Is it Legal to Sale Personal reloaded ammo?

[lshel]

If you have excess reloaded cowboy type ammo in a particular caliber, is it legal to sale? Not on going sales, but one time sale of one or two calibers.

[Caster]

Nope.

You can give it away as far as I know but selling it requires a manufacturer's license and the appropriate tax stamps put in place.

Even if it was legal, it's very taboo to shoot other people's reloads.

[JeffsSig]

Can you show a LAW on that caster?

[Caster]

Can you show a LAW on that caster?

http://atf.gov/firea...ufacturers.html

Q: Is a person who reloads ammunition required to be licensed as a manufacturer?

Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit. No, if the person reloads only for personal use.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a) (i) and 923(a), 27 CFR 478.41]

Edited September 7, 2012 by Caster

[TripleDigitRide]

It doesn't sound like he's trying to sell ammunition for the purpose of livelihood and profit.

Edited September 7, 2012 by TripleDigitRide

[mikegideon]

http://atf.gov/firea...ufacturers.html

That doesn't include the OP's question. You can't sell a bunch of guns either without a license. I know it's taboo, even though I'll shoot reloads from friends that I trust.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Sell away. You are just not going to do it on here because selling reloads is, even only once, in violation of the law without proper licensing.

Also realize that no matter how careful you reloaded the ammo all it takes is single problem to ruin you. Even the accusation can ruin you to defend a personal injury lawsuit. It takes thousands just to hire an attorney. Then relying on a jury to make a judgement in your favor would be to risky.

Dolomite

Edited September 7, 2012 by Dolomite_supafly

[R_Bert]

no decent answer, especially without assuming loads of risk,

trade it for components that you need...

edited to add (among friends and not TGO)

I will add, that I let folks shoot my reloads all the time....but in my guns.

I also am willing to teach them and let them load their own, using their supplies, on my equipment.

Edited September 7, 2012 by R_Bert

[Caster]

It doesn't sound like he's trying to sell ammunition for the purpose of livelihood and profit.

I think we can all agree the ATF are a fickle group of people. The term profit can be torn apart pretty easy. You may not turn a profit on what you have in it, but they will say that the money you received was more than you had before you sold it, so you profited from the sale.

In a circle of close friends and guys you trust, things are different but to a random person, no way.

Either way it goes, I have TGODavid's word on the matter and as Dolomite said, it's a no no on TGO.

Ishel, for what it's worth brother, I'm sorry, I understand. I have gotten overzealous in my loadings more than once, only to find I don't need any of it and then what do you do? It sucks.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Caster

[Superman]

How do you reload to much ammo? You will shoot it sooner or later.lol

[monkeylizard]

Not if you had a batch of reloads then sold your one firearm that uses that caliber.

[Caster]

How do you reload to much ammo? You will shoot it sooner or later.lol

You load a few thousand for a certain caliber, then, for one reason or another, you no longer shoot that caliber.

One example: I have recently screwed my shoulder up as well as developed a good bit of eye problems that muzzle blast exacerbates. I cut all larger centerfire rifles from my inventory. I had several thousand .308's loaded. I got stomped on that one because the bulk of it was loaded with 168g Amax in Hornady match brass. Pulling it down wouldn't have landed me much return. Thankfully I have a "friend or two" that took care of it. It hurt to see match grade loads I developed fed to a 1919.

[Ray Z]

Got to have the license. We can't forget Uncle Sam and Aunty Clinton. But all disgust aside, If I were to sell reloaded ammo, along with the proper licenses, I'd have to have a couple of million in liability insurance. With all that cost in the budget, you'd have to load millions of rounds a year to pay for overhead.

[lshel]

Thanks for the advice. I got out of cowboy shoots and had loaded alot of 357 mag reloads. You usually shoot about 100 rds per match. I guess I'll slowly shoot it all up. Thanks again for keeping me out of trouble.

[JeffsSig]

( Just to show how one can read into this how they want) ( It is no concern to me who sells what where) BUT

If you take that stand on reloads that NONE can be sold even when the posted info says "Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit."

Then why is not the same stand taken on guns themselves?

The following is from the same site the above info was pulled from about the sell of guns.

