Deleted upon request

[Guest DeadPatriot]

OK, I figured out how to get rid of my original post. I do apologize, and thank you for your patience.

Anita (the other half of deadpatriot)

Edited September 18, 2012 by DeadPatriot

[Guest HvyMtl]

Um. Hi Kris. Did you ask the forum owner to get permission to ask for funds on his site? I presume this is your key interest, as you point us towards your funding website.

Who are you? I know you link 3 sites, but really, are you who you claim to be? (This is the internet, after all, please prove you are who you say you are...)

And why would you ask such with a single post as your post count?

(I have not gone to the links yet)

(This is post 1337 for me. I am now leet. XD )

Edited September 12, 2012 by HvyMtl

[Guest FIST]

CCW is limited to "Rich Elitist" and the 2nd Ammendment to "The White Man" his links say. I'm not sure where your going with this film?

[c.a.willard]

Best of luck in your film, but like any fundraiser you may of had better luck if you would of attempted to build rapport with your target audience before linking a fundraiser sight. I'm with FIST on not being sure on the direction of the documentary. Not speaking for the group but personally i don't see members of this forum donating to unknown individuals who did not take the time to read the code of conduct (see below).

5. No unauthorized soliciting.

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Unapproved commercial advertising should never be posted by members of our community. This means that unless you have sought authorization from the TGO Staff to post a commercial advertisement for goods or services, you may not use advertising language in posts made to the forums. Specifically:

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Authorized vendors are exempt from these restrictions.

[MattCary]

Thank you for playing, we have some lovely consolation prizes for you.

[Guest DeadPatriot]

Sorry for the abrupt intro, and thank you for allowing me to post here. The documentary is in production, and we are trying to get the word out to everyone, everywhere, who might want to know about it. We are a small production company capable of doing good work, and that's why we're posting here, and everywhere in America about this film. We don't have the big bucks for a standard marketing scene, so we are using social media. Lots of folks are very interested in seeing this documentary get produced; we want not only the highest technical quality, but also with fair and informative content, the kind of production that invites reflection of one's own viewpoints and stereotypes of gun owners and those who oppose firearms as well.

Hope no one is offended by it, and once again, thanks for your input.

[Guest DeadPatriot]

You might also listen to this interview https://www.yousendit.com/download/TEhXNWNnQ3Q1aWIwZXNUQw

[Guest DeadPatriot]

CCW is limited to "Rich Elitist" and the 2nd Ammendment to "The White Man" his links say. I'm not sure where your going with this film?

Can you obtain a CCW permit in urban America? Gun laws have had a tendency to favor the rich and restrict the 2nd Amendment for the minority and the poor. Rich actors can obtain a CCW in LA but the average Joe can't. I'm not going anywhere with the film - I plan to show the extremes of how the 2nd Amendment restricted.

[Chucktshoes]

Can you obtain a CCW permit in urban America? Gun laws have had a tendency to favor the rich and restrict the 2nd Amendment for the minority and the poor. Rich actors can obtain a CCW in LA but the average Joe can't. I'm not going anywhere with the film - I plan to show the extremes of how the 2nd Amendment restricted.

I don't think you can get much more "urban America" than Memphis/Shelby County, and we have more than 10% of the permits for the entire state of TN. I would be careful to not base your entire film off of the perspective of CA. CA is a different animal than the rest of the country. That caveat aside, I would definitely encourage you to explicitly show the racist origins of most of this country's gun laws. Far too many people are unaware that in the US gun control and Jim Crow have the same parents.

[TMF]

I'm sorry, I missed the part on my HCP application where it said "whites only".

[Guest DeadPatriot]

I hear ya, but please pull away from the historical context and realize that there are many urban communities, today, which you can't get a permit under any reason. Why is that? Tennessee may be more progressive but we shouldn't ignore the plights of our fellow citizens - California, Chicago, Washington DC, New York....

[TMF]

I hear ya, but please pull away from the historical context and realize that there are many urban communities, today, which you can't get a permit under any reason. Why is that? Tennessee may be more progressive but we shouldn't ignore the plights of our fellow citizens - California, Chicago, Washington DC, New York....

That has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with a consistently leftist government elected in those cities and states. The fact that there are a lot of minorities there means nothing. The same could be said of many other cities with a large population of black Americans: Atlanta, Memphis, Birmingham, Jacksonville and so on. All these cities allow their citizens to carry a firearm if they meet the legal requirements.

