Why does Homeland Security need 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition?

[QuietDan]

Why does Homeland Security need 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition?

September 20, 2012

Lee DeCovnick

The Department of Homeland Security has purchased 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition- that is not a typo -- during the last six months. This includes 450 million rounds of .40 hollow point, 200 million rounds of .223 rifle ammunition, and 176,000 rounds of .308 168-grain hollow point boat tail (HPBT) that is used almost exclusively as ammo for sniper rifles.

From beforeitsnews.com we read:

Why is everyone all up in arms about the recent purchase by Homeland security of 1.4 Billion rounds of ammunition?

Our undeclared Foreign War in Iraq Consumes about 70,000,000 (70 Million) Rounds of Ammunition Each Year, which would take about 20 years to consume 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition ordered by the Department of Homeland Security alone, not including all the ammunition ordered by the weather service, Social Security, etc! 20 Years To Use All 1.4 Billion Rounds Of This Ammo?

Is the Department of Homeland security to protect us from foreign terrorists, or to protect the central government from the American people?

Read the entire chilling article. Avoid any political discussions about Obama's infamous 2008 quote, lest your blood pressure dangerously rise.

We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.

Let's put these DHS numbers in perspective. An Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer displaces (weighs) 9,300 tons. 1.4 billion rounds weigh around 28,000 tons, three destroyers' worth, so to speak. It takes over 1,200 18-wheel trucks to move that much ammunition. That's the equivalent to a line of single trailer trucks, parked end to end, almost 14 miles long.

There are 314 million Americans, men, women and children living in the United States this morning. This year alone, DHS has purchased four rounds for each and every American. We don't know how much more ammo the DHS may have accumulated during the preceding 36 months of the Obama Administration. This enormous DHS stockpile supplements the ammunition already held by the US Armed Forces, the National Guard, hundreds of local and state police departments, plus other Federal law enforcement agencies such as the ATF, Secret Service, FBI, TSA and the US Marshals Service.

Why did DHS purchase 28,000 tons of ammunition? Why did DHS purchase almost half a billion rounds of hollow point ammunition, banned by the Hague Convention of 1899 for use in international warfare, that is carefully designed to kill it intended targets? Americans have no good answers to these questions since the DHS is now refusing to respond to media inquires on the subject. Pull back the curtain of silence by asking your Congressmen and Senators these questions.

These huge inventories are extremely troubling from the standpoint of a free society. DHS and other Federal governmental agencies will be much less inclined to ever use this ammunition as long as Americans citizens stand firm in supporting our Second Amendment rights to bear arms. We must never forget that tyrants throughout modern history (Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin and Mao) always disarmed their opponents before rounding them up and sending them to the killing fields.

We must never forget.

48 days until Election Day.

Read more: http://www.americant...l#ixzz27GFy47la

Edited September 23, 2012 by QuietDan

[gregintenn]

Why does Homeland Security need 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition?

So they can serve and protect the #&^ out of you!!!

[Guest robin.kempton]

Be careful bringing this subject up....one of the moderators locked my thread up because of this. I brought this up before and asked the same question. It makes no sense. You do not train with the rounds that you carry....that makes no sense at all and its an expense that any government agency would automaticly deny. How do you practice with hallowpoints....its just not done......you practice with the cheapest rounds possible, then carry the rounds you feel neccessary to nuetralize the threat you feel that you think you will encounter. Makes you wonder what threat do they think they will encounter. Mine covered the Social Security Agency departments questionable purchase, maybe they will leave your thread alone....good luck.

Edited September 23, 2012 by robin.kempton

[Oh Shoot]

Meh, that's less that 5 rounds for each of us. "They" aren't that good.

- OS

[Mike.357]

heck, most of us have more ammo than we could ever shoot, why not Uncle Sugar?

[TMF]

Be careful bringing this subject up....one of the moderators locked my thread up because of this. I brought this up before and asked the same question. It makes no sense.

