carry ing a gun and asked to leave hypothetical

[Guest rj8806]

Wow, this O.P. is just crazy in his ideas. I just spent the last 20 minutes reading thru 15 pages of crap because of a hypothetical question to begin with?

I spent the weekend in Nashville this past weekend, knowing the OpryMills mall was not legally posted and I carried the whole time(concealed). I didn't casue a disturbance and as far as I know, no one knew I was carrying. Why would you want to cause a ruckus and make it harder on those of us who just want to go about our business.

If I were confronted and asked to leave then so be it, I'd leave. Until then, leave me alone and I'll do the same.

Richard

[Guest kwikrnu]

He's posted a few contradictory things. Hard to tell if he's for real or not. Either way I think it's a lost cause.

I try hard not to contradict myself. Could you point out some contradictions?

[Guest kwikrnu]

A thought...... and it hurts my head to have one.....

Why get upset, now?

IF Kwik did call the management of Opry Mills/Walmart/<name here> Mall,

it will take a short period of time before signs get posted.

As he has persisted in being a troll, can we not simply ignore his posts?

Are his posts always true? This is a public forum and anything can be claimed on here.

nite!

Why use the word "if" ? If I said I did then I did. Next time you want me to make it a three way call then PM me your #.

[Guest kwikrnu]

I thought people on this site were in favor of liberalizing legal carry. Voldemort seems intent on restricting it. I don't understand the purpose of that. Legal permit holders are the safest people in the state. Restricting them will not make areas safer--the very opposite.

So it comes down to one of two things:

Either he is pulling our legs and trying to get us riled up (and doing a fine job of it);

Or he really is the scum-sucking second cousin to Jimmy Naifeh and needs to be banned post hast.

I hope it's the first.

I'm all for legal carry. I've not restricted anything. I do not own Opry Mills Mall nor do I work for Opry Mills Mall I do not write laws either. Any complaints should be directed to lawmakers, managers or owners of the mall...

[Guest mw.]

I try hard not to contradict myself. Could you point out some contradictions?

Yes I could but

I think it's a lost cause.

[Guest ColdEspresso]

Simple, you leave! Leave a note on the car and go! Let's not try to make this complicated. You can walk to McGavock and wait for the fam to pick you up on the bench near the tobacco shop and Cooter's place. I hope they bought you something

[Guest kwikrnu]

Simple, you leave! Leave a note on the car and go! Let's not try to make this complicated. You can walk to McGavock and wait for the fam to pick you up on the bench near the tobacco shop and Cooter's place. I hope they bought you something

Which is it, leave a note on the car or leave?

Point is places I shop should have a clear policy. I don't like to be hassled and treated as I am a criminal for carrying a gun. If you don't want me to shop at your store put up a conforming sign and I won't.

[Guest kwikrnu]

As far as Wal-Marts go....I have never been able to get a 100% clear answer about whether there is a corprate policy or not...the times I've been told there is a corprate policy I have seen that they go by state law on OC or CC also have seen that they will allow CC (where legal) but reserve the right to restrict OC. So who knows for sure.

I am a little bit familar with the case tcampbell is speaking of. In fact the TFA uses in a letter generator it has to give to business that prohibit carry. But if I remember the case right the one thing that sticks out is the Management of that store was faimilar with a dangereous situation (previous robberies) and did nothing to correct it. So not sure if a property owner would have liabilty if there wasn't a known of pre-exsisting danger that they failed to address. I'm not sure a court would see simply prohibiting carry as creating a dangerous situation...although IMO it does.

Now...I admit I'm not going out and trying to get places with anti-carry policies to post proper signs, but I have to say, to some degree if a place is anti-carry then I do think they should have it out there for all to see (just another reason I want a state required sign that is large and obnoxious:D). I guess it's because I hope that even those that don't carry, but are pro-gun, pro-2A, or just pro-self-defense would lobby the manager to take down the signs... but I admit that is not likely to happen.

Walmarts policy is they defer to local management and laws. That means all Walmarts are going to have a different policy and is based upon the managers beliefs. It is hard to nail them down to it, but if you wade through their call system and actually speak to someone and they return your call that is the answer you'll get.

Lobbying the manager of a mall will do no good. Lobbying each individual tenant may get you somewhere.

[DavidD]

Here's something to think about regarding an establishment that may not have proper signage and/or all entrances posted. This is hypothetical and purely speculative and any and all similarities to local establishments as well as to any specific person here on this forum or any where else are purely coincidental. The opinions expressed below do not necessarily reflect those of TGO, it's moderators or any of it's members. Comments are purely opinions of DavidD and the story is purely fictional.