The fact is, in the areas you speak of the government doesn't want ANY of its citizens to be armed, regardless of skin color. The only part I agree on is that the elitists are the only ones allowed to carry a firearm, or have an armed personal security detail.

Sorry, I won't support any cause that continues to support the myth that because I'm white I receive some sort of preferential treatment. I've worked hard to get to where I am, and it was without help from anyone.

[Oh Shoot]

I hear ya, but please pull away from the historical context and realize that there are many urban communities, today, which you can't get a permit under any reason. Why is that? Tennessee may be more progressive but we shouldn't ignore the plights of our fellow citizens - California, Chicago, Washington DC, New York....

Kali: very few folks get a permit, black or white in the major population counties. Movie stars, politically connected, big rich, etc.

Chicago: You can't carry a gun in the entire state. It's not just Chicago. Only state that issues NO carry permits by law. Cornfield or ghetto all the same.

DC: The federal government is more restrictive of gun rights than most every state in the union. We can't carry guns in any federal building in the US; you know, the ones "we" "own".

NYC: Same as Kali. White folks are just as restricted as blacks, except for the few than have an "in" of one type or another.

It's true that many of the gun laws in the South were originally Jim Crow laws. There are remnants of them left, all archaic and unenforced, just never purged, left over from the 1800's. Aside from historical interest, they have no import.

Anyway, point is, race/income/population density are just not valid factors in relation to the handgun carry permit process -- you're tilting at a windmill that doesn't exist.

- OS

Edited September 14, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest DeadPatriot]

Hi, this is Anita, a team member of this production, and I thank you all for this feedback. Its like having a home-grown "advisory board" without all the pain-in-the-butt formalities. Our production is still in its early stages, and your honest up-front reaction is a lot more helpful that the tentative, up-talking, smug and convoluted kind. Bring it on, we can take it, and it will help us make a better doc!

[Oh Shoot]

Hi, this is Anita, a team member of this production, and I thank you all for this feedback. Its like having a home-grown "advisory board" without all the pain-in-the-butt formalities. Our production is still in its early stages, and your honest up-front reaction is a lot more helpful that the tentative, up-talking, smug and convoluted kind. Bring it on, we can take it, and it will help us make a better doc!

Howdy, welcome aboard.

If you haven't included them in your research, you can't do much better for state by state and nationwide info re carry laws, permits, may issue vs shall issue, etc than:

http://www.handgunlaw.us

and for open carry more specifically:

http://www.opencarry.org

http://opencarry.org/maps.html

is good starting place there

They also have a state by state forum like this one, most just not as active, but still extensive.

both sites are kept quite up to date, in some cases even better than the individual states government sites themselves, and all the pertinent info is there as map overviews, or individual state PDFs (click on the state in overview map).

best,

- OS

Edited September 14, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest DeadPatriot]

Excellent - bookmarked and ready for researching all weekend. Thank you, OhShoot!

Anita

[Clod Stomper]

If you are interested in researching the racist roots of gun control, you may want to check out JPFO.org. They have made several documentaries concerning this very issue. http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/movies.htm

Thanks for what you are trying to do. It's good to see more and more people taking our rights and the suppression of them seriously.

[DaveTN]

I would only offer this…

If you are making a 2^nd amendment argument; you are dead before you get started. That question has been answered by the SCOUTS. There is going to be no Federal carry laws. At least not that you will like. The Federal government isn’t going to tell the state of California they have to let you carry a gun; they don’t have that authority.

You need to convince the state that you have a natural right to protect your life. Its common sense and a lot more states are headed that way.

I would like to see Tennessee be the 5^th state to recognize a carry right for all citizens. Good luck though; California recognizing a right to carry would certainly be a tremendous help for other states.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

It's true that many of the gun laws in the South were originally Jim Crow laws. There are remnants of them left, all archaic and unenforced, just never purged, left over from the 1800's. Aside from historical interest, they have no import.

Anyway, point is, race/income/population density are just not valid factors in relation to the handgun carry permit process -- you're tilting at a windmill that doesn't exist.

Not refuting what you say, but racism and class issues probably had SOME influence on gun control legislation, national, state and local, for one thing-- other places than the old south, and for another thing-- well into the 20th century. Perhaps not primary or sole motivation for such laws, but contributing factors, sociologically/politically.

