Map of Muslim Riots and Embassy Attacks

[10P8TRIOT]

All of this over a stupid youtube video ... yeah right.

Map created by and "borrowed" from bigdeal on SIGforum

As an effigy of obama and US flags were being burned all accross the Middle East, Jay Carney said that the riots are “in response not to United States policy, and not to, obviously, the administration, or the American people, but it is in response to a videoâ€. While flanked by 4 flag-draped coffins, Hillary blamed the video for the murdered Americans. This administration has got to be the most incompetent in history and thier incompetence was a major factor in the deaths of these men. Shame on them.

R.I.P. Ambassador Chris Stevens, Glen Doherty, Sean Smith and Tyrone Woods.

Edited September 15, 2012 by 10P8TRIOT

[GoneBallistic]

Yeah that's total bs. And I guess everyone heard the Marines guarding the embassies were forbidden to carry live rounds? Makes me so mad I can't see straight.

[10P8TRIOT]

I like AlfonZo's take on this ...

[Blitzen]

All of this over a stupid youtube video ... yeah right.

Map created by and "borrowed" from bigdeal on SIGforum

This administration has got to be the most incompetent in history and thier incompetence was a major factor in the deaths of these men. Shame on them.

R.I.P. Ambassador Chris Stevens, Glen Doherty, Sean Smith and Tyrone Woods.

Well said!

[atlas3025]

I like AlfonZo's take on this ...

That was awesome.

[Jonnin]

some of those places, I wonder that enough people HAVE internet AND understand the language the movie is in well enough to become enraged to the point of a riot. Hard to buy that.

[strickj]

some of those places, I wonder that enough people HAVE internet AND understand the language the movie is in well enough to become enraged to the point of a riot. Hard to buy that.

The video was aired on a news station with an anti-US "resist blasphemy" message.

Since then it appears that leaders in ~20 countries have spread the resist blasphemy demands. Very little evidence that anyone over there has actually viewed the video.

Hell, most of those places have bans on youtube type sites anyway.

[Oh Shoot]

some of those places, I wonder that enough people HAVE internet AND understand the language the movie is in well enough to become enraged to the point of a riot. Hard to buy that.

Thing is supposedly dubbed into several languages. Arabic language version on YouTube also.

Even the English version is dubbed, they're not the original words spoken by the English speaking actors, quite obvious just looking at the sync. Plus of course, the original actors say so, and one even had her original script still in her possession.

Also, the thing has been saved and passed around on puters and phones now.

I agree that likely very small % had seen it when all this cranked up last week, but I'd say it's readily available now.

Also available all over by FTP now, for anyone who has net connection, YouTube access certainly not needed.

And now, the whole 74 min thing is available, not just the 14 min trailer, which was all anyone could find up until a few days ago.

So whether it caused any of the initial SHTF at all around the world, it certainly now has legs to help keep it stoked, even if just used as a secondary excuse. Probably neighborhood block parties all over the Muslim world gathered at the nearest puter/smart phone that has a copy.

- OS

Edited September 19, 2012 by OhShoot

[TMF]

In EVERY country where there were protests and riots the film is illegal to possess or access online. Furthermore, the Internet services in those countries is heavily restricted, as anyone who has traveled through some of those places would know if they have dealt with the frustration of trying to access porn online while on the road. It's safe to say that the vast majority have not seen the video with the exception of clips aired on al Arabiya and al Jazeera, which would still be censored since they would not be able to show the actor who was depicting Momo.

Once again, remember that we are one of the last bastions of freedom in the world that enjoys free speech. This film could even be banned in some European countries as "hate speech". All the more reason to hammer this administration for their attempts to silence the film makers through intimidation and requests to Google.

[Oh Shoot]

In EVERY country where there were protests and riots the film is illegal to possess or access online. ..

Besides the technical illegality and sketchy net access, in your opinion are Muslims really that uniformly devout in their practices, all over the world? Like they're all Hassidic-Jews-who-keep-strict-Kosher type rigid?

