So I chose my scope for my AR in 300 Blackout

[Dolomite_supafly]

I spent the last few days searching and about to go made when I found this little gem.

http://www.nikonhunting.com/products/riflescopes/p-22/2-7x32_BDC_150_BDC_150/8499

The Nikon P-22 in 2-7. Because I plan on shooting mostly subs the reticle and the turrets are going to match up pretty close out to 175 yards. It has 80 MOA of internal elevation and when I cut that in half I should be able to dial it to right at 300 with subs, well over 650 with 110 grain VMax's and over 500 with 150 grain bullet. That is with a 50 yard zero. It has 1/2" adjustments at 100 yards which makes dialing in ditance a lot quicker as well.

Best part is they have a $30 rebate going on right now making the deal even sweeter. So I will have this at my door for a lot less than I expected it.

It was a toss up between it and this one:

http://www.nikonhunting.com/products/riflescopes/p-223/3x32_BDC_Carbine/8496

The reason why I almost chose this one is it has 150 MOA of internal adjustment. Meaning I could get to probably 500 yards on the deals but with a 3x that is out of the range.

I really wish they would offer either one with a Mildot reticle. It would make ait a much more useful scope. But as it stands it should work well and if not then I will toss it on a 22 and call it good.

Glad this part is over. Now I just need to shoot it but I need a barrel to do that.

Dolomite

[Lumber_Jack]

What made you chose the 2-7 P-22 over the 3-9 P-223?

http://www.nikonhunting.com/products/riflescopes/p-223/3-9x40_BDC_600/8497

[Dolomite_supafly]

Across the board the 300 blackout is closer to a 22lr than a 223. Ballistically a subsonic 300 blackout is going to be pretty close to a 22 than a 223. Even supersonics are going to be closer to a 22 than a 223. The highest velocity bullet I might shoot out of the blackout is ~2,300 fps and it drops like a rock compared to a 223. And the 300 isn't going to have the range of a 223 either so I don't need a really busy reticle.

I do plan on figuring out if there is a way to use the reticle to determine distance to certain targets.

And because I handload I can tweak he velocities and bullet weights to get something that "fits" pretty close.

Dolomite

[Dolomite_supafly]

One more thing, I couldn't beat the price. Right now with the rebate and a 5% off coupn I paid $131 for the scope to my door.

Dolomite

[Caster]

I LOVES me some NIkon. My two "Get Down to Business" rifles both sport Nikon. MOre affordable than Leupold and just as clear and well built.

[Lumber_Jack]

Across the board the 300 blackout is closer to a 22lr than a 223. Ballistically a subsonic 300 blackout is going to be pretty close to a 22 than a 223. Even supersonics are going to be closer to a 22 than a 223. The highest velocity bullet I might shoot out of the blackout is ~2,300 fps and it drops like a rock compared to a 223. And the 300 isn't going to have the range of a 223 either so I don't need a really busy reticle.

I do plan on figuring out if there is a way to use the reticle to determine distance to certain targets.

And because I handload I can tweak he velocities and bullet weights to get something that "fits" pretty close.

Dolomite

Your using a 16" barrel right? How much drop does the bullet have at the distances you mention in post #1?

[Dolomite_supafly]

The subsonic load using a 220 SMK at 1,050 fps with a 50 yard zero:

100=-7.6"

150=-23.7"

200=-48.4'

250=-82.1"

The data for a 40 grain 22 at 1,200 fps with a 50 yard zero:

100=-7.2

150=-23.5

200=-50.7

250=-90.0

Pretty close or at least close enough to the subsonic data that I can tweak the velocity of my handloads to work. Heck, being off by 2" at 200 yards is probably within my own error while shooting. They have a turret specifically for a 22lr in this velocity range so I am hoping I can tweak the handload to match the turrets.

Supersonic load using a 125 SMK at 2,200 fps with a 50 yard zero:

100=-1.5"

150=-5.2"

200=-11.5"

250=-20.7"

300=-33.1"

I am going to see if they have a MOA or MIL chart for the reticle at different magnifications. That will be more useful to me than their program to figure out holdover.

The only thing I wish they would do is embrace the MILDOT. It is the easiest reticle to use across the board. Had this scope had a mildot reticle I whould have paid twice what they were selling them for and not given it a second thought.

Dolomite

[piercedan]

Across the board the 300 blackout is closer to a 22lr than a 223. Ballistically a subsonic 300 blackout is going to be pretty close to a 22 than a 223. Even supersonics are going to be closer to a 22 than a 223. The highest velocity bullet I might shoot out of the blackout is ~2,300 fps and it drops like a rock compared to a 223. And the 300 isn't going to have the range of a 223 either so I don't need a really busy reticle.

I do plan on figuring out if there is a way to use the reticle to determine distance to certain targets.

And because I handload I can tweak he velocities and bullet weights to get something that "fits" pretty close.

Dolomite

Are to talking about the range as it pertains to subsonic? Does this hold true if you were just shooting a supersonic round? The reason I ask is that I've been getting told that the 300blk had the range of a 5.56 and maybe even better. I have no direct experience, but have been thinking of building one.

[Dolomite_supafly]

No way the 300 blackout can shoot farther than a 223, supersonic or subsonic. What it can do is put more energy on target than the 223 within its useable range. The 223 shoots flatter for sure but it also doesn't have the energy the 300 has beyond a certain distance.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

I put a Nikon 3-9 BDC on mine. I just had it lying around. Not sure where I'll go from there. I think you made a great choice for your rifle. As it stands now, I'll have 900 rounds of supersonic ammo, which is closer to 30/30 ballistics.

