Religion and Politics

[MacGyver]

I thought this might be of interest to some of you, as a lot of our threads lately on one topic have wound up invoking the other at some point in the discussion.

As you can see from the topics, this series isn't really meant to win anyone over to anyone else's way of thinking. It certainly won't tell you who to vote for, or to demonize you for who you plan to vote for. Rather, it is to see if we can bring the level of discourse up a level - at least within our little community.

It's frustrating to see a group of "Christians" in the media completely co-opt the conversation and then use their pulpit to speak with hate. This is simply an attempt to have a better conversation.

If you do plan on coming, be sure to shoot me a note. We're pretty small, but we've got several TGO'ers who will definitely want to put names and faces with any other TGO'ers who show up.

[runco]

I am not promoting which party to vote, but I know if you are a supportive of Planned Parenthood, you will vote democratatic, if you are supportive of ACLU you vote democratatic, if you vote for same sex unions, you vote democratatic. I can continue, but I think that is enough said. The republican party is not a saint either, but at least I can identify who I am not voting for. I can never vote for any public offical that is a confessed member of that D party, on a national, state or local platform. My church does not promote any party, but the teachings of my church makes it an easy choice for me. I vote with my convictions, not my wallet.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Runco

[leroy]

Sorry im so far away. Would love to hear the presentation(s).

leroy

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That will be an interesting discussion. Sounds like a wonderful idea. People actually using their minds and discussing

with civility.

[Guest Razz]

I am not promoting which party to vote, but I know if you are a supportive of Planned Parenthood, you will vote democratatic, if you are supportive of ACLU you vote democratatic, if you vote for same sex unions, you vote democratatic.

This, right here, is my biggest problem with the current state of U.S. politics.

This idea that you have to approach the subject with an "all or nothing" attitude and you're either for or against an issue. These issues are not black and white and yet that is exactly how we are trained to react.

It's no wonder Americans are at each other's throat over politics. It sickens me.

I'm really glad to see that someone is trying to elevate the discourse. I am not part of the church but would happily participate. Seems like a lot of good could come out of this.

[TrickyNicky]

You hit the nail on the head there Razz.

I'm all for civil union between same sex couples, don't think I ever have or ever will vote democrat.

Id be all for planned parenthood provided my tax dollars didn't pay for it and it was supported through charitable donations, once again proudly a registered Republican since I was old enough to vote.

ACLU, don't know enough about them to allow the issue to sway my vote one way or the next.

No one can know the way a man will feel about any given issue based solely on how he feels about another, unless that is he's got some kind of seventh sence which I doubt highly.

People talk on here all the time about what would make America a better country, some say it would be enough just to get rid of Obama, some say we all need to find God and put our faith in the church, others say a strong return to traditional family values is the key.

My two cents is learn to take issues one at a time independent of each other and stand by what you believe is right regardless of what your political party is saying.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

You hit the nail on the head there Razz.

"I'm all for civil union between same sex couples, don't think I ever have or ever will vote democrat."

That's fine. I don't care, but I'm not madly in love with the idea.

"Id be all for planned parenthood provided my tax dollars didn't pay for it and it was supported through charitable donations, once again proudly a registered Republican since I was old enough to vote."

Planned Parenthood wouldn't be around if it weren't for tax dollars. If they were still around, they would be greatly diminished, though.

"ACLU, don't know enough about them to allow the issue to sway my vote one way or the next."

The ACLU is the premiere organization for liberal ideology who occasionally, rarely get civil liberties right. Their track record for civil liberties is almost nonexistent.

"No one can know the way a man will feel about any given issue based solely on how he feels about another, unless that is he's got some kind of seventh sence which I doubt highly."

Sometimes you have to make decisions based on things other than your own pet desires. Things that a larger group of people consider necessary. That can be difficult when trying to coalesce a large enough group to get a certain politician elected.

"People talk on here all the time about what would make America a better country, some say it would be enough just to get rid of Obama, some say we all need to find God and put our faith in the church, others say a strong return to traditional family values is the key."

I'd say it needs to be a combination of all you mention.

My two cents is learn to take issues one at a time independent of each other and stand by what you believe is right regardless of what your political party is saying.

Sometimes that is impossible when trying to make a decision like a national election. It's been that way for almost as long as we have been having national elections, just that so many haven't paid attention, all these years.

Edited September 2, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[runco]

This is what is wrong with people, they have lost the morale apptitude or guts to stand up for what is right! If you do not stand up for what is right, who will. If you do not know what is right, maybe you should do some soul searching.

[TrickyNicky]

"Thats fine, I don't care..."

To each his own, I probably wont ever go through much trouble to see them have the right or privilege if you prefer, but I also wouldnt be part of stopping them.

"Planned parenthood probably wouldn't be around without tax dollars..."

So be it, see above. Seems a shame in some ways though, if you think there's alot of welfare babies now...

"Sometimes you have to make decisions based on things than your own let desires..."

Sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't. Still not sure what that has to do with people "knowing" how I'll vote based on how I feel about a separate issue?

"I'd say it needs to be a combination of all you mention"

Could very well be, I don't claim to be an expert.

"Sometimes that is impossible..."

