Mentally prepared to pull the trigger??

[Guest jackdog]

Guess I'm lucky. Due to some extensive close quarters combat at various times, I know exactly what I will do. I won't think(hesitate)or blink I will end the threat. Will I have night mares? Think I'm past that at this point, Had all these long ago. Will I feel bad? No I will be in defense of my life, maybe some one else's.

[The Rabbi]

Guess I'm lucky. Due to some extensive close quarters combat at various times, I know exactly what I will do. I won't think(hesitate)or blink I will end the threat. Will I have night mares? Think I'm past that at this point, Had all these long ago. Will I feel bad? No I will be in defense of my life, maybe some one else's.

Do you think it will make a difference that your experience was war time?

I dunno. I feel sorry for anyone who approaches you with hostile intent. By the end of the encounter they'll have dropped and be giving you twenty.

[Guest jackdog]

I don't believe that you can really condition ones self to take a life. It is in my opinion that it is a learned skill. I think most people here could pull the trigger, at least on one occasion, after that maybe maybe not. The edge for some of us is that we have seen enough death or caused the end of enough life that we are callous to this type of action. Trust me when I tell you that to get to that point you pay a high price, and you learn to live with it, if not you go nuts or become a drunk or a homeless person or whatever.

[The Rabbi]

But I'm already those things!

[Guest jackdog]

Rabbi no I know it won't. There are things you do in war time that still amount to murder.

At some point I think you become less human. I know that I've have never regained all of my humanity.

[Guest jackdog]

lol well I used to drink a hell of a lot, but can't say I've ever been homeless.

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi no I know it won't. There are things you do in war time that still amount to murder.

At some point I think you become less human. I know that I've have never regained all of my humanity.

The idea of killing someone who is a threat to me doesn't really bother me. What does bother me is the idea that maybe it might have turned out differently if I had done something else. Maybe the situation wasn't quite as I perceived it. Maybe he was playing a stupid joke. I would feel pretty bad if it turned out that way and the possibility of that more than anything else would prevent me from pulling the trigger.

[Guest racr28]

I have pulled the trigger mant times in combat, but every situation is different. I would hope my infantry training takes over and I would act without too much hesitation, but who knows.

[Guest jackdog]

Most everyone will hesitate to some degree Rabbi, but a few of us will not. You have to keep the mindset that you had no other option, second guessing will drive you nuts, and if theres ever a second time it could get you killed. Heres a couple of ideas that might help. Put a shirt on your target under the shirt place a zip lock bag full of tomato juice. The more realistic you can make a target the better conditioned you will become to following through if you ever have to. Remember the BG chose the situation that caused him to die, not you. It was his or her choice not yours.

[Marswolf]

How many of you think that society has trained us to feel badly if we take a human life, even in self defense? How many think that is not learned behavior but innate from the time we are born?

[The Rabbi]

I think it's learned behavior because generally the issue comes from empathy. "That could be me lying there" causes the most pain. And that kind of feeling only comes a little later in life, like childhood. Of course some people never develop it.

As I say Jackdog, a good shoot itself wouldn't really bother me. If I had been in Sinkers liquor store when the 2 guys tried to rob it I dont think I would be bothered by shooting them (and killing one). It would be disturbing, like a car accideent, but that's different. There it was obvious what was going on and what needed to be done.

[Guest darkstar]

How many of you think that society has trained us to feel badly if we take a human life, even in self defense? How many think that is not learned behavior but innate from the time we are born?

Thats an interesting question. Probably the philosophers could answer it.

[Guest rj8806]

Good question....wide range of responses. I wasn't prepared when I went to Iraq in Desert Storm(regardless of what my CPT told everyone). I wasn't prepared and still have a hard time with the fact that I have taken life before. Nobody , military or otherwise, is going to be prepared, there is no such thing(unless your just a cold blooded killer). You just have to deal with it when the time comes.

Richard

[Punisher84]

I think this is one of the healthiest discussions I've seen in a long time! I think Jackdog hit it on the head when he said you lose a bit of yourself, but I really just believe that my right to live and be with my family and friends far outweighs anything I could feel for someone who wanted to hurt me or my family. I just don't think of them as human. I think the situation would bother me for a bit, but the actual taking of a life I don't think it would.

[memphismason]

I think this is one of the healthiest discussions I've seen in a long time! I think Jackdog hit it on the head when he said you lose a bit of yourself, but I really just believe that my right to live and be with my family and friends far outweighs anything I could feel for someone who wanted to hurt me or my family. I just don't think of them as human. I think the situation would bother me for a bit, but the actual taking of a life I don't think it would.

I agree 100%

ps...Note to self, never spill your guts again, nobody cares.

[Punisher84]

ps...Note to self, never spill your guts again, nobody cares.

Actually, I thought it was a very good story. It was similar to my one time encounter, except mine was in a Wal-Mart parking lot at 4 am. It's odd to have that flash in your brain that says "This is it, it's going to be now".

[saintsfanbrian]

Okay - I have had to ask my self a couple of times if I am willing to give up my life for something that I believe in. The answer is yes.

Now, am I willing to take someone else life in order to protect myself, my family or another who is incapable of protecting themselves? I have asked that question a couple of times and the answer was yes.

Do I know I will pull the trigger? Nope and I don't think ANYONE can say for sure unless they are in the situation. Mars and others who have been in combat have seen men with a lot of training freeze under the pressure. They have also seen people that when backed in to a corner literally or figuratively will use any means necessary to protect their life.