Big Corporate has a "no weapons" policy. Corporate is located in a blue state that does not issue handgun carry permits. They have locations all across the country. Their location here in Tennessee is managed by a person who does not have a handgun permit, does not believe he needs one however feels "to each his own" and isn't really against the idea per se. He is fully aware of his companies policies and has posted the companies signs sporadically throughout his establishment so he can not be accused of being entirely negligent in his duties regarding this issue. He is fully aware that his signs do not meet the Tennessee code. This manager has accomplished two things:

First, he is at least partially compliant with his corporate policy and is aware that this is one policy that rarely gets checked internally. He has partially portrayed the Companies wishes to the public that No Weapons are allowed.

Second, he has left the door open for those who want to skirt the policy by entering at different locations and has effectively given those patrons a defense in the eyes of the law for carrying a weapon on company property.

This is called COMPROMISE (back to reality----Hey Voldemort, look this word up---return to fiction)

Everything has been running smoothly with no incidents regarding those that Conceal Carry. There have been a "few" incidents in which other patrons have brought to the attention of security that someone was carrying a weapon. In one of those instances, a soccer mom and child were nearly run over by a rude individual with a gun strapped to his side. Yes, you read it right a gun. You know, the kind that kills people. He did not look like a cop, did not act like a cop and she felt like he was a threat to her and her child's safety. Off to the mall office she goes. The Manager says "Yes, ma'am, we have a no weapons policy and said individual will be asked to leave." Security finds the individual, questions him, discovers he has a valid handgun permit. They then inform the individual of the company policy and ask the gun toting patron to leave. Now the manager has followed company policy and directives as well as pacified the soccer mom, yet he has upset the Open Carrying patron. Two out of three aint bad, and he still has his job.

Then one day, some real smart guy comes along and says "you aren't properly posted" and "if you don't want us, just say so." Now, the manager has no choice. He must comply. It is not worth his job for he has a family to support. He will now direct his employees to not only properly post signs, but do so at every entrance. Now the smart guy has effectively ruined it for all. What does he care, he is now some how vindicated. He was not smart enough to see the big picture, Not cool headed enough to suck it up and let it go, not responsible enough to use prudence in a situation he knew could cause trouble for himself and simply wanted to buck the system. Essentially looking for a fight. He lost this fight, whether he is really smart enough to know it or not.

End of Story.

Edited June 2, 2008 by DavidD

[The Rabbi]

I'm all for legal carry. I've not restricted anything. I do not own Opry Mills Mall nor do I work for Opry Mills Mall I do not write laws either. Any complaints should be directed to lawmakers, managers or owners of the mall...

Yes but by "helping" management you have made it impossible for everyone else who carries to go there. If you had kept your mouth shut it would still be possible.

But no one ever said your judgment was terrific.

[Guest kwikrnu]

Here's something to think about regarding an establishment that may not have proper signage and/or all entrances posted. This is hypothetical and purely speculative and any and all similarities to local establishments as well as to any specific person here on this forum or any where else are purely coincidental. The opinions expressed below do not necessarily reflect those of TGO, it's moderators or any of it's members. Comments are purely opinions of DavidD and the story is purely fictional.

Big Corporate has a "no weapons" policy. Corporate is located in a blue state that does not issue handgun carry permits. They have locations all across the country. Their location here in Tennessee is managed by a person who does not have a handgun permit, does not believe he needs one however feels "to each his own" and isn't really against the idea per se. He is fully aware of his companies policies and has posted the companies signs sporadically throughout his establishment so he can not be accused of being entirely negligent in his duties regarding this issue. He is fully aware that his signs do not meet the Tennessee code. This manager has accomplished two things:

First, he is at least partially compliant with his corporate policy and is aware that this is one policy that rarely gets checked internally. He has partially portrayed the Companies wishes to the public that No Weapons are allowed.

Second, he has left the door open for those who want to skirt the policy by entering at different locations and has effectively given those patrons a defense in the eyes of the law for carrying a weapon on company property.

This is called COMPROMISE (back to reality----Hey Voldemort, look this word up---return to fiction)

Everything has been running smoothly with no incidents regarding those that Conceal Carry. There have been a "few" incidents in which other patrons have brought to the attention of security that someone was carrying a weapon. In one of those instances, a soccer mom and child were nearly run over by a rude individual with a gun strapped to his side. Yes, you read it right a gun. You know, the kind that kills people. He did not look like a cop, did not act like a cop and she felt like he was a threat to her and her child's safety. Off to the mall office she goes. The Manager says "Yes, ma'am, we have a no weapons policy and said individual will be asked to leave." Security finds the individual, questions him, discovers he has a valid handgun permit. They then inform the individual of the company policy and ask the gun toting patron to leave. Now the manager has followed company policy and directives as well as pacified the soccer mom, yet he has upset the Open Carrying patron. Two out of three aint bad, and he still has his job.