Besides all the radicals, the rank and file ain't 50% sort of sinners like the normal folks with which I'm familiar?

- OS

[strickj]

Ohshoot, where are you getting that from?

About the only unrestricted net anyone has is foreign reporters using sat net. i haven't seen anything saying the clips are being viewed via the blasphemy internets.

Even the English version is dubbed, they're not the original words spoken by the English speaking actors, quite obvious just looking at the sync.

Doesn't mean it's dubbed (meaning replaced vocals). could mean they used cheap sync software.Audio is almost always recorded separately and sync'd with video in post

Edited September 19, 2012 by strickj

[TMF]

Besides the technical illegality and sketchy net access, in your opinion are Muslims really that uniformly devout in their practices, all over the world? Like they're all Hassidic-Jews-who-keep-strict-Kosher type rigid?

Besides all the radicals, the rank and file ain't 50% sort of sinners like the normal folks with which I'm familiar?

- OS

No, I would say that "devout" is in the eye if the beholder. I would reason to bet that the vast majority of the "extremists" (usually males between 15-30) are the worst offenders in terms of forbidden behavior in their chosen religion. Ironic, huh? Some of the best places to collect on the al Qaeda types ain't at the local mosque. This is experience talking and not just theory.

The point I was making before had nothing to do with how pious the extremists are; it was about the level of government intervention into their lives, as well as the level of involvement of the community.

First off, they're probably not going to attempt to access this stuff anyway, as they're not known for seeking out information to combat ignorance. They are okay with just being pissed without knowing why. Secondly, if one did obtain copies of such a film he would be risking jail or potentially death, depending on what country he resides in. Not to mention that a neighborly angry mob can be spun up on a moments notice to knock down Haji's door and drag him through the streets upon information about him possessing anti-Momo material, regardless of his reasons for having it. And then you have to consider the general sneakiness of the Arab culture, and how willing one is to rat their neighbor out to the authorities for reasons ranging from attention to disputes dating back generations.

Then there are the Internet restrictions. Everything good is blocked. That includes anything depicting Momo. In fact, especially anything depicting Momo. Next time I travel through a Muslim country I'll attempt to access this thread, and I bet I won't be able to do it.

So, based on all these reasons it's safe to say that very few, if any, of the general population in these countries have even seen it.

Edited September 19, 2012 by TMF

[Dolomite_supafly]

Besides the technical illegality and sketchy net access, in your opinion are Muslims really that uniformly devout in their practices, all over the world? Like they're all Hassidic-Jews-who-keep-strict-Kosher type rigid?

Besides all the radicals, the rank and file ain't 50% sort of sinners like the normal folks with which I'm familiar?

- OS

From my experience if they can get away with it they will, even if it is against the Koran. Every single local DVD merchant had videos in the back that were outlawed by the Muslim religion yet sales were always good. I have seen them drink heavily providing the roof is thick enough that Allah can't see them. They will eat stuff even if it isn't prepared according to their religion. They extort anyone they can. They lie, cheat and steal if they think they can get away with it. And other members of society generally don't care because they do it also. It is only when one person is taking more than his fair share they get upset. Again, this is all providing Allah can't see them

Public officials are very corrupt. Karzide was one of the biggest dealers in things illegal prior to becoming president. We would get requests from local lords to stop and seize property of other lords who were smuggling booty. We didn't but they would offer to buy the seized goods as well as pay for safe passage.

They are devout in their prayer rituals, that is about it. The entire country of Afghanistan it seems has a national PA system to play the call to prayer.

Something funny about their culture. If a person has a problem they rarely get worked up about it. It is their random spokesman that does. I can't count how many times I have been dealing with a person and had to go through a middle man that wasn't our interpreter. Seems like the spokesman was always more upset than the person who had a problem. The spokesman would even negotiate and seal the deal without the original complainant's input.

Dolomite

[TMF]

From my experience if they can get away with it they will, even if it is against the Koran. Every single local DVD merchant had videos in the back that were outlawed by the Muslim religion yet sales were always good.

