of us who enjoy firearms portray firearm ownership and use as fun and desirable and acceptable (as well as a God given right) - should we not do that because of the small percentage of gun owners who misuse their weapons?

Edited October 2, 2012 by RobertNashville

[piercedan]

It doesn't matter what it tastes like. It is a drug. Thankfully for us, society has saw fit to allow us to partake. Notice I said "allow". This is the flaw in reasoning.

It seems absurd to argue so fervently for the allowance of one drug and the denial of others based upon a personal preference. Alcohol is a dangerous drug and to say otherwise would be a pretty bold and unsupported claim. So what gives someone the right to say their dangerous drug of choice is okay to use, but someone else should not have that choice?

Bringing in the gun ownership argument makes my point. I think automatic weapons should be legal to own without having to jump through hoops and pay exorbitant amounts of money to do so. Should we only allow .22 rifles to be owned? Should we only allow 5 shot magazines and only guns with a "sporting" use?

Drugs are drugs. There is responsible drug use and irresponsible drug use. I've seen examples of both.

[Guest CCI]

This pisses me off!

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/stoner-dog-epidemic-sees-dramatic-rise-number-hospitalized-192636155.html

[piercedan]

This pisses me off!

http://news.yahoo.co...-192636155.html

Yes, there is no accounting for stupid.

[RobertNashville]

It doesn't matter what it tastes like. It is a drug. Thankfully for us, society has saw fit to allow us to partake. Notice I said "allow". This is the flaw in reasoning.

How it tastes most certainly does matter because it goes to the heart of both how and why alcohol is used by most people compared how and why illegal drugs are used by most of those who use them. You can chose to not see the difference between the two but the differences are there nonetheless.

It seems absurd to argue so fervently for the allowance of one drug and the denial of others based upon a personal preference. Alcohol is a dangerous drug and to say otherwise would be a pretty bold and unsupported claim. So what gives someone the right to say their dangerous drug of choice is okay to use, but someone else should not have that choice?

It would be absurd were anyone arguing that position fervently but no one is.

I’m pointing out differences between how and why most people use alcohol (over half the population of the U.S. and some 2 billion people worldwide) vs. how/why most illegal drugs are used. I’ve said more than once in this thread that while I probably wouldn’t propose such a change I can see how making all “illegal†drugs “legal†is in keeping with the concepts of individual liberty, freedom and responsibility; I am not sure that doing so is a good idea nor do I really believe that doing so would reduce gang related crime (which is how this dead horse beating got started) but I’d probably go along with it.

As with many if not most substances in life (you can actually kill yourself if you drink too much water in too short a period of time). Of course, alcohol is dangerous if it is misused/abused but unless I missed it no one has said otherwise.

Drugs are drugs. There is responsible drug use and irresponsible drug use. I've seen examples of both.

Really? I may be misinformed but I’ve not seen reliable evidence to show that there are very many casual, responsible users of heroin or of cocaine or of crack or of meth or of most any other illegal drug...I would suggest that's why most of the illegal drugs are illegal.

Maybe you've seen evidence I haven't or maybe you know some people who use such drugs “responsibility†but as I said, I've not see that assertion supported with real evidence and it certainly hasn’t been my personal experience.

Edited October 2, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Chucktshoes]

Really? I may be misinformed but I’ve not seen reliable evidence to show that there are very many casual, responsible users of heroin or of cocaine or of crack or of meth or of most any other illegal drug...I would suggest that's why most of the illegal drugs are illegal.

Maybe you've seen evidence I haven't or maybe you know some people who use such drugs “responsibility†but as I said, I've not see that assertion supported with real evidence and it certainly hasn’t been my personal experience.

I was one of those casual, responsible users of cocaine. After I got out of the AF, I was in my early 20s and worked for a company that didn't care about employee drug use as long as it did not interfere with work. I partied quite a bit in those days. To be honest, I'd say that blow was the best drug ever. I never had any ill after effects from it. I'd drink, do some blow, drink some more, do more blow and repeat until it was time to stop partying. Then I would go home and sleep. Then i would wake up and go about whatever business I had to do.