Then one day, some real smart guy comes along and says "you aren't properly posted" and "if you don't want us, just say so." Now, the manager has no choice. He must comply. It is not worth his job for he has a family to support. He will now direct his employees to not only properly post signs, but do so at every entrance. Now the smart guy has effectively ruined it for all. What does he care, he is now some how vindicated. He was not smart enough to see the big picture, Not cool headed enough to suck it up and let it go, not responsible enough to use prudence in a situation he knew could cause trouble for himself and simply wanted to buck the system. Essentially looking for a fight. He lost this fight, whether he is really smart enough to know it or not.

End of Story.

What a cruel man who would run over the poor woman and child. I would have held the door open for her and her child.

[Guest nraforlife]

Guys, I for one am not going to respond to anything Voldemort posts anymore. By his threads most should have figured out a LONG time ago that the dude isn't playing with a full deck and this thread just reinforces this.

I am afraid that we maybe enabling someone who is getting his rocks off at this forums expense.

[Fallguy]

DavidD...I agree your story is possible.

I am a little curious about the first part.

I've read seveal post that say they think some improper signs are a "comprimise" (to use your word) and they may be, but I would be curious to know just how many situations are like this? Of course I admit there isn't really much of a way of finding out. I truly think the majority of improperly posted signs are just the owner's not knowing the law. But as you this is simply my opinion. Of course...I'm not going to actively try to get them to change their signs either.

[The Rabbi]

Guys, I for one am not going to respond to anything Voldemort posts anymore. By his threads most should have figured out a LONG time ago that the dude isn't playing with a full deck and this thread just reinforces this.

I am afraid that we maybe enabling someone who is getting his rocks off at this forums expense.

If you go to the User CP section there is a place to put people on "Ignore" so you cant see their posts anymore.

I just did that. Encourage others to do the same.

[Guest nraforlife]

If you go to the User CP section there is a place to put people on "Ignore" so you cant see their posts anymore.

I just did that. Encourage others to do the same.

THANK YOU... Next time I am in Nashville, Hooters is on me.

[Punisher84]

Kwik is nothing more than a troll. He's an idiot and attention seeker. He's probably no more than 16 and gets his kicks by starting trouble on forums. I'm following Rabbi's lead and ignoring him. I hope our moderators will see this moron for what he is and ban him. He has yet to contribute anything but controversy and silly hypotheticals in 420+ posts.

I'm done with it.

[DavidD]

.... I truly think the majority of improperly posted signs are just the owner's not knowing the law.....

I agree. I'd be willing to bet 99% are neglegence. But I know of at least one instance where that is not the case and suspect there are more. As in my PURELY FICTIONAL story, why would one post only on some entrances and not all? Surely there aren't that many numnuts out there.......

[The Rabbi]

THANK YOU... Next time I am in Nashville, Hooters is on me.

You're welcome. I'm a cheap date.

[Fallguy]

I agree. I'd be willing to bet 99% are neglegence. But I know of at least one instance where that is not the case and suspect there are more. As in my PURELY FICTIONAL story, why would one post only on some entrances and not all? Surely there aren't that many numnuts out there.......

I do agree with you as well. Can you share where the one instance of it happening occured?

Of course you'd be surprised how many numnuts might be out there...or in here for that matter...lol

I hope your story remains fictional, but some would see it become reaility.

[Guest tcampbell]

You're welcome. I'm a cheap date.

so are the girls at hooters!!!!! hahahahahhahahhahhaa

[DaveTN]

He's probably no more than 16

I hope not because someone here sold him a gun.

[DavidD]

Can you share where the one instance of it happening occured?

I cannot. But remember, many locals run a lot of "out of towner" , "foreigner" , "yankee" or "West Coast wussie" owned establishments...

[Guest mw.]

DavidD...I agree your story is possible.

I am a little curious about the first part.

I've read seveal post that say they think some improper signs are a "comprimise" (to use your word) and they may be, but I would be curious to know just how many situations are like this? Of course I admit there isn't really much of a way of finding out. I truly think the majority of improperly posted signs are just the owner's not knowing the law. But as you this is simply my opinion. Of course...I'm not going to actively try to get them to change their signs either.

here's 1

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=87584&postcount=50

[Fallguy]

I cannot. But remember, many locals run a lot of "out of towner" , "foreigner" , "yankee" or "West Coast wussie" owned establishments...

[Guest kwikrnu]

I wish I knew what library that was...