Absolutely. But the anit-Momo stuff would never, ever makes its way into the market. For some reason that would not be okay. Little boy porn is A-okay though, so long as they're dressed like a woman. For all the sh** I talked about Iraqis, Afghanis have to be some of the worst, backward people on the planet.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Absolutely. But the anit-Momo stuff would never, ever makes its way into the market. For some reason that would not be okay. Little boy porn is A-okay though, so long as they're dressed like a woman. For all the sh** I talked about Iraqis, Afghanis have to be some of the worst, backward people on the planet.

Amen brother!

Like we used to joke about how for them women are for making babies and boys are for fun. Funny thing is they NEVER took offense to that statement.

Dolomite

Edited September 19, 2012 by Dolomite_supafly

[TMF]

Amen brother!

Like we used to joke about how for them women are for making babies and boys are for fun. Funny thing is they NEVER took offense to that statement.

Dolomite

I thought all the stories I heard were bull until I was sitting down having tea in an Afghani Officer's office and he decided to show off a video of a young boy dancing around in ladies clothes in a room full of old Afghani men clapping and cheering. The worst parts of this experience is that the officer was proud to show it off and we had to act like we weren't completely disgusted by this. Later my terp explained that they have boys that they groom from a young age for this practice by making them as feminine as possible.

The obvious solution to this sick society: ALLOW YOUR WOMEN TO BE FREE. THEY WILL LET YOU BANG THEM IF THEY WEREN'T AFRAID OF BEING PUT TO DEATH FOR IT!!! It absolutely blows my mind that the irrational fear of women becoming powerful and usurp the power of men could create such an environment that it is socially acceptable to dress boys like women and screw them. I don't understand. I just don't understand.

[Oh Shoot]

....Doesn't mean it's dubbed (meaning replaced vocals). could mean they used cheap sync software.Audio is almost always recorded separately and sync'd with video in post

No no, forget technical opinion only, it's known now that much of the English is absolutely dubbed, at least on the "trailer". The script that was shot was in no way the same as the movie when it was first shown. The actors were told the movie they were making was called Desert Warrior, and actors that have come forward all say those are not their words during filming (or rather videoing), and not even their voices. The lady with a copy of her part of the original script is pretty solid proof, plus at least one of the voice over folks has come forward too.

I haven't taken any time to spot check the full movie to see it all of it is same as trailer which contains most of the parts that diss Mohammed the most.

- OS

Edited September 19, 2012 by OhShoot

[Major Kong]

Maybe Obama should tell the Muslims to stop clinging to their guns and religion.

[Oh Shoot]

....About the only unrestricted net anyone has is foreign reporters using sat net. i haven't seen anything saying the clips are being viewed via the blasphemy internets.

Well, from what TMF and Dol are saying about Muslim real life behavior, seems to me it's very likely that by now many have now seen the thing. All you need is the file on puter or phone or DVD player. It doesn't have to be sold to get around.

I've said all along that it's unlikely many had seen at the time the original protests started, but I'll bet it's spread all over the place now even with zero net access.

- OS

Edited September 19, 2012 by OhShoot

[Jonnin]

to be fair, catamites have existed in most ancient cultures, and persist in europe, asia, and americas as well. It may not be mainstream and is often illegal, but the boys are still sold and abused and filmed. They are not unique in this in any way. I think you can still rent one legally in some of the really open places in asia. Young girls are also abused. All this has been going on since the dawn of time, just some places more openly than others.

[jtmaze]

