We keep letting this idiot insult Israel. What's going to happen?

[TMF]

The Constitution was created for a moral and religious society, it was known it would not work otherwise. Our founding fathers adapted most laws "policy" based on English law and biblical scripture.

Not true. And, based on your assessment, non-Christian Americans should have no voice in Government, or at least a less legitimate voice. Why not just make it official and make non-Christian votes fractional.... just throwing out a number, but let's say 3/5ths.....

[Guest 6.8 AR]

You're smart enough to know that our economy runs on oil. We can't enjoy our way if life without it. In fact, without it we would see famine on a scale much higher than during the great depression. Unless you believe that all those big rigs on our highways run on sunshine.

And the Iranians (Muslims) do believe in the Old and New Testaments, consider themselves children of Abraham, and believe that Jesus is the Messiah.

I know that, but that wasn't what I intended. Trashing the Bible wasn't part of this discussion. I wanted to hear why

Mike357 took the opportunity. It was distasteful and unnecessary. It goes on too often when all it does is enflame

the argument. Finished with that.

The oil issue is replaceable with many other areas, including on and around our own shores and that is being stifled

at every turn, has been for decades.

I'll always side with Israel.

[Mike.357]

i think we are born with a moral compass.

I don't know if we happened at random or if something had their finger mixing the primordial soup. But it certainly was not some invisible being.

And as you point out

As a nation we're rapidly going down the path of societal self destruction and self only

If we are a christian based nation just how well is that working.

[TMF]

The oil issue is replaceable with many other areas, including on and around our own shores and that is being stifled

at every turn, has been for decades.

In a perfect world we would be energy independent and could let the mid-east consume itself. Unfortunately, OPEC controls the oil market and can raise and lower the price of a barrel at will. To be at odds with the Saudis would make an already dire situation even worse. We need them for now. Trust me, I have no love for the Saudi royals. If my truck ran on spotted owls I would prefer that to giving money to the friggin Saudis.

[Mike.357]

I know that, but that wasn't what I intended. Trashing the Bible wasn't part of this discussion. I wanted to hear why

Mike357 took the opportunity. It was distasteful and unnecessary. It goes on too often when all it does is enflame

the argument. Finished with that.

I did not trash anything. You bring the bible and religion into discussion and when someone comments in disagreement on it you act like some terrible deed was committed.

I did not bring it up, you did. I doubt you are done with it.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Mike.357

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I guess I don't see it like you do. Someone else did and you take the opportunity to call it a book of fiction. Israel

and Iran take the particular books of fiction it very seriously, since their history is chock full of experience with the

subject. I just tend to try to understand where the problem came from, not take a cheap shot at someone else's

beliefs. I respect Israel's situation and only slightly understand where it came from. Understanding it is key to doing

what's right over there and over here. I didn't intend for it to be a religious argument. That's for others to make.

Not to say opinions about religion are out of order, but some comments could be made much more politely.

[RobertNashville]

Once again I am amazed at folks' willingness to set governmental policy or actions based upon their personal religious beliefs.

My personal religious belies are at the core of who I am as a person...they have guided me throughout my entire life...they serve as a guidepost for finding my way through life and as a standard to live by.

I'm not going to beat people over the head with my religious convictions but of course I'm going to work toward government policies that are in line with those beliefs; to do otherwise would make me a liar and untrue to who I am.

Edited September 12, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Guest 6.8 AR]

In a perfect world we would be energy independent and could let the mid-east consume itself. Unfortunately, OPEC controls the oil market and can raise and lower the price of a barrel at will. To be at odds with the Saudis would make an already dire situation even worse. We need them for now. Trust me, I have no love for the Saudi royals. If my truck ran on spotted owls I would prefer that to giving money to the friggin Saudis.

Our energy policy is part and parcel to why we are in the situation we're in. I don't think it's the best time to mess with any

relations with the Saudis, either. And aren't they parting their airspace for Israel? They aren't part of the problem stirring,

otherwise.

[TMF]

Our energy policy is part and parcel to why we are in the situation we're in. I don't think it's the best time to mess with any

relations with the Saudis, either. And aren't they parting their airspace for Israel? They aren't part of the problem stirring,

otherwise.

Yes. I was surprised when I read that. I guess I underestimated their hatred of Shias. I brought up the Saudis because of their influence amongst OPEC. Bush did very well keeping that relationship maintained. I don't think we would have such a favorable position if it weren't for the Saudis, but they are still shifty and not to be trusted. I would like for a day to come where we didn't depend on them for our oil prices. As China projects itself globally in the next few decades we will have a big problem on our hands if we're still dependent upon those relationships.

[Links2k]

I could care less about any religion and that isn't why I am against it. For me, it is purely about spending billions of dollars on something that we don't have the money for. Almost everyone on this board is fiscally conservative and we complain all of the time about wasting money for this or that.

The fact is, we each have our own priorities and we have our own reasons for believing so. We will never convince each other that what we believe is right or wrong based on our own beliefs. In the end, I am sick and tired of paying (a lot) of taxes for things that I don't consider the priority. For me, we should be paying down our debt and if that means Isreal and everyone else has to make thier own way, so be it. I am not a humanitarian. There have always been bad things in this world and there always will be. When we figure out a way to pay our own bills, then we can worry about helping everyone else.

