Lead Bullet reloads for my .30-30...A question

[Jamie Jackson]

I know I've come to the right folks. And I certainly know I need to start casting my own...it's on my "To Do" list.

I've read through a good bit of threads on using lead bullets for .30-30 reloads and understand that I can drive the bullets faster using gas checks.

But to get started in using lead reloads, and to just make some affordable practice rounds, I picked up a box of 250 Whitetail 165 gr. RNFP bullets from Missouri Bullet Company.

MBC lists the Brinell Hardness at 18 and states "optimized for .30-30 lever guns".

I was thinking about using Red Dot or perhaps Unique powders. It is my understanding that I should keep the velocity around or just under 1400 fps.

Any thoughts, suggestions, pet loads, cautions and past experiences would be greatly appreciated folks.

Thanks is advance TGO.

As an aside, the MBC website has some pretty decent info, and their FAQ's is a hoot to read.

http://www.missourib...m/technical.php

Edited August 29, 2012 by prag

[Jamie Jackson]

I forgot to mention. My .30-30 is a Marlin 336C I've had since around 1969. It's in excellent condition, tight and more accurate than I am.

[Caster]

Okay, wih the Ballard rifling you do have you do have to keep things a little slower. I think Unique will serve you well.

[Jamie Jackson]

Okay, wih the Ballard rifling you do have you do have to keep things a little slower. I think Unique will serve you well.

I was concerned about the rifling, and I was hoping for some insight from you Caster. Much obliged Good Sir.

[Garufa]

Okay, wih the Ballard rifling you do have you do have to keep things a little slower. I think Unique will serve you well.

You mean Micro-Groove rifling, right? It's with that rifling you need to be a little more careful about lead fouling.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Garufa

[Jamie Jackson]

Below is a link to some interesting (to me) info on Ballard and micro-groove rifling. The article mentions that the micro-groove bore prefers a lead bullet of at least .310 diameter. Mine are .309.

Obviously i should have done more research prior to ordering the bullets. Do you guys think i should obtain some gas checks and apply them first? or do you think my bullets would work for practice rounds as long as I keep the velocities low (1300 fps or so)?

TIA

link: http://www.leverguns...ove-barrels.htm

ETA for clarification: the above link is referenced a couple of times below...Thank you including it folks...it's the link to:

"Marlin's Microgroove Barrels by Glen E. Fryxell"

Edited September 3, 2012 by prag

[Jonnin]

I would just give them a try with a light load. The worst that can happen is you get to spend a day getting the lead out. I think you can also get into paper patching, if you want to go there.

[Jamie Jackson]

I would just give them a try with a light load. The worst that can happen is you get to spend a day getting the lead out. I think you can also get into paper patching, if you want to go there.

Good suggestion. Thanks!

[dlm37015]

i dont think the rifling makes that much diffrence iy never has for me

if your bullets have gas checks i would use reloader 7 if not i would use aa57344

it has to do with the tