The Deciding Factor!

[Dennis1209]

Think about this for a moment on elections and the two political party system, or elections in general, and correct me if I'm confused or if my facts are skewed.

There's only two voting camps. Those that want something from the government (take from the productive and give it to the lazy, plunder) and those that want government out of their life and earn / keep their labor and wages.

Either a Democrat or Republican will become the next President and Commander and Chief.

Forty-nine percent of Americans receive some sort of government assistance, be it: welfare, food stamps, social security, earned income tax credit, disability, WIC, student grants, Section 8, and on and on and on. That's not even counting corporate welfare?

I heard somewhere, "when the population learns they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury", the party is just starting.

So, when you have about half the population wanting to diminish your ability to provide for your family and steal from your hard labor and earnings and give it to them, by force of law and the politicians choice of beneficiary, whom do you suppose will get elected? Hands out folks!

Who was it that said, "there's no free lunch"? Hell, we got Obummer care now you're going to pay for it if you have a job or business.

The government doesn't produce one bushel of corn or one barrel of oil. They either tax U.S. to death, borrow it, or run the printing presses overtime. They have already exceeded the limits of all three sources of income and we are insolvent.

Our debt is unsustainable and impossible now to pay back. Our grandchildren future have been mortgaged in debt. Unfortunately, a governments debt can not be held accountable, the people are held accountable for all debts, both public and private.

Welfare and you owes me has become the single most important factor in major elections by the other camp IMHO.

Look for another four more years of digging into your great grand children's well being and future, providing you earn your own keep.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Dennis1209

[vontar]

I heard somewhere, "when the population learns they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury", the party is just starting.

I believe this is what you are looking for.

Ben Franklin

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.

http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/poor_richard.html

[Mike.357]

Off the top of my head I disagree with the SS part of your statement. I pay into that.

I have no problem with welfare or food stamps for those that are truly in need through no fault of their own.

I am good with disability payments.

I am alright with student grants.

What pisses me off is people able to work but don't, generations of welfare recipients who know no better than to suck on my tit, people who make bad decisions over and over again but expect me to cover their nut, and paying for taking care of convicted felons.

I am sure if I thought harder I could come up with some others.

Basically those of us who work are screwed for those who want a free ride. And don't kid yourself, there are plenty of wealthy Americans who work the system for some added cake.

[Mike.357]

oh yeah. and to add I don't make anywhere near enough money to be considered middle class, unless less than 40K combined is considered that.

The comment from Romney about 250 K to 200K and less just plain old pisses me off. I am not voting for him. I was, but now I am not.

I hope the country falls to pieces at this point. I work my ass off to have what I have. And to have someone who wants me to back him compare me to someone making a quarter million a year just frosts my nuts.

Bless those that are fortunate to make that much.. But don't expect me to think they are in the same monetary class as I am.

[Caster]

49% ?

Bet you a dollar 95% of at 49% are a bunch of lazy dead beats. I'd love nothing more than to see the collapse of all social programs. SS is theft with fancy wrapping paper. It's a communist crap idea and a joke. Many will suffer for the greater good but it's all fat that needs to be trimmed.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Caster

[Major Kong]

I hope the country falls to pieces at this point.

Yeah, that'll show 'em.

[Mike.357]

Well you know what I meant Major, Caster probably said it a little more eloquently.

[mikegideon]

49% ?

SS is theft with fancy wrapping paper. It's a communist crap idea and a joke. Many will suffer for the greater good but it's all fat that needs to be trimmed.

Theft from who? I just got my statement. I started paying in the '70's. Are you suggesting the US should breach that contract? Like I've always said, give me what I paid in, and I'll STFU. Nobody, including Ryan is suggesting they steal that money.

[Caster]

I don't want to participate. I'm forced to. I will suffer the wrath of our wonderful government if I tried to circumvent paying that.

ANY system that takes from one person, against that persons will, and gives to others is theft. You are absolutely entitled to what you paid in, but most people will draw far more than they ever paid in. Can't convince me that it was profits for wise investments that allow people to get more out than they put in. Even if I'm wrong and it IS working that way the fact remains I DON'T WANT TO PARTICIPATE but I am being forced. You might as well called it armed robbery because if I refuse to participate and hold out long enough there will be an armed response by our wonderful government.

The system is communist crap.

Thankfully for you my friend, you're at an age where the likelyhood of you getting you money back is reasonable. My chances are a joke.

You make a reasonable argument to only want what you paid in. I'd be happy to make an equally reasonable offer. The crap system can HAVE the money I paid in if they will agree to go away and leave me alone.

[Chucktshoes]

SS is a pyramid scheme that has now turned upside down. That contract you thought you had is and always was a scam. SS has to end and somebody is going to take the haircut, the only questions are who and how much. SS has always been a tax just like income tax, it even all went to the same place. The people just willingly believed the lie because it was in their interest to do so, the kids be damned.

[Caster]

SS is a ponzi scheme that has now turned upside down.

Fixed that for you.

[Chucktshoes]

Thanks Caster. Don't know why my mind blanked on that word. Lulz.

[TMF]

Theft from who? I just got my statement. I started paying in the '70's. Are you suggesting the US should breach that contract? Like I've always said, give me what I paid in, and I'll STFU. Nobody, including Ryan is suggesting they steal that money.

That's what I always say. Last time I checked the amount I've paid in so far, if I got it back and could roll it into just my IRA I could turn that into a wealthy retirement income by the time I need it. I just want my money back. I would have no expectations after that if I only had that option.

[Sam1]

I go against some people by saying that we need assistance programs but they should be on a temporary basis only, ZERO EXCEPTIONS. Here's a bit of my breakdown:

If you drop out of high school weeks before your graduation, to be eligible for welfare then they should make it a 12 month wait where you get not a single benefit. If after the 12 months, you claim you are still inept, then you start working general labor jobs for the state/local government with no benefits at minimum wage.

If you get pregnant, there are 2 years of WIC or other support. Once that runs out, if you are not able to provide for the child, social services steps in with planning. This is a one time deal, you get pregnant again and you get a swift kick on the ass and no check in the mail.

If you become disabled, you should get a whole lotta nothing if you haven't paid into the system. If you have paid in, then funding should go for retraining in sedentary career fields or something the person is able to handle. There are a bunch of us on here that have become disabled and that just means we work harder to prove we can still do the work we were able to do prior to the incident.

Gov. needs to get out of the student loan market (not talking about grants), I have dealt with various private lenders since 2005 and the paperwork was easy to complete and submit. Recently I just started back on my way to a PhD (in IT field) and the amount of paperwork required and the speed (or lack thereof) of getting anything finished is ludicrous. Cant' say much about the grants because I get too pissed off. The fact that I could get grants for saying I am African American, and wouldn't be eligible for any of those if the caucasian box was checked is just Grants should be based on previous performance and nothing else.

Put these bums that are capable of working to work making license plates, moving, picking up trash and cleaning our government buildings. If they want to eat, they will start working... I find it absolutely reprehensible that we make it so easy for generational welfare (of any kind) to be acquired and at the same time, a poor person that is down on their luck and has worked all of their life, is almost ineligible to receive any benefits.

Gonna stop now, it's too early to get fired up!

Edited September 17, 2012 by Sam1

[Jonnin]

oh yeah. and to add I don't make anywhere near enough money to be considered middle class, unless less than 40K combined is considered that.

The comment from Romney about 250 K to 200K and less just plain old pisses me off. I am not voting for him. I was, but now I am not.

I hope the country falls to pieces at this point. I work my ass off to have what I have. And to have someone who wants me to back him compare me to someone making a quarter million a year just frosts my nuts.

Bless those that are fortunate to make that much.. But don't expect me to think they are in the same monetary class as I am.

Not to say you are wrong, but Romney is talking the entire USA. There are places in this country that make the cost of living in TN very, very attractive: we can do a LOT with a "lower" income because things here cost less. The home I have, that same money would not get me a rathole in the ghetto in NYC for example and I have a 2 story 4 bedroom here. 250k in some parts of this country is like 1/2 that here. Your income in some parts of the country would be starvation/homeless wages.

[mikegideon]

Not to say you are wrong, but Romney is talking the entire USA. There are places in this country that make the cost of living in TN very, very attractive: we can do a LOT with a "lower" income because things here cost less. The home I have, that same money would not get me a rathole in the ghetto in NYC for example and I have a 2 story 4 bedroom here. 250k in some parts of this country is like 1/2 that here. Your income in some parts of the country would be starvation/homeless wages.

I thought about that too. I can't think of any place in the US that is over 5X the cost of living in TN.

[TMF]

I thought about that too. I can't think of any place in the US that is over 5X the cost of living in TN.

NYC, greater DC and a few places on the Cali coast. Cost of living being mostly defined by home prices, not by the cost of a Big Mac. A while back when I was job hunting I was looking at property in a few of these high cost areas. It was at least 4 or 5 times the cost for something comparable to what I live in now.

[mikegideon]

NYC, greater DC and a few places on the Cali coast. Cost of living being mostly defined by home prices, not by the cost of a Big Mac. A while back when I was job hunting I was looking at property in a few of these high cost areas. It was at least 4 or 5 times the cost for something comparable to what I live in now.