It got locked because there were already two or three threads about this very subject.

[QuietDan]

The ammo purchases are all over the news, granted.

However, I have not seen any previous stories where the DHS ammo count went over A BILLION ROUNDS.

Something just doesn't smell right. I'm thinking October Surprise. (Cue the Black Helicopters . . . )

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Is this a re-order? Hasn't been that long since

the previous order. Confused

[TMF]

There were lots of good reasons given last time around. Is this a new order?

Also remember, this is the end of the fiscal year, meaning that gov agencies need to spend whatever is in their budgets so they don't get reduced next year. I know that sounds stoopid and wasteful, because it is, but having been a useless gov employee once, I can remember on many occasions sitting in a meeting in September regarding how much we need to spend and how quick we need to spend it.

And regarding the fact they purchased HP ammo, it really means nothing. The other thread has all the explanations so I'm not retyping it. The thing to remember, if your job is turning wrenches on an aircraft, you have to accept the possibility that you don't understand the intricacies and inner workings of an organization that has multiple agencies under their wing. Perhaps, just perhaps, there are reasonable answers out there if you just look.

[TMF]

Add:

Gov agencies have just one more week to spend their money. This is the month of the stoopid wasteful spending for all gov agencies.

[QuietDan]

Add:

Gov agencies have just one more week to spend their money. This is the month of the stoopid wasteful spending for all gov agencies.

You may be right. Ammo has value, will burn up budget funds, lasts a long time, etc.

However, with all the other crazy stuff going on, the government bears considerable watching. Vigilance is called for. NOTHING needs to be going on under the radar. I don't trust this admin's crowd any further than I can throw them, preferably down a well.

November is coming. . . .

[Oh Shoot]

Is this a re-order? Hasn't been that long since

the previous order. Confused

Nah, it's all same story regarding purchases over the last six months.

- OS

[Guest robin.kempton]

You are correct, if they don't spend the money allocated to their agency now, they won't get the same amount or more for the next fiscal year. I worked for the Fedral Government as an helicopter mechanic for 13 1/2 years and they worked the same way. I'm not familiar with an organization with multiple agencies and I'm probably missing some of the details on that very subject. But you are right...they got to spend that money any way they can and its at that time they can spend at a rediculous rate and stockpile as much as they think they could possibly need. We used to get some cool things and as much of it as we wanted during this time of the year......All I'm going to add to this is "the next war for independence won't be fought with muskets".

Edited September 23, 2012 by robin.kempton

[TMF]

I'm not familiar with an organization with multiple agencies and I'm probably missing some of the details on that very subject.

The DHS has the following (and more) agencies under them:

US Customs and Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, National Protection and Programs Directorate, Transportation Security Administration, Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, Federal Emergency Management Agency, US Coast Guard, Secret Service...... it goes on for a few more.

All those agencies above have lots of guns. Just ask them. They need boolits for them bang sticks. It just so happens that ammo is pretty expensive and one of the best ways to justify expenditures. The icing on the cake is that ammo is an expendable, so they can do the same thing next year if they have a lot of cash sitting around as they approach October 2013... let's hope by then their budget has shrunk a little.

[vontar]

The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibited the use in international warfare of bullets that easily expand or flatten in the body.^[3] This is often incorrectly believed to be prohibited in the Geneva Conventions, but it significantly predates those conventions, and is in fact a continuance of the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868, which banned exploding projectiles of less than 400 grams, as well as weapons designed to aggravate injured soldiers or make their death inevitable. NATO members do not use small arms ammunition that is prohibited by the Hague Convention.

Despite the ban on military use, hollow-point bullets are one of the most common types of civilian and police ammunition, due largely to the reduced risk of bystanders being hit by over-penetrating or ricocheted bullets, and the increased speed of incapacitation. In many jurisdictions, even ones such as the United Kingdom, where expanding ammunition is generally prohibited, it is illegal to hunt certain types of game with ammunition that does not expand.^[4][5] Some target ranges forbid full metal jacket ammunition, due to its greater tendency to damage metal targets and backstops.^[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet

I suspect they are going hunting. You are not allowed to use full metal Jackets when deer hunting in allot of states.

