Stopping theft with deadly force

[Caster]

So you would be willing to kill a person over a toy truck?

I know you didn't ask me, but; It has nothing to do with a toy truck. It has everything to do with getting rid of a worthless waste of oxygen, for that's all any thief is. Let him go today because he didn't steal much and he'll be back tomorrow for your car, you wallet and maybe even your daughter. I think this country is so pathetic and soft for accepting this and sugar coating a turd by trying to attach a dollar value to it.

Worthless and weak is tolerance for this behavior.

Just think what kind of changes for the better your neighborhood would go through if you could push a button and all thieves would suffer cardiac arrest on the spot. You could have a block party, not lock the doors, and the women could grill some burgers and make some lemonade while the men do a walk through pitching bodies in a trash truck. I could take half the keys I have off my keyring. Yeah, I'd push that button. I'd probably sprain my finger I'd push it so hard.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Caster

[maroonandwhite]

I know you didn't ask me, but; It has nothing to do with a toy truck. It has everything to do with getting rid of a worthless waste of oxygen, for that's all any thief is. Let him go today because he didn't steal much and he'll be back tomorrow for your car, you wallet and maybe even your daughter. I think this country is so pathetic and soft for accepting this and sugar coating a turd by trying to attach a dollar value to it.

Worthless and weak is tolerance for this behavior.

Just think what kind of changes for the better your neighborhood would go through if you could push a button and all thieves would suffer cardiac arrest on the spot. You could have a block party, not lock the doors, and the women could grill some burgers and make some lemonade while the men do a walk through pitching bodies in a trash truck. I could take half the keys I have off my keyring. Yeah, I'd push that button. I'd probably sprain my finger I'd push it so hard.

Awesome.

[Guest bkelm18]

I know you didn't ask me, but; It has nothing to do with a toy truck. It has everything to do with getting rid of a worthless waste of oxygen, for that's all any thief is. Let him go today because he didn't steal much and he'll be back tomorrow for your car, you wallet and maybe even your daughter. I think this country is so pathetic and soft for accepting this and sugar coating a turd by trying to attach a dollar value to it.

Worthless and weak is tolerance for this behavior.

Just think what kind of changes for the better your neighborhood would go through if you could push a button and all thieves would suffer cardiac arrest on the spot. You could have a block party, not lock the doors, and the women could grill some burgers and make some lemonade while the men do a walk through pitching bodies in a trash truck. I could take half the keys I have off my keyring. Yeah, I'd push that button. I'd probably sprain my finger I'd push it so hard.

So yes, you would kill someone over a toy truck?

[JAB]

IF LEGAL would I shoot someone over a television set? No.

IF LEGAL would I shoot someone over breaking in and stealing my television set? Damn skippy.

To some, that might seem like the same thing but to those who understand where I am coming from, it is not. In the case of the latter, the act of breaking into my home (even if I am not there at the time and simply come home to catch someone walking out the door with my stuff) should absolutely justify the use of deadly force, IMO, whether my life is being threatened or not. The same goes for stealing my vehicle from my driveway and so on. A free citizen should not be legally constrained from responding to such a trespass with any available means - up to and including deadly force - as long as use of such force does not endanger any innocent bystanders.

Further, contrary to what some folks believe, there are material possessions that absolutely can not be replaced. My great-grandmother's antique bed is the only one in existence because it was hers (even another exactly like it - if one could be found and purchased - would not have that connection.) The same goes for the firearms I have inherited from family members - there may be thousands more 'just like them' out there but only one of those was or will ever have been my dad's, my grandfather's and so on. Stealing those items would be stealing memories and, therefore, would be like stealing a part of my life. That is much more serious - and a completely different situation - than simply lifting a microwave I might have bought at Walmart the week before, etc.

Further, I personally don't care if the thief loses all chance at redemption, rehabilitation and so on. As others have said, that isn't my responsibility and it matters not, to me. Of course, the law being what it is I wouldn't use deadly force simply to protect property but my restraint would be for purely legal reasons and would have nothing to do with any ethical qualms on my part, whatsoever.

Think of it this way - if a foreign government sent troops into the U.S. and onto a U.S. military base to steal Jeeps, etc. would the U.S. military personnel just let them go, figuring that those vehicles and maybe a few guns weren't worth taking lives? Or would they threaten deadly force or even use deadly force to stop them? In fact, that would probably be seen as an act of war. To me, a person breaking into my home is no different - it is just a smaller scale of the same idea, is every bit as much an act of 'war' on my person and property and justifies the same level of response (from an ethical standpoint although not, at least at this time, from a legal standpoint.)

Edited September 14, 2012 by JAB

[Guest bkelm18]

IF LEGAL would I shoot someone over a television set? No.

IF LEGAL would I shoot someone over breaking in and stealing my television set? Damn skippy.

Well, that's one of the first sensible answers in this whole thread.

Of course if somone breaks in to steal, that's a different ball game. Safe to say their intentions are not good and defending yourself would be prudent.

However simply killing someone because they are a thief if it were legal, which is essentially what this thread boils down to, is utterly ridiculous in my opinion and anyone claiming that they would happily do so over something inconsequential is laughable. It's easy to talk big talk on the interwebz. In that case, delusions of grandeur are acceptable I suppose, but if they are serious, I suggest some serious introspective thought, or at least a visit to a shrink.

[Chucktshoes]

Well, that's one of the first sensible answers in this whole thread.

Of course if somone breaks in to steal, that's a different ball game. Safe to say their intentions are not good and defending yourself would be prudent.

However simply killing someone because they are a thief if it were legal, which is essentially what this thread boils down to, is utterly ridiculous in my opinion and anyone claiming that they would happily do so over something inconsequential is laughable. It's easy to talk big talk on the interwebz. In that case, delusions of grandeur are acceptable I suppose, but if they are serious, I suggest some serious introspective thought, or at least a visit to a shrink.

Meh, I have a distinct lack of empathy for other people. IMHO the vast majority of the people I encounter on a daily basis are nothing more than mouth breathing oxygen thieves. So, when you suggest I seek professional help because I have no compunctions about shooting them when the cross the line from stealing oxygen to stealing someone's property, I'll pass. I like not liking people.

[Caster]

So yes, you would kill someone over a toy truck?

And you think that's wrong huh?

Correct me if I am mistaken but have I not read posts of your where you claim to support a woman's right to choose? Explain the difference in killing a useless thief? That's so much worse than some gutter slut murdering an innocent child, who quite possibly, despite all odds could have become a productive member of society is it? Getting rid of some scumbag puke piece of is morally decadent but some whore killing a CHILD because she couldn't keep her filthy legs crossed isn't?

It's true this country is broken beyond repair. There's never been a place or time throughout recorded history where people so vehemently protect evil.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Caster

[jeepbus]

Few things in real life are completely black or white.

The punk grabbing my pink flamingo from front yard probably shouldn't be shot as many times as the punk who takes my pink car.

- OS

You know I don't post a lot on here ,I do read almost every post though. Me and ohShoot have had some discussions in the past . But damn it man I have to agree with my ol buddy oh Shoot here 110% haha I couldn't have said it better!

[Jesse]

I wouldnt want killed for stealing. So i wouldnt try and kill someone for stealing. Your just not killing the person stealing you are also ruining their loved ones lives. Death is a big deal to me.

[Caster]

I wouldnt want killed for stealing. So i wouldnt try and kill someone for stealing. Your just not killing the person stealing you are also ruining their loved ones lives. Death is a big deal to me.

If you didn't "want killed for stealing" wouldn't it be a heck of a lot easier to just not steal?

Edited September 14, 2012 by Caster

[Guest 270win]

Has it ever been legal in Tennessee to stop felony theft with deadly force? I have heard that kind of changed in Arkansas in the 1970's.

[Chucktshoes]

If you didn't "want killed for stealing" wouldn't it be a heck of a lot easier to just not steal?

This. Stupid games, stupid prizes.

[gjohnsoniv]

Well my challenge to anyone on here talking big about how they would put a round in the first person taking something is this; prove it. It's easy to talk big on the internet with impunity. I can guarantee most of us would not pull the trigger on a kid taking a candy bar.

Another point to consider. Shouldn't you also be shot for taking the life of someone taking a material item? I mean they might be stealing a bike but you're taking their life. Now this is not a reason to allow them to be stealing said bike, but we all act like moral compasses. Yet some of you act like it's no big thing to kill someone over laughably small things. Are either of you do the right thing?

[QuietDan]

Cross my threshold as a thief in the night and prepare to forfeit your life. It's not about the value of the property stolen, it's about crossing the threshold.

[gjohnsoniv]

^^^ This.

[Caster]

Well my challenge to anyone on here talking big about how they would put a round in the first person taking something is this; prove it. It's easy to talk big on the internet with impunity. I can guarantee most of us would not pull the trigger on a kid taking a candy bar.