If it were legal now, I'd still partake. Hell, I bet I'd be a lot more productive at work.

[Chucktshoes]

.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Chucktshoes

[TMF]

I was one of those casual, responsible users of cocaine. After I got out of the AF, I was in my early 20s and worked for a company that didn't care about employee drug use as long as it did not interfere with work. I partied quite a bit in those days. To be honest, I'd say that blow was the best drug ever. I never had any ill after effects from it. I'd drink, do some blow, drink some more, do more blow and repeat until it was time to stop partying. Then I would go home and sleep. Then i would wake up and go about whatever business I had to do.

If it were legal now, I'd still partake. Hell, I bet I'd be a lot more productive at work.

Impossible. I've seen enough after school specials and cautionary tale movies to know this couldn't possibly be true in a million years.

As someone who has never done coke I am clearly more qualified to make assumptions on its effects and addictiveness. I know for a fact that if I tried coke tomorrow I would instantly be compelled into a life of crime where I will abandon my family and commit criminal acts to feed my habit. Clearly it must be one extreme or the other, because to believe that there is anything existing in the middle is to accept that people are capable of making responsible choices despite the use of drugs other than alcohol. Pop culture has made clear this isn't true.

[piercedan]

I think the problem with this argument is that we are categorizing drugs by virtue of legality while arguing social impact. Grouping drugs by their level of danger would serve the argument better.

Alcohol shouldn't enjoy a special pass because it happens to be legal. Actually, if you were to categorize based upon danger level, there are many drugs that would be considered more safe than alcohol. I'm not trying to beat up on alcohol use, don't mistake that. It is simply my sounding board to say that you can't claim special status for alcohol and point the finger at those other "evil" drugs.

It is a mistake to cast marijuana into the group with crack, meth, PCP, or whatever. Doing so attempts to give the ability to dismiss it as one of those evil (more dangerous) drugs. It is not. If you say it is, I would guess you really don't have much experience with it. It is not nearly as dangerous as the previously mentioned drugs, or dare I say, alcohol.

Yes, I know many people who smoke MJ and are very productive, family oriented, and caring people. My father is one. He's worked very hard since he was young. 30 years in the oilfields, another 20 as a cattle rancher. It helps him with the pain of hard work and makes his day a little more enjoyable. He's raised a family, been faithful to his wife, generous to his friends and family, and has a solid moral character.

Just like I can't say that every person who takes in alcohol is an abusive alcoholic, though I've known several. You can't paint a wide brush and say every person who does some other drug besides alcohol is some degenerate.

Edited October 2, 2012 by piercedan

[Tennjed]

We have many different flavors of non-alcoholic beer, wine, and even vodka. If taste is the primary reason why most people partake in alcohol then why not just allow non-alcoholic drinks? why, because we all know that taste is NOT why most people drink alcohol

Edited October 2, 2012 by Tennjed

[TMF]

I would probably drink goat piss if it got me drunk. I'm certain that is what Corona is made with anyway.

[piercedan]

I would probably drink goat piss if it got me drunk. I'm certain that is what Corona is made with anyway.

Hopefully you would chill it first. Straight from the tap would be a sure sign of alcoholism.

[DaveTN]

We have many different flavors of non-alcoholic beer, wine, and even vodka. If taste is the primary reason why most people partake in alcohol then why not just allow non-alcoholic drinks? why, because we all know that taste is NOT why most people drink alcohol

I’ve made no arguments that alcohol is better or worse than drugs. What I can say with absolute certainty is that if drugs are legalized; there will be more drug users that will want to break into our homes to steal or stuff or stick a gun to peoples head to take their money. Yes, Yes.... I know the pot heads aren’t going to stick a gun to my head and try to take my money. They will be driving in the left lane 20 MPH under the speed limit, talking on their cell phones, clueless to what is going on around them (mixed in with the dumb azzes that do that now, high or not). But the crime associated with Crack, Meth, and Heroin users needing money to get their next fix will skyrocket. Argue that all you want; but it’s just common sense.