Sure. But that should only be 25% of your income from a responsible lender. I have friends that own homes in those areas.

[TMF]

Right. I don't want to think about what the mortgage is like on a $750,000 house.

[Jonnin]

Right. I don't want to think about what the mortgage is like on a $750,000 house.

well its not so bad if you are making the aforementioned 200k a year ...

It would take at least a 3x increase in my wage to move to one of those places. I currently take home 60k so a 3x is 180k take home, and with the staggered tax laws, that becomes 200+ because more goes to uncle sam for the higher bracket AND a state income tax. Just to live about like I do here in TN.

[Links2k]

NYC, greater DC and a few places on the Cali coast. Cost of living being mostly defined by home prices, not by the cost of a Big Mac. A while back when I was job hunting I was looking at property in a few of these high cost areas. It was at least 4 or 5 times the cost for something comparable to what I live in now.

I know what you are talking about. I had a neighbor get a job transfer to Denver. He and his wife decided that the wife would remain in their home in Memphis while he completed his two year assignment because of housing cost. That assignment cost him his wife (Jody got her) and his job, because he went to jail after returning home unexpectedly and finding Jody living in his house.

[TMF]

well its not so bad if you are making the aforementioned 200k a year ...

It would take at least a 3x increase in my wage to move to one of those places. I currently take home 60k so a 3x is 180k take home, and with the staggered tax laws, that becomes 200+ because more goes to uncle sam for the higher bracket AND a state income tax. Just to live about like I do here in TN.

Yep, which is what I had to explain to the wife when I didn't go for those jobs. I talked about places, pay and options and all she heard was the pay. She thought making that kind of money was a lot there. Had to burst her bubble and inform her we'd be living in an apartment because the only homes we would be able to afford would be in crack town.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

SS is a pyramid scheme that has now turned upside down. That contract you thought you had is and always was a scam. SS has to end and somebody is going to take the haircut, the only questions are who and how much. SS has always been a tax just like income tax, it even all went to the same place. The people just willingly believed the lie because it was in their interest to do so, the kids be damned.

Now you went and done it! Bet you read a couple of Mark Levin's books, eh? Pisses me off thinking about that, too.

SSI has never been solvent. It's always been a money laundering scam.

That's what I always say. Last time I checked the amount I've paid in so far, if I got it back and could roll it into just my IRA I could turn that into a wealthy retirement income by the time I need it. I just want my money back. I would have no expectations after that if I only had that option.

Yeh, I'd like to get that back, also, plus the real estate the building it sits on. Then multiply those results on most everything else our dear government has gotten it's hands on.

Of course my retirement is Railroad Retirement, and a worse of a scam it is.

Mike.357, Mitt Romney was beat by use of that phrase (250K) by about three years Obama's tax giveaway except the rich.

He called people making 250K as middle income, but you probably knew that. I agree with you, anyway. That's the problem

with our tax code. It encourages pols to play one group against the other. That's what wrong about it, other than the fact

that there's nothing fair about it, in the first place. Hell, Joe Biden was pulling any number out of his ass while that was going

on. I think he got it down to 125K, once or twice. The 250K would have been great for you and I because it would have been

the threshold for the proposed tax increase, all things relative.

Didn't you say, a couple days back, you lost your job and had one the next day? For what it's worth, that ain't bad for a

bounce. Could have been much worse. Glad to see you were able to. I hope I don't lose my job, because it would be a

bigger bounce, if one at all. My best bet would be to somehow get disabled at my current workplace.

[TMF]

Mike.357, Mitt Romney was beat by use of that phrase (250K) by about three years Obama's tax giveaway except the rich.

He called people making 250K as middle income, but you probably knew that. I agree with you, anyway. That's the problem

with our tax code. It encourages pols to play one group against the other. That's what wrong about it, other than the fact

that there's nothing fair about it, in the first place.

Answer: Flat tax. The most fair you can get. No special discounts, and deductions, just flat tax. There is nothing more fair than that. Plus it will eliminate 90% of the IRS and prevent the elitists in our society from using every tiny loophole to pay a lower percentage than what I pay. The way it works now, you can increase the percentage that the rich pay all you want, but they'll just find ways to exploit the system because they have the money to do it.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The flat tax is buy it's nature the closest to fair that you can get.No disagreement here, but the fair tax kicks out all

the many levels of taxation between maker and taker. That's one agency that, at it's demise, would make a lot of

folks happy.

Get your tapatalk fixed? I quit using mine.