The trick would be to accurately discuss race/class factors while neither on one hand over-emphasizing such factors, or on the other hand pretending that racism/classism/politics had absolutely nothing to do with it.

It would be perhaps easy to treat the issues in a section of a documentary by interview with a few biased history professors or whatever. Raise the issues while showing the answers are not cut-and-dried. But actually getting to an un-biased comprehensive view might be difficult. Am not saying that it is impossible to find unbiased historians, but many will tend to color interpretation according to personal bias. I'm not a historian and am ignorant of the field, but being a good historian is hard work. Finding a "most realistic perspective" on the influence of race/class on gun law sounds like a bunch of long hard work by someone who knows how to be a historian.

For example the "brazen historical malpractice" which first won perfessor Bellesiles fame, wealth and adulation, followed a couple of years later by shame and loss of tenure at Emory. This link holds many other good links to the sordid affair-- http://www.wmsa.net/bellesiles.htm

Am just saying, it is probably just as easy to find pro-gun historians playing fast-and-loose with the facts, selectively ignoring data, or just plain being ignorant with poor workmanship. We would need a skilled historian and also absolutely unbiased, which is a tall order today, and perhaps always was a tall order? A rare commodity?

For instance, california banned loaded open carry in 1968 (signed by Gov Reagan) about the same time that black panthers and some radical SDS-type white boys had taken up the practice of open carry. California was essentially a conservative republican stronghold at that time except places like Berkeley. Maybe black men toting shotguns downtown and gun-toting SDS radicals had absolutely nothing to do with how the california representatives voted on that law? Just saying, they never banned loaded open carry when it was just rural conservative whites doing it. Racism surely wasn't the only motivation for that california law. The state was in the process of "drifting left" at the time. OTOH open carry couldn't have been banned without cooperation of conservative politicians. I just don't know "how much" was racism and classism, compared to other factors. It would be interesting to know.

There are economic and cultural issues which probably tend to "suppress" licensed carry by low-income folk in TN. It isn't "against the law" but the expense of getting a carry license in TN surely keeps some folks from getting a carry license.

[Oh Shoot]

.....There are economic and cultural issues which probably tend to "suppress" licensed carry by low-income folk in TN. It isn't "against the law" but the expense of getting a carry license in TN surely keeps some folks from getting a carry license.

Certainly, as per current influences, this aspect seems clear. $200 or so plus the hardware ain't hay for folks living on the edge.

- OS

[personDJ]

I for one thank you for what you are doing. If some want proff of who you are let them find out for themself. I did not read anywhere on your post you asking fore money. I believe you are trying to get the word out and posting here about what you are doing should be helpful. HOW RUDE some are. If i say something to someone and they act as if they don't believe me then I don't speak to them again. GOOD POST

[Guest DeadPatriot]

If you are interested in researching the racist roots of gun control, you may want to check out JPFO.org. They have made several documentaries concerning this very issue. http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/movies.htm

Thanks for what you are trying to do. It's good to see more and more people taking our rights and the suppression of them seriously.

Thanks, Clod Stomper - Yes, Kris saw the No Guns for Negros doc, and it has impacted him as well. Their site is bookmarked and on our interview list.

[Guest DeadPatriot]

I would only offer this…

If you are making a 2^nd amendment argument; you are dead before you get started. That question has been answered by the SCOUTS. There is going to be no Federal carry laws. At least not that you will like. The Federal government isn’t going to tell the state of California they have to let you carry a gun; they don’t have that authority.

You need to convince the state that you have a natural right to protect your life. Its common sense and a lot more states are headed that way.

I would like to see Tennessee be the 5^th state to recognize a carry right for all citizens. Good luck though; California recognizing a right to carry would certainly be a tremendous help for other states.

Yeah, that is understood, and we're hoping to make some impact with this doc at least to the citizens of Calif. who don't realize what they're up against.

[Guest DeadPatriot]

The trick would be to accurately discuss race/class factors while neither on one hand over-emphasizing such factors, or on the other hand pretending that racism/classism/politics had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Anita here - yeah, You Said It, Lester. This production is very challenging. I think we can do it. But there is a LOT of research and interviews in front of us. I sure do appreciate all of the intelligent input.

[Guest DeadPatriot]

Thanks, PersonDJ...my skin is growing as thick as an alligator.