Yes, there are people addicted to alcohol that will commit crimes to get a fix; there are also those that will commit violent crimes because of the loss of control alcohol causes. There are even those “good†citizens that think it’s okay to stop after work for a few and then drive home. That is until they kill someone and find themselves facing prison time and financial devastation to their family. But with all the evils of alcohol (and they are real), do I want to say “Oh well, we might as well allow all substance abusers a shot at us.� I don’t think so.

When I have friends in other states that want their state legislators to allow carry permits; they like to discuss it with me because they know that Tennessee has carry permits. When they start with “My 2^nd Amendment rights†I stop them right there and explain that if you base your argument on the 2^nd amendment; you have lost before you get the words out of your mouth. HCP is not about rights, and the state of Tennessee doesn’t recognize my right to carry a gun any more than Illinois or New York. Same thing here… this isn’t about alcohol; and making an argument that alcohol is dangerous and drugs are dangerous; so both should be legal is ridiculous.

This is part where you say you really don’t care about those other bad drugs, or the bad people that take them. You are only interested in pot because everyone knows that no one has ever gotten into trouble or caused someone else to be hurt because they were stoned.

And let me say this about your friends that are in jail that didn’t do anything more than get arrested for growing pot at home for their own use…. I was a cop for years and have never seen anyone sentenced to jail that had a clean record and committed no crime other than growing a small amount of pot for themselves. I guess it could happen; but it’s highly unlikely. Of course, if that pot charge was coupled with aggravated battery on a Police Officer and resisting arrest; I could see how it could happen.

Edited October 2, 2012 by DaveTN

[RobertNashville]

I was one of those casual, responsible users of cocaine. After I got out of the AF, I was in my early 20s and worked for a company that didn't care about employee drug use as long as it did not interfere with work. I partied quite a bit in those days. To be honest, I'd say that blow was the best drug ever. I never had any ill after effects from it. I'd drink, do some blow, drink some more, do more blow and repeat until it was time to stop partying. Then I would go home and sleep. Then i would wake up and go about whatever business I had to do.

If it were legal now, I'd still partake. Hell, I bet I'd be a lot more productive at work.

Then I'd say you are pretty damn lucky and a good thing you didn't continue using it.

Cocaine Dangers

The main health risk with cocaine is overdose. Most cocaine deaths have been caused by accidental overdose, especially with cocaine dissolved in drinks. There is no such thing as a "safe" dose of coke, and a person can overdose even if they have only ingested a relatively small amount of the drug. Cocaine overdose is not nice: victims suffer convulsions, heart failure, or the depression of vital brain centers controlling respiration, usually with fatal results.

Heart Problems and Stroke

When someone uses cocaine, the rush they experience also causes a corresponding spike in his or her blood pressure and pulse rate. The user also experiences an increase in his or her respiration rate. Using the drug can trigger a stroke in some cases. This medical consequence of using coke can occur when the user's blood vessels constrict while his or her blood pressure increases rapidly. The constriction can be severe enough to restrict or cut off blood flow to the brain entirely.

Men under the age of 40 are most at risk for having a stroke as a result of using cocaine. In some cases, the cause of the stroke can be attributed to a malformation in the arteries or veins supplying the brain. In cases where a person has a stroke after using cocaine, they are more likely to experience the type caused by bleeding in the brain than one triggered by a reduction of blood flow to this important organ.

Damage to the Nose

The other main physical danger you face is damaging or perforating the septum, the thin membrane that separates the nostrils at the top of the nose. Regular coke snorters often suffer instant nosebleeds when snorting the drug. Occasional users may detect next-day bloodied mucus and congestion. Heavy users have their septums dissolved by the corrosive effects of cocaine.