The term “engaged in the business†means--

* * *

© as applied to a dealer in firearms, . . . a person who devotes

time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade

or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through

the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not

include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of

firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or

who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms. . . .47

The 1986 amendments to the GCA also defined the term “with the principal objective of

livelihood and profit†to read as follows:

(22) The term “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit†means

that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents.

So Bottom line I would think some guns sold here would fall into the same way of thinking would it not?

I maybe off base here and thats fine if I am.

[TGO David]

I think it's safe to say that there are some members on TGO who have bought and sold enough firearms in a short enough period of time that it's certainly raised the eyebrows of the BATFE. One case in particular comes to mind from several years ago where some guys were flipping guns quick enough that they were investigated for potentially making straw purchases.

Trust me. They do watch.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

They can watch all they want, but

that clause stating"livelihood and

profit" has meaning. If Caster had

200 extra of his .308's still laying

around and couldn't use them and

I offered to reimburse him for his

trouble or expense, What profit or

livelihood has Caster benefitted?

Now, repetitive transactions may

cause one reason for concern. A

profit motive appears.

Prudence and reading those regs

would go miles around here, and

the ATF can watch all they want.

I hope those fools die of boredom,

their agency, that is.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[enfield]

Arguing with David and the mods will get you nowhere.

[Guest bkelm18]

Arguing with David and the mods will get you nowhere.

Who is arguing? People are discussing the definitions and the legalities regarding something. Something that has happened thousands of times on this board. I didn't see anywhere where they questioned David's rules.

Edited September 8, 2012 by bkelm18

[gregintenn]

As I read the law, I believe you can sell them. However, David is the law here, and what he says goes.

I personally don't think selling your reloads is a wise idea. Let's assume you've loaded them all perfectly. Some guy buys them, shoots some, and for whatever reason, his gun blows up and he gets injured. Now you're in court defending yourself. Right or wrong, it's a big problem and expense for you.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I think I abide by the rules around here. No argument intended, but I would appreciate people not reading

something into something that doesn't exist. An ATF reg can say one thing and can be interpreted by many,

including the ATF, incorrectly. When they use the words "pecuniary", "livelihood", "profit" and "principal objective",

somehow I doubt the OP is trying to engage in this.

Those kind of dealings are best left between people you know, anyway, but I can't grasp the idea of it being illegal

just because someone read a reg incorrectly.

It's interesting how other branches of our dear government has used this kind of reasoning and the wrong kind

of politics to regulate community gardens and a farmer selling milk to his neighbor. I would hope an individual

would still be able to breathe on his own, one day.

Not a single remark I've made has anything to do with this forum. Just my opinions about everywhere else.

I still consider the individual as a sacred part of society. I wish others felt the same.

[BigK]

Let's say I had 500 loaded rounds and don't need/want them any more for whatever reason. Could I sell them for the EXACT cost of the components if the buyer "intended to pull the bullets and reuse the components"?

[TGO David]

Guys, you can actually go out and sell a boat-load of guns, ammo, etc. without having a license to do so and someone will buy it all from you and others will argue your "right" to do so on a forum ad nauseum. What matters at the end of the day is that when the BATFE comes knocking on your door, their interpretation of the law is what is going to prevail at that moment and it may end up costing you quite a bit of money (and potentially freedom) to assert your counterpoint in court.

Certain aspects of firearms ownership are pretty black and white. Others have varying shades of gray. Those gray areas are the problematic ones and wherein monsters lurk.

I'd greatly prefer that folks not sell their reloaded ammo on TGO if for no other reason than the simple fact that by disallowing it we're protecting people from themselves and from badly loaded rounds.

[tnhawk]

As I read the law, I believe you can sell them. However, David is the law here, and what he says goes.

I personally don't think selling your reloads is a wise idea. Let's assume you've loaded them all perfectly. Some guy buys them, shoots some, and for whatever reason, his gun blows up and he gets injured. Now you're in court defending yourself. Right or wrong, it's a big problem and expense for you.

Several times I've had shooters and relatives ask if I would reload for them. I've always said no, as I didn't want the potential problems that could result if an accident happened.

Edited September 8, 2012 by tnhawk

[chances R]

nope, wouldn't sell reloads just because of Murphy's Law. But I might sell them a gun and throw in the ammo. Selling price is negotiable.