If some kid kicked in my door thinking they were being cute I don't think I would hesitate to fire a round in their direction as the door was being kicked in. Would I be sad that some ones child is now dead if that were the result? Maybe, but I would also be thankful as hell that my family is safe.

Remember, the person committing a crime has already asked themselves if they are willing to die for what they are doing. They have made their decision. It is up to you to make your own.

P.S. Jason, we care we are just letting your nerves calm down a bit. Glad you didn't have to end some ones life, but the punks should have known better than parking that close to another vehicle in an empty parking log.

The best way to end a fight is not to start one to begin with.

[Guest db99wj]

yep, memphismason, what they said.

I have asked myself, I hope that the training I have gotten will take over and get me through it. I have no idea if I will or what will happen afterwards, and I hope I never find out. But I have trained to take action.

I thought I was going to have to pull mine when a charging aggressive homeless guy approached me, I screamed Get the F.. back and he did.

[Guest clutepc]

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Edited June 4, 2008 by clutepc
didn't fit the post...

[Guest bkelm18]

Am I mentally prepared to take a life? No. Will I if I need to? Yes. Thats really all that needs to be said about that.

[Guest jackdog]

Mars in response to your question, I think that we are taught and conditioned to value life. This seems to be the reason that gang bangers and ghetto rats seem to have little problem hurting people. They have learned from their environment that taking a life or hurting people for what you want is an alright thing to do. A lot of people with a heavily religious background, are at the other end of that scale, many would lose their life rather than take one.To me that ironic when you consider the multitudes of death through history that have been taken in the name of god or Allah or whoever. Hey that still on going today they call it jihad. I don't think that there is any available training that one could get that would give any degree of certainty that they would pull the trigger other than living in an environment that made killing folks a normal day to day activity.

Edited June 4, 2008 by jackdog

[mac12]

Great thread.

Once I was in a situation that I pulled my shirt behind my holster and had my hand wrapped around the grip, and was very close to pulling it, but when the potential BG saw my hand on my gun, he pulled both hand out of his pockets and said "No, No, No, I am good guy, I am good guy."

I went into American General to pay a bill, and it was just getting dark, around 6:00pm or so, (winter) and I didn't have my gun on my side, it was still in the center console of my truck. When I arrived, the guy that was waiting for me to show was standing outside the store smoking, so when I got out of the truck he was watching me and talking to me, so I didn't put it on my side.....in and out right????

Well when I was leaving a small blue car pulled up on the driver side of my truck, put it in reverse and maneuvered closer to my vehicle, so that only one person could fit between the two vehicles. Parking lot is empty all around my truck, so there is no reason to park this close.....so.....

I start walking out of the building, a Man gets out of the passenger side of the car, and starts to try to look into my driver side window (my windows are tinted, so I am sure it was hard to see), as I got closer he looked at me, and looked back into the car to the guy that was driving and laughed. This is when I reached for my gun and then said "Oh S*#T".

Well I walked to the passenger side of my truck, hit the unlock button, opened the door, hit the lock button, and reached across and opened my console and got my gun an holster out and placed on my side (paddle holster) and then shut the door. I walked around the front of the truck, and saw the man standing there next to my truck, the other guy is still sitting in the car, with it running, and this man on the outside sticks his right hand in his pocket.

I then put my hand on my gun, turned that side to him, and that is when he start saying "no, No. No". So I told him to move so that I could get into my truck, he walked out past the truck, and I walked to my door, unlocked the door, opened it, and then drew my gun behind the door, in the low-ready position, just incase, because now I made it easy to get in the vehicle. He motioned for the driver to come on, and I thought again "Oh S*#t", but he cut the car off, got out, and they starting walking to the restaurant that was three of four store fronts down the way.

I was breathing hard, and my adrenaline was pumping. Oh yeah the whole time I had my wife on the phone held up to my ear with my left hand. As soon as I put my hand on my gun, I said to her "I am fixing to have to shoot someone", and that is when mother nature took over, sweating, breathing hard, heart about to beat out of my chest.

After driving about 3 miles to my house, my heart was still beating hard and my hands were shaking, my wife couldn't believe the state I was in, and still as I am typing this my hands are shaking a little. But I had made up my mind that I was fixing to kill someone, and my nerves could prove it.

I know I would have done what was needed, but definitely the aftermath would be tough.

Sorry for the story going on so long, just hope my experiences might help someone else.

What if this guy had his HCP also and was, let's say, a little strange. When he noticed you with your hand on your gun he felt threatened and drew his weapon. Could have been a really bad scene. Another thing you have to be prepared for if that is possible.

[Punisher84]

What if this guy had his HCP also and was, let's say, a little strange. When he noticed you with your hand on your gun he felt threatened and drew his weapon. Could have been a really bad scene. Another thing you have to be prepared for if that is possible.

Whether he had a HCP or not it's a reasonable fear because of the way he was acting. Mason would have been in the right had the guy drew on him or come at him. An HCP does not give you an excuse to act aggressive or like a dick.

[Fallguy]

Whether he had a HCP or not it's a reasonable fear because of the way he was acting. Mason would have been in the right had the guy drew on him or come at him. An HCP does not give you an excuse to act aggressive or like a dick.

+1

[The Rabbi]

Whether he had a HCP or not it's a reasonable fear because of the way he was acting. Mason would have been in the right had the guy drew on him or come at him. An HCP does not give you an excuse to act aggressive or like a dick.

Really? But what if I'm quicker 'n' you?