My two cents.

I'll agree with you. Before another penny is sent overseas we should ensure that there isn't one mentally ill or homeless veteran walking our streets. That our borders are secure and our roads and bridges are safe for our children to go to fully funded schools. I have no problem with our tax dollars being spent on these items.

[Chucktshoes]

I'll agree with you. Before another penny is sent overseas we should ensure that there isn't one mentally ill or homeless veteran walking our streets. That our borders are secure and our roads and bridges are safe for our children to go to fully funded schools. I have no problem with our tax dollars being spent on these items.

With you, except that I think that our schools are more than fully funded. The waste and bloat built into the system and protected by political patronage is what is sucking the funds away from the kids.

[Oh Shoot]

...So you have to make a personal choice: the guy is either a nut on par with the guy who thinks he is superman and jumps out a window, or he is valid.

A third logical "choice" is that Jesus never existed at all, since there is zero documentation of this Nazarene fellow during his purported life time.

- OS

[Caster]

A third logical "choice" is that Jesus never existed at all, since there is zero documentation of this Nazarene fellow during his purported life time.

- OS

I like you ole' buddy but I'm glad we don't play golf together.

That whole "out in an open field together" thing.

This thread could head south faster than a redneck in New York City. Let's remember we fight for the same causes here in this world.

[RobertNashville]

A third logical "choice" is that Jesus never existed at all, since there is zero documentation of this Nazarene fellow during his purported life time.

- OS

Actually; whatever you believe about Jesus; there is non-biblical evidence of his existence including Roman historians Thallos, Pliny the Yonger, Suetonius and the most widely know, Tacitus.

It's not exactly a "birth certificate" but if we use that standard then BHO doesn't exist either.

[Dennis1209]

Actually; whatever you believe about Jesus; there is non-biblical evidence of his existence including Roman historians Thallos, Pliny the Yonger, Suetonius and the most widely know, Tacitus.

It's not exactly a "birth certificate" but if we use that standard then BHO doesn't exist either.

And the first century Jewish historian Flavis Josephus to name one more. He's a wealth of historical information and factual history.

[Oh Shoot]

Actually; whatever you believe about Jesus; there is non-biblical evidence of his existence including Roman historians Thallos, Pliny the Yonger, Suetonius and the most widely know, Tacitus...

Um, Pliny the Younger, Suetonius, and Tacitus were not even born during Jesus' purported lifetime, so you might explain how they could have written about him then? That's what "contemporary" means.

Who is "Thallos"?

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

And the first century Jewish historian Flavis Josephus to name one more. He's a wealth of historical information and factual history.

You also don't seem to understand the word "contemporary". Josephus' scant mention of Jesus occurs some 60 years after Jesus' purported lifetime.

No part of any of the Gospels were written during Jesus' lifetime either, otherwise they might have historical value regarding his actual existence rather than only the religious claims.

- OS

Edited September 12, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Well, whatever floats your boat. This isn't anything what I intended.

Lions vs Christians 21-0

[RobertNashville]

Um, Pliny the Younger, Suetonius, and Tacitus were not even born during Jesus' purported lifetime, so you might explain how they could have written about him then? That's what "contemporary" means.

Who is "Thallos"?

- OS

And I suppose you have copies of their birth certificates to show when they were born?

[RobertNashville]

If people want to believe that Jesus never existed; fine...you can "believe" anything that makes you feel better but very few archeologists or other historical scholars actually believe or even purport that Jesus did not exist.

[Oh Shoot]

And I suppose you have copies of their birth certificates to show when they were born?

Their lives are quite well documented. Unlike Jesus and Barack.

- OS

[Hozzie]

If people want to believe that Jesus never existed; fine...you can "believe" anything that makes you feel better but very few archeologists or other historical scholars actually believe or even purport that Jesus did not exist.

I actually know and believe that Jesus exists. He works for the local landscape company trimming bushes.... I couldn't tell you about 3000 years ago, never got into that one.

That's a joke (well mostly) for anyone wanting to take that too serious.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Hozzie

[Oh Shoot]

If people want to believe that Jesus never existed; fine...you can "believe" anything that makes you feel better but very few archeologists or other historical scholars actually believe or even purport that Jesus did not exist.

What a sweeping and convincing overview and argument.

I merely mentioned there is no contemporary evidence of Jesus' birth, life, or death. It's not even a religious argument, just one of historical fact, or rather, lack of it.

It was in response to the contention that one must either believe in Christ as a supernatural being or not. I merely pointed out a third and quite logical possibility.

Sorry for the aside: back to whether we go to war in concert with the Jews or not. Even though they're all going to hell since they deny Christ, right?

- OS

Edited September 12, 2012 by OhShoot

[RobertNashville]

Their lives are quite well documented. Unlike Jesus and Barack.

- OS

* Edited September 12, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Hershmeister]

I actually know and believe that Jesus exists. He works for the local landscape company trimming bushes.... I couldn't tell you about 3000 years ago, never got into that one.

That's a joke (well mostly) for anyone wanting to take that too serious.

We have a winner!