I will totally agree with Dol and TMF. My daughter dates a Saudi exchange student at UTM and he is the most respectful boy she has ever brought home. He drinks more than I do. He and I have had long conversations about everything from guns to religion. His father is a retired general in the Saudi army and he has told me the stories of the parties at Princes' houses and how the government works. Labor Day w/e we had a back to school party for all there friends. There were about 15 Saudi guys here that were the most respectful partiers I have ever had at my house. Only 3 weren't drinking. Only one was semi-devout. Number one they are all named Mohammad or Abdul, so they use nicknames. They even say that. And they all love bacon. Think it is the greatest thing around. They don't eat it regularly but all have tried it and love it. These guys are mostly Sunni Muslims and I have asked about sinning. The answer I got was no one is perfect so they are all going to hell, it is just a matter of how long you have to stay there. Keep in mind I have not studied Islam, I am just going on what everyday(not extremists) Muslims tell me. We Christians have oppressed people in the past. The Crusades..hmmm. I think part of the problem is these people in most cases are oppressed by their own governments and are looking for an outlet. Shalani(daughters boyfriend) tells stories of not being able to do things that we think nothing of. Can people be misguided in any religion. Yes. Look at the Roman Catholic Church, they ruled Europe for centuries.

JTM

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TMF]

Well, from what TMF and Dol are saying about Muslim real life behavior, seems to me it's very likely that by now many have now seen the thing. All you need is the file on puter or phone or DVD player. It doesn't have to be sold to get around.

I've said all along that it's unlikely many had seen at the time the original protests started, but I'll bet it's spread all over the place now even with zero net access.

- OS

Well, that wasn't quite what I was getting at with my explanation. Yes, the extremists are usually the biggest offenders of their religious code, especially related to sex and controlled substances, but when it comes to the last Prophet, Mr. Momo, they take that seriously for some reason. I know it is illogical, but attempting to apply logic and reason to an illogical people who are unreasonable by nature is an exercise in futility. Just take my word on it, they aren't watching it nor is it readily available in this part of the world.

The best way I can explain it is that when they are engaging in sins related to their weaknesses as humans (such as porn, sex, lying, boozing, sheep raping) they justify it somehow by blaming things like temptation, and they'll make up for it with other deeds or something... like blowing themselves up for magic Momo. But when it comes to the actual Prophet, believe me they take that stuff seriously. Anyone possessing that kind of stuff would be dragged through the streets and beaten to death if the mob gets him before the popo. Many of these countries have the death penalty for blashemy as well. That extends to this movie... especially now. If you remember back a few weeks to the story about the mentally handicapped little girl who was being held on blashemy charges for using a few pages of the Quran as tinder? Remember random angry mob that tried to publicly execute her? They take insults to the religion seriously. Engaging in all the temptations that Momo told them not to, well, it's okay if it's in God's blind spot. Anyone here that has been around Afghans and watched them through thermals while they're on guard know exactly what kind of sick people they are, despite what Momo told them not to do with their peckers.

to be fair, catamites have existed in most ancient cultures, and persist in europe, asia, and americas as well. It may not be mainstream and is often illegal, but the boys are still sold and abused and filmed. They are not unique in this in any way. I think you can still rent one legally in some of the really open places in asia. Young girls are also abused. All this has been going on since the dawn of time, just some places more openly than others.

I guess I'm just pretty sheltered then. I'd only heard about this in Astan or in Thailand jokes from Marines and PACOM guys. Nonetheless, any culture that openly accepts this kind of stuff is in my book cultures I'm okay with hating.

Edited September 20, 2012 by TMF

[Jonnin]

Sheltered indeed. Here in the us, parents sell their kids, and traffickers bring in young ones from mexico, and the runaways & abducted & desperate of course, or the get rich child porn industry, and the child abusers like that football guy or the olympic swim coach in the news this week, etc.....

[Dolomite_supafly]

To give you an idea of how seriously they take things.

We had an American worker who found part of a Koran. The book had been torn apart with pages laying around on the ground. The American, knowing it was very important, picked up all the pieces. He then turned it over to our terp who, in turn, turn turned it over to an Afghan worker on base. Within hours most of the Afghans on base were demanding to know which American had touched their Koran. They wanted to kill the American for disresepcting Allah. They said that a non-Muslim is not allowed to touch the Koran and because he did they needed to burn the items he touched as well as kill him for Allah. We had some serious security issues for weeks because of it and actually fired a bunch of workers as well as guards because they could not get beyond it. We even flew the American out to safeguard him.

Being caught with something like the video would be a death sentence for the average Afghan.

Dolomite