Sometimes it is, other times it isn't. Nothing we can do about the times when it is except go with our gut/head/heart or some combination of. Let me pose a question, a highly unlikely question at that. If the Democratic party had a better, and I mean all around better candidate than the Republican party, would you feel bound to the Republican candidate just because he's running with your party? Now remember, for the sake of the question the Dem is conservative, pro gun, pro fiscal responcibilty, in essence a republican running under the wrong party while the other is the worst the Rep party has to offer.

I'd say that's a good reason to look at the issue separate from prior elections wouldn't you?

BTW, no offence intended shorting your answers. Got to get ready for bowling and had to save some time.

[TMF]

This is what is wrong with people, they have lost the morale apptitude or guts to stand up for what is right! If you do not stand up for what is right, who will. If you do not know what is right, maybe you should do some soul searching.

What is "right" is a subjective term.

[Oh Shoot]

.... if you are supportive of ACLU you vote democratatic....

The ACLU has taken on many cases on which you would agree, including gun rights. They've also taken on the Patriot Act in various ways, which I have agreed with in just about every instance.

It is a polarizing organization, depending on the current issue they're involved in; their federal lawsuits haven't seemed to care which party was in power at the time throughout the decades.

In short, I support maybe half their windmill tilts as they arise, and don't see them as any way "in league" with the Democratic Party. And of course, they don't get a dime of public money.

- OS

Edited September 3, 2012 by OhShoot

[runco]

Even a blind squrrel will find a nut regarding the ACLU and some of my rights they fought for. If my remarks stir the pot, then I guess I accomplished something. Meaning your convictions may be at play one way or another.

[MacGyver]

Here's video from last night's topic on Civility & Tone in Political Discourse if anyone is interested:

http://player.vimeo.com/video/48964178

[TripleDigitRide]

I am not promoting which party to vote, but I know if you are a supportive of Planned Parenthood, you will vote democratatic, if you are supportive of ACLU you vote democratatic, if you vote for same sex unions, you vote democratatic. I can continue, but I think that is enough said. The republican party is not a saint either, but at least I can identify who I am not voting for. I can never vote for any public offical that is a confessed member of that D party, on a national, state or local platform. My church does not promote any party, but the teachings of my church makes it an easy choice for me. I vote with my convictions, not my wallet.

I am in support of Planned Parenthood, ACLU, and I'm in favor of gay marriage/civil unions. I will not be voting for a Democrat in the upcoming presidential election.

[RichardR]

Everyone should ask themselves 3 simple questions prior to casting their ballot.

1.) Is there such a thing as "good" &/or "evil"?

2.) Is X,Y or Z canidate's policy or position "good" or is it "evil"?

3.) Would you rather have a "good man" or an "evil man" ruling over you & your family?

Tada! You are now prepared to choose whom shall sit in the Oval Office at the start of the upcoming zombie apocalypse.

Edited September 6, 2012 by RichardR

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Your premise is flawed. Good and evil doesn't matter in your case. We don't need anyone "ruling over us",

unless that is just a poor choice of words. But, yes, there is good and evil.

I'll say any law that is on the books that doesn't pass constitutional muster may as well be "evil", along with

those people responsible, even if they claim to have meant good.

Any policy position that intends on altering the Constitution and adding further restrictions on our society I

will consider evil. Even if Romney plays that game.

[G27]

Here's video from last night's topic on Civility & Tone in Political Discourse if anyone is interested:

http://player.vimeo.com/video/48964178

Awesome - will all the sessions be available for viewing?

[RichardR]

It was a trick question, the canidates on ballots are almost aways a choice between the lesser of two "evils".

[MacGyver]

Awesome - will all the sessions be available for viewing?

Yes. There's been a lot of interest from all over. We're going to try our best to get them all up and online.

[TripleDigitRide]

Interesting watch. Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to the others.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It was a trick question, the canidates on ballots are almost aways a choice between the lesser of two "evils".

Yeh, it's popular to characterize it like that.

[Oh Shoot]

Here's video from last night's topic on Civility & Tone in Political Discourse if anyone is interested:

http://player.vimeo.com/video/48964178

just a note:

didn't work at all with my FF 15.0

works fine with IE, must be something MS-centric involved with Vimeo, didn't see anything obvious in FAQs?

- OS

Edited September 6, 2012 by OhShoot

[MacGyver]

just a note:

didn't work at all with my FF 15.0

works fine with IE, must be something MS-centric involved with Vimeo, didn't see anything obvious in FAQs?

- OS

Interesting. Thanks. I have no idea what's up, but would have expected Vimeo to be platform independent.

[Oh Shoot]

Interesting. Thanks. I have no idea what's up, but would have expected Vimeo to be platform independent.

Hmmm...check that.

FireFox 15.1 on WinXP box = nada

FireFox 15.1 on Win7 box = works fine

Something more to do with my one puter/OS than Vimeo it seems, sorry for alarm.

- OS

Edited September 7, 2012 by OhShoot

[MacGyver]

Hmmm...check that.

FireFox 15.1 on WinXP box = nada

FireFox 15.1 on Win7 box = works fine

Something more to do with my one puter/OS than Vimeo it seems, sorry for alarm.

- OS

Ahh. XP video codec issue. Thanks.