Another point to consider. Shouldn't you also be shot for taking the life of someone taking a material item? I mean they might be stealing a bike but you're taking their life. Now this is not a reason to allow them to be stealing said bike, but we all act like moral compasses. Yet some of you act like it's no big thing to kill someone over laughably small things. Are either of you do the right thing?

Thats why the muzzies cut people's hands off for it. One of the few things I agree with them on.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Caster

[gjohnsoniv]

Thats why the muzzies cut people's hands off for it. One of the few things I agree with them on.

Now see that's a little bit more reasonable than death. I believe more in an eye for an eye, not a candy bar for a bullet.

[TMF]

So you would be willing to kill a person over a toy truck?

Probably not, but the circumstances would dictate. The point I was making was stopping a non-violent crime with violence is a non-issue for me. If someone is stealing from me I will stop them, no question. I won't stand idly by and allow things to be taken from me. Generally speaking, criminals don't respond to requests to obey the law, so some wall to wall negotiations should be assumed. If the criminal attempts to fight I should have the right to shoot him until he stops.

And no, some of us don't have a moral issue with taking the life of someone who is victimizing our family. Perhaps from your perspective that is either BS tough guy talk, lack of morality or a combination of the two. I can assure you that some folks here, to include myself would not miss a wink if sleep over it. That isn't talk, that is truth.

[TMF]

Well my challenge to anyone on here talking big about how they would put a round in the first person taking something is this; prove it. It's easy to talk big on the internet with impunity. I can guarantee most of us would not pull the trigger on a kid taking a candy bar.

No, you're right. I don't think that was point of the scenario. A kid shoplifting a candy bar is quite different than a grown man making off with my truck that I spent 4 years paying off. I should ABSOLUTELY be able to shoot somebody to prevent them from getting away with that.

And your challenge to have someone here prove their "badassness" by shooting a shoplifting kid is just silly. First off, the point of the thread was a notional change of the law. Secondly, you assume that everyone here values life in the same manner that you do. I promise you that I don't.

[daddyo]

Cross my threshold as a thief in the night and prepare to forfeit your life. It's not about the value of the property stolen, it's about crossing the threshold.

Winning post right here.

[gjohnsoniv]

No, you're right. I don't think that was point of the scenario. A kid shoplifting a candy bar is quite different than a grown man making off with my truck that I spent 4 years paying off. I should ABSOLUTELY be able to shoot somebody to prevent them from getting away with that.

And your challenge to have someone here prove their "badassness" by shooting a shoplifting kid is just silly. First off, the point of the thread was a notional change of the law. Secondly, you assume that everyone here values life in the same manner that you do. I promise you that I don't.

Your first part I agree with, and I did run my mouth a little bit. For that I apologize. The thread seemed to take a turn (in my view) of people saying they would pretty much kill, no questions asked. That is what caused me to rant a bit.

Regarding your last point; I am aware not everyone values life the way I see it nor do they have my particular set of morals.

Edited September 15, 2012 by gjohnsoniv

[Jesse]

If you didn't "want killed for stealing" wouldn't it be a heck of a lot easier to just not steal?

Yes i wouldnt steal now... but teens and kids do stupid thing , i stole a air pump out of a yard when i was 14 to air up my bike tires. I learned from my own mistakes so I glad the owner did not kill me over the pump.

[runco]

I really do not care much for Muslims, but in some of the Muslim countries, a thief has their hands cut off, as opposed to death. I like that. Maybe someone should invent a round that disolves in the body (no death), but then releases toxins that causes indexes or hands to dry up, fall off etc (little sadistic I know). So when a thief is stealing from me, I shoot, and then that theif will no longer steal again, but will enjoy life without hands/fingers, etc. Have you ever seen a handless person wipe their rearend? I haven't either, but I suppose it is a real chalenge or smelly or fly infested situation. Any non-thief person reading this post without hands, I am not making light of your situtuation, just thieves!

[TMF]

The way I understood it from the OP was that this was a question of protecting property, not punitive measures in response to the actual stealing. Obviously death does not fit the crime, but using deadly force should certainly be an option to protect what's yours as a last resort. At some point in the last century people began believing the myth that police were there to protect you and recover your property, while criminals are good people deep down that can be rehabilitated. Both are myths. Before that they just shot someone who was making off with a stolen horse.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

Tbh...not sure if I could kill someone over a object that can be replaced.

I hate thiefs just as much as the next guy but killing someone is who steals is a huge deal.

Now if it comes to protecting myself..my child or husband..I think in a dire situation..like them or us situation..I think I could.