Help me with my first AR15

[Dolomite_supafly]

So, do I understand correctly that if I decide I want a forward assist and a dust cover, I simply swap out the upper receiver assembly with something like this for $99 and all the crying about "I wouldn't own an AR without a FA and dust cover" stops (from certain folks)?

http://www.bravocomp...upper -m4 2.htm

Exactly

Dolomite

[tt0511]

So, my budget is around $900-$1000. My brother in law has a friend who is a FFL and can get me the rifle at dealer cost. With that in mind, is there another model I should be looking at from Daniel Defense, S&W, Bravo, etc.? Just trying to be wise with this purchase. It's a lot of money for me.

[Dolomite_supafly]

What I would do is get a Sport, if you can find one, then use the extra money to add accessories to help it meet its requirements. Get a set of rails, foreward grip, magazines and a light.

Also, every single used Sport I have seen sell lately has sold for more than the purchase price. Not to many guns are able to do that.

Dolomite

[Wyldk2]

The s&w M&P sport was my first foray into the AR rifle line. My first real rifle ever i might add.( have, and started out with a winchester 10-22). I did a lot of research and just read the posts before i bought mine back in February of this year. All I added to it was a set of rails, an adjustable foregrip, a Bipod and a Barska red-dot acog sight. Think i spent around $700 for the gun, and about $250 in accessories. Not a bad deal for under $1000. Ammo was extra.

Rifle is sighted at 100 yards with the acog. So far i've put over 500 rounds thru mine ( target shooting) and haven't had any problems with the gun. S&W really makes a quality product for the money.

[tt0511]

Dolomite, I can't thank you enough for your assistance. I found another thread you provided a ton of information on for this same subject and all I can say is it's great to have such resources available!

I'm going to try to get my hands on a Sport this weekend if my brother in law's FFL can't get one quickly. Then I'll need some recommendations on optics and accessories. I like the look of the Magpul hand guards and forward grips.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Thanks for the kind words. If there is anything else I can help you out with please feel free to post it. Although I answer PM's nearly daily about AR's I prefer it be done in public. It helps everyone gain some knowledge rather than just a person or two.

Also, before you go about spending a ton of money on accessories get with some local AR shooters first. That way you can get an idea of how something feels before you spend the money. I can't tell you how much money I have wasted over the years buying something I though I would like but ended up hating.

Dolomite

[tt0511]

I'm also getting the FFLs pricing on the LE6920 and LE6920MP-B in Colt. Depending on how the pricing comes in I may spring for a Colt. That's the only other recommendation I consistently get from a broad spectrum of folks.

[Guest nysos]

Colt makes a good rifle, but these days I think you pay more for a name. If you wanted to step up in price a tad from the m&p, I would look at bravo company, and if you go a step above that I would consider daniel defense. I am not sure what dealer cost on a DD rifle is, but it may be out of your price range. Only reason I would drop the money on the right variant DD rifle is I would not have to change anything out - just add an optic.

[Dolomite_supafly]

And another option is most companies will assemble the rifle you want. I know BCM will.

Dolomite

[trevorst]

My DD m4v4 is quite possibly the perfect out of the box ar (for me...). The build quality is very high, if you are looking for an ar to buy and be done its very nice. I have a Colt 6920 also, mine is a fine rifle (I will admit it had a gas block issue with it that made it not like cheap ammo such as silver bear very much...) if I was paying the money for the colt I would just buy the DD. IMO the build quality on the colt isn't any better than the smith.

With all of this said, my s&w is more accurate than all of my other ar's (not including my 260 rem lol). The darn thing is almost as accurate as my Remington 700 sps tactical. And with that said accuracy at least for me is not the end all be all of this type of rifle (unless I have set it up to be a bench gun..), by the time you add a rail, upper receiver with fa and cover, and etc... You are pretty much at the price of the DD or a BCM. At least with the smith you can add on a little at a time or pick and choose the upgrades.

[LawVol]

You'd be hard pressed to beat the Sport. I did see Palmetto State Armory running a special on their Patrol Rifle this week. Comes with an Aimpoint Pro on the rifle for $999, which basically makes the rifle $600.

That's a helluva deal on the PSA rifle with an Aimpoint included. I also see that they'll put a midlength YHM rail and a lo-pro gas block on it for an extra $110. I believe that's what I'd go for if I was in the market.

[tt0511]

Dolomite, what do you think about the Smith 811053? http://shopdandtarms.net/magpul-556mm223-remington-inch-barrel-melonite-finish-buttstock-grips-matte-black-polymer-finish-p-43453.html?OBNsid=e1934856ae9a183064e96887f3eb773a

[Dolomite_supafly]

I would buy the Sport then add the Magpul goodies later. The Magpul stuff on the gun only makes up about $150. That gun is the Sport just with Magpul gooddies added.

I bet D+T can get you the Sport as well as supply you with the Magpul goodies for less than the Magpul version of the S&W. That way you can install the stuff yourself and learn a little about how the AR is built.

Dolomite

[Erik88]

Another +1 for the S&W Sport. I love mine. Currently adding magpul furniture to it.

[Jonnin]

Would you trust the Sport to home defense and SHTF coverage as well? I read some opinions that it was designed for sport shooting and shouldn't be relied upon for those roles. I dunno, they talked about trekking through the woods or breaking out glass and it having no dust cover. I don't see me trekking through the woods hiding from the commies, but who knows what'll happen in this crazy world.

Absolutely. I have used one of the M&Ps for a while now in 3 gun and for fun, and it has held up perfectly with several k rounds thru it, typical use (1 round in 3 seconds typical aim & shoot usage). I just got a second one to build a bump-fire gun, which WILL be for home defense. If you need to break a window with your gun, I think it will do it no problem. The exposed bolt will NOT do well if you pack it full of gooey mud, but a little dirt wont do much. If you are planning to wallow thru a mudhole, you will want to cover the bolt, some camo duct tape will work.

[McAllyn]

So, do I understand correctly that if I decide I want a forward assist and a dust cover, I simply swap out the upper receiver assembly with something like this for $99 and all the crying about "I wouldn't own an AR without a FA and dust cover" stops (from certain folks)?

http://www.bravocomp...upper -m4 2.htm

FWIW, the information you're getting "from certain folks" sounds like you're talking to "Operator" types that will put their gear and weapons through situations that you wouldn't come close to even IF the zombies came. Or they are "Mall Ninja Douche's" who have to have the "acceptable" logo or they will lose their Interwebz Badazz Status... I've never used the FA or DC on any of my AR's but I'm not in either of the above mentioned groups. Basically, if you read those posts and anyone uses the term "SANDBOX" you might want to scroll on past.

Mac

NON-ATAS

Edited September 20, 2012 by McAllyn

[Dolomite_supafly]

The only time I have ever used my FA is when I was doing a chamber check then quietly closing the bolt.

Other than that, never and I have been overseas several times. As was already said, those that spout this BS probably are just parroting their mall ninja friend.

I would only listen to those who have actually owned a certain gun not those who refuse to own a certain gun.

Dolomite

[Guest nysos]

Daniel Defense now has a build your own option for orders.

https://danieldefense.com/build-your-ddm4

[Guest ThePunisher]

Magpul furniture from Primary Arms shipped free. FS= free shipping

Magpul Moe carbine handrail= $28 FS

Magpul STR stock= $95 FS

Magpul pistol grip= $23 FS

Magpul Moe vertical grip= $22 FS

Elzetta flashlight mount= $32 FS

Flashlight= $40 to what ever you want to spend

For less than $200.00 not counting flashlight you can dress up the Sport real nice. This is what I put on my Sport, and I spent $80 on a Surefire light. You could buy a cheaper Magpul stock and bring down price a little.

[tt0511]

Cool beans. I hope to find out the pricing I can get tonight. If its as low as I hope I'm seriously considering a Daniel Defense. Otherwise I will heed all of this advice on dressing up a Sport. There's always the possibility of a Colt if the Sport simply isn't available.

I've heard that supplies are beginning to tighten and as the election nears, this will only get worse and cause prices to increase too. I don't want to get stuck waiting for that atmosphere to dissipate so the time to move on something is now, assuming the market info I hear is accurate.

Edited September 20, 2012 by tt0511

[dou44]

most people do not need the fa or dust cover, but i have them on mine.i carried one for 21 years in the army and they do come in handy if you have to carry one every day.if you are around sand you will want them.

[Guest ThePunisher]

Cool beans. I hope to find out the pricing I can get tonight. If its as low as I hope I'm seriously considering a Daniel Defense. Otherwise I will heed all of this advice on dressing up a Sport. There's always the possibility of a Colt if the Sport simply isn't available.