[atlas3025]

Yeah, Kevin Brittingham, formerly of AAC--who developed the Blackout--had a pretty convincing argument along those lines. Yes, you can hit a target much further out with a 5.56, but the energy is such that it isn't effective. He argues the Blackout is much more deadly at 300 yards than a 5.56 and beyond that neither is really good.

[piercedan]

Then the usable range is somewhere out to 300 - 400m?

[quietguy]

Have you looked at the Spot On software?

I am not sure on the rimfire version, but you can even order custom turrets based on your load.

[mikegideon]

Then the usable range is somewhere out to 300 - 400m?

That's a decent guess. The caliber allows you to use real good bullets. My favorite on paper is the 125gr Nosler Ballistic tip.

[mikegideon]

Have you looked at the Spot On software?

I am not sure on the rimfire version, but you can even order custom turrets based on your load.

If I have turrets, I'll just do a drop table in my software (Ballistic Explorer). It's pretty hard to beat a Mil Dot and turrets for droopy trajectories. Pushing the range on the 300 BLK is like pushing the range on anything else.

[Dolomite_supafly]

There are no custom turrets for the P22 scope. I emailed them before I bought the scope. they are sending me some spares for free.

Dolomite

[Shorty]

Then the usable range is somewhere out to 300 - 400m?

From AAC: "Max effective range, using M4 military standards for hit probability, is 440 meters for a 9 inch barrel, and 460 meters for a 16 inch barrel."

[Dolomite_supafly]

There are some detractors for the caliber but they don't really affect me.

First is the weight of the loaded ammo is A LOT heavier than the 223. Especially the subsonic loads. I loaded about 100 subonics the other day and it surprized me when I picked te bag up. Round for round a subsonic BLK is probably heavier than a 7.62x51 round. That is of no concern to me because I am not going to be running around with a full combat load.

Second, I can't Walk into my local Walmart and buy ammo. I have asked a few times and the next time I go in there I am going to ask them to order some even though I reload. So far every story locally, except a small privately owned one, has looked at me as if I were an idiot when I ask if they carry "300 AAC Blackout". The local has the 115 grain ammo for $12.60 out the door and said he could order me subsonics if I wanted them.

All in all I really do like the caliber. More than 223? Probably about the same right now. I will never get rid of my 223 caliber guns but the BLK will compliment the 223. Nothing like reloading a 223 until it basically starts to fall apart then cutting the neck off and shooting it some more until the case falls apart. Then after than I will be using the cases to make 7.62x25 Tokarev brass. Hard to beat something that you can use so many times.

Dolomite

[Dolomite_supafly]

Ok, so I got the scope in. It is an amazing deal for the money but I will say one thing.

The folks at Nikon are a bunch of retards.

I open the scope and give it a once over. Then I notice the turrets are marked 1/4"/50 yards 22lr 1400-1640 fps. But here is the retard part. The turrets are standard 1/4" turrets. Trying to figure out how 22lr or 300 WM for that matter makes a difference on a turret that is marked as a 1/4" turret .

They did say that they may ship with the wrong turrets. I hope so because without the turrets the scope is useless to me. I can't use the scope reticle to range a target and I cannot use the turrets for hold overs. Well I guess I could if I tweak my loads to match the reticle but I can pretty much guarantee that isn't going to happen.

Dolomite

[Lumber_Jack]

So let me get this straight. You were expecting 1/2" @100, and got 1/4" @50?

There is so much here I don't understand.

[Dolomite_supafly]

No, I was expecting the ballistically matched turrets, not the standard 1/2" turrets. I honestly have no use for this scope now. For me to use the reticle I have to make sure the target is at some funky distance like 137 yards to match the reticle and that is too much work for me. I was going to use the reticle to range targets, nothing more, once I figure out the MOA or MIL between the circles. Then dial the distance on the marked turrets. Just trying to make like as easy as possible for me without the need for a ballistac card out to 150. I could just dieal the knowbs but I need a chart with me.

Then the other retard move is why mark standard 1/4"/50 turrets as if they match a 22lr. They are standard turrets, nothing more but Nikon is pulling a fast on by making the customer think that a 1/4" of movement at 50 yards is somehow different with a 22 versus any other caliber out there. 1/4" is 1/4" regardless of caliber.

They are standard 1/4"/50 turrets but they mark them as though 1/4" is a measurement specific to the 22lr.

I am on the phone with them. If they can supply the turrets I can use then I will keep the scope. If not then I will send it back and upgrade to something that doesn't start with "N". I have had 2 other Nikons in the last two years and both of them went back for other issues.

Dolomite

[Dolomite_supafly]

They are going to send the correc ballistic turrets. So I will be able to use it. I got an email before I bought the scope saying the turrets were incorrect.

Now I just need to figure out the MIL or MOA subtensions for the reticle.

Dolomite

[Guest nowheretobefound]

If you end up not liking that scope take a look at the Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x20mm MR/T. It is available with a 300 Blackout reticle and it's FFP. Leupold sent me one by mistake to put on my duty HK416, It's gotta be a bit more money but a nicely thought out scope.

Found it and yea it would be a bit more money than the Nikon;

http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scopes/mark-4-mrt-riflescopes/mark-4-mrt-1-5-5x20mm-30mm-m2/

Edited October 2, 2012 by nowheretobefound

[Lumber_Jack]

If you end up not liking that scope take a look at the Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x20mm MR/T. It is available with a 300 Blackout reticle and it's FFP. Leupold sent me one by mistake to put on my duty HK416, It's gotta be a bit more money but a nicely thought out scope.

Found it and yea it would be a bit more money than the Nikon;

http://www.leupold.c...5x20mm-30mm-m2/

it can be found a little bit cheaper than that, but still gonna be over $1000. Id love to have one, but not likely for that price , after all I'm just shooting, Im not going to war, at least I hope not.