The military uses FMJ (not hollow points) for the though and though hits that my wound multiple targets and thus trying up others to care for the wounded with 1 bullet.

[TMF]

The military uses FMJ (not hollow points) for the though and though hits that my wound multiple targets and thus trying up others to care for the wounded with 1 bullet.

The military doesn't use hollow points because they're not allowed to. Ammunition in the system that is considered hollowpoints even have "not for combat use" stamped on the box.

[vontar]

Yea, I know it is not allowed by the military. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

[Reservoir Dog]

It makes no sense. You do not train with the rounds that you carry....that makes no sense at all and its an expense that any government agency would automaticly deny. How do you practice with hallowpoints....its just not done......you practice with the cheapest rounds possible, then carry the rounds you feel neccessary to nuetralize the threat you feel that you think you will encounter.

I don't know where you got this idea, but you are flat out wrong. I have worked for several LE agencies an the federal and state level, and we always practiced/qualified with our carry ammo. All hollowpoints, all the time. Even during the academies, it was hollowpoints.

The government has massive contracts for these types of things, especially Homeland Security, which has quite a few gun toting agencies. The also have the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, which does a lot of firearms training. It is cheaper in the long run to stick with one type of ammo, that way do not have to contract, procure, store and distribute two different types of ammo.

[TMF]

I don't know where you got this idea, but you are flat out wrong. I have worked for several LE agencies an the federal and state level, and we always practiced/qualified with our carry ammo. All hollowpoints, all the time. Even during the academies, it was hollowpoints.

But the article said that hollowpoints are "carefully designed to kill their intended targets".... you mean.... you can use these exploding, fragmenting hollowpoint death boolits on the range???

Edited September 23, 2012 by TMF

[VERO1]

Maybe they just can't hit the broad side of a barn and need lots of practice?

[Reservoir Dog]

But the article said that hollowpoints are "carefully designed to kill their intended targets".... you mean.... you can use these exploding, fragmenting hollowpoint death boolits on the range???

Sure you can. Those steel bullet traps are much tougher than your average civilian. But let us not discuss the specifics, as DHS may put us in a FEMA camp.

[Guest robin.kempton]

Wow.....that news to me...I wouldn't want to shoot that stuff at a shooting range.Good luck with that......I wouldn't do well in a FEMA camp, I need wide open spaces so that I can see 'em coming. Everytime I think that I get a handle on this topic something new gets thrown at me. Got a few of these agencies here in Afghanistan, I think I'll go and talk to them before I post anymore, I might have missed something new that I wasn't aware of before.

Edited September 23, 2012 by robin.kempton

[Guest Wildogre]

Just as a thought, perhaps the DHS is not buying all this ammo for its own use. Since "enemy combatants" are not covered under the Hauge Conventions it would not be against international conventions to use hollow point ammunition in fighting them. It is not uncommon, so I have read, for the Government to budget money for one organisation that is actually to be spent on a "Black Project". DHS may be purchasing this ammo for DOD and the bureaucrat who thought this up may have thought that this was the best way to hide it. Or it could be just end of the fiscal year spending.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The bunch in charge at the moment don't care about conventions or laws. unless they are from the UN.

They also don't care about "enemy combatant", since we're all some form of terrorist now. When you

classify a Soldier coming home from Iraq, etc., a terrorist, extremist, you have have some real problems

with your leadership. How much farther do you have to let it go, before you start removing these people

from office.

To expose these ammunition purchases to the public, when it never has been, is suspicious, but I think

it will take a while longer and the heat turned up a little faster before people get really riled up, and it

will probably be too late by then.

[DaveTN]

Here's what the NRA has to say about it.....

http://www.nraila.or...ammunition.aspx