I've heard that supplies are beginning to tighten and as the election nears, this will only get worse and cause prices to increase too. I don't want to get stuck waiting for that atmosphere to dissipate so the time to move on something is now, assuming the market info I hear is accurate.

Primary Arms has DDM4v1 and v2 for $1399.00. Plus 10 free Pmags thru 9/24/2012

[Oh Shoot]

..

I've heard that supplies are beginning to tighten and as the election nears...

They tightened some time ago, at least on the Sport -- bought two this year. One local, $672 including tax, another later, even cheaper, from PSA, $655 including shipping and transfer. I'd be surprised if you can get one in the hand now for under $725.

- OS

Edited September 21, 2012 by OhShoot

[RichardR]

Personally I think S&W MP15's (both Sport & non-Sport variants) are some of the best value AR's on the market. While I do not own a "Sport" version I have shot a few and besides the lack of a dust cover and FA, I couldn't tell any difference between the Sport & non-Sport MP15's or any other quality AR for that matter.

I just wish the Sport would had been on the market when I was first started to get into AR's, they would have saved me a lot of dough!

[TMF]

I stopped using the FA after I left basic, where I was instructed to hit that stupid thing on the M16 every time I loaded it or did immediate action. Since basic training I've fired somewhere in the realm of 1/4 to 1/2 million rounds from just a couple of M4s, and have never used the FA unless doing a chamber check, which you could simply push the BCG manually with your thumb through the ejection port and it will go into battery.

As for the dust cover, I've experienced just about every torture test one can think of with my M4, and have determined that the dust cover is not necessary. Yes, in arid, dusty environments the ARs are notorious for malfunctioning. After the whole Jessica Lynch fiasco, where the investigation revealed that nearly every member of that unit had malfunctioning rifles, I decided to try and replicate the failures. Unlike AKs, ARs need lube in the desert. It's always good to lube your stuff anyway, but your AR will work just fine without it for quite a few rounds before it begins to fail. When you introduce fine dust to that equation it can cause it to malfunction. So the solution? Keep it lubed. You really don't even need to keep it clean so long as there is lube on it.

The next issue is the type of lube used. Unfortunately, many folks in the Army have been institutionalized to the point that they believe that the IET manual, FM 7-8 and the Ranger Handbook hold all the information necessary to being a grunt. Unfortunately, if you want to think outside of the box you have to figure out how the crap got into the box in the first place. Generally speaking, the only lubricant folks in the Army acquire for their rifles is CLP, which has a very thick viscosity. This is great for humid environments, like the jungle for example. However, when you get in an environment where the sand/dust is so fine that when you inhale through your nose you can taste it in your mouth and feel it in your teeth, you have to adjust your lubricant. If using a thick viscosity lubricant like CLP, the dust will "gum" up as it bonds with the CLP, and actually cause the weapon to malfunction with enough dust. The only answer in the field would be to continuously clean the rifle or flush it with more CLP and keep the dust cover closed. The simple answer is to use a thinner viscosity lubricant (thin as WD-40). We had some nifty stuff called "Strike Hold" which was awesome for the desert. Unfortunately, there were more carcinogens in a can of that stuff than in a truck of Marlboro Reds, so it was discontinued and we ended up getting "Strike Hold II", which was almost as thick as CLP. I just went with a thin viscosity Break Free and it was fine. This will keep the dust from bonding and coagulating in your rifle. CLP/dust gum can get bad enough to stop a .50. I've seen it happen more than once. I've also had my rilfe sugar cookied with dust, sand, hay, plaster, mud and probably cow poo, all with the dust cover open, and was able to fire it just fine, repeatedly for several mags. The take away from that is to go light when it's dry, and go heavy when it's wet, "so to speak" (as they say in the Air Force). Words to live by.

Out of all the rounds I've fired in austere environments, the only time I had a malfunction was due to the magazine or the bolt breaking. Other than that, the only malfunctions I've had on my M4 were malfunctions which I created. So what I'm saying is a dust cover is not necessary if you maintain your rifle properly and give it the correct care for the environment it is in, and that amounts to giving it lube in the proper form and amounts if you're going to subject it to certain tortures.

Edited September 21, 2012 by TMF