A person using cocaine may find that his or her sense of smell is impaired as a result of using the drug. Trouble swallowing is another one of the dangers of cocaine. One of the signs that may indicate a problem with cocaine addiction is seeing a person with a constantly running nose.

Other Dangers of Cocaine Use

An individual who swallows cocaine may be creating the physical conditions required for them to experience bowel gangrene from lack of blood flow to this part of the body. Doing so to avoid being arrested for cocaine possession or because the individual is acting as a "mule" to transport the drug is a very risky thing to do.

If injecting cocaine is your delivery method of choice, you need to be aware that sharing needles puts you at a higher risk for developing HIV/AIDS. Allergic reactions are also not uncommon when the drug is administered in this way.

A cocaine user who binges on the drug can become irritable or restless. The individual may also feel anxious or become paranoid as a result of his or her drug use. In extreme cases, the person experiences auditory hallucinations as part of an episode of cocaine psychosis. This problem is more likely to affect long-term, regular users of the drug than a person who only uses it occasionally.

Combining Cocaine with Alcohol

Using cocaine and alcohol together is quite common among users. This can be a dangerous combination, however, since using the two substances together tends to compound the effects of each one. Research into the issue of using cocaine and alcohol together has found that the human liver produces a substance called cocaethylene when a person uses both substances at the same time. The cocaethylene intensifies the euphoric effect produced by ingesting the cocaine, resulting in a more intense "high" for the user. This combination can also be attractive to cocaine users because it helps to prolong the good feelings they experience.

It makes sense that cocaine and alcohol use would be related, since a number of social cocaine users tend to ingest the drug while attending parties or at a bar. Consuming alcohol is part of their social activity, and they may not think about the fact that they are ingesting two potentially dangerous substances at the same time. People who drink alcohol and use cocaine at the same time may find that they can continue drinking longer than when they are consuming alcohol alone.

As the coke user continues this practice of combining the drug with alcohol, the cocaethylene builds up in his or her liver. This substance may be linked to the increasing number of relatively young people (in their 30s and 40s) who are experiencing heart health issues. An underlying heart condition that is triggered by cocaethylene may be to blame, and further research will need to be conducted to shed more light on what part this third drug plays on the health of people who ingest cocaine while consuming alcohol.

Edited October 2, 2012 by RobertNashville

[RobertNashville]

We have many different flavors of non-alcoholic beer, wine, and even vodka. If taste is the primary reason why most people partake in alcohol then why not just allow non-alcoholic drinks? why, because we all know that taste is NOT why most people drink alcohol

There you go again...making nearly all-encompassing, unsupported assertions.

So why do most people drink alcoholic beverages? While you are answering that, please provide some data (preferably empirical data based on research) that supports your assertion.

Edited October 2, 2012 by RobertNashville

[DaveTN]

I wouldn’t pay the high price for a drink if it wasn’t for effect. I would drink sparkling water and save my money for guns.

[Tennjed]

There you go again...making nearly all-encompassing, unsupported assertions.

So why do most people drink alcoholic beverages? While you are answering that, please provide some data (preferably empirical data based on research) that supports your assertion.

How it tastes most certainly does matter because it goes to the heart of both how and why alcohol is used by most people

WOW, you stated most people drink for the taste? Where is YOUR data to back up that claim? Common sense will tell you alcohol is as popular as it is because of the effect. You can make all-encompassing, unsopported assertions but others can't. You can do drugs, but pot smokers can't. WOW

Edited October 3, 2012 by Tennjed

[DaveS]

We have many different flavors of non-alcoholic beer, wine, and even vodka. If taste is the primary reason why most people partake in alcohol then why not just allow non-alcoholic drinks? why, because we all know that taste is NOT why most people drink alcohol

Like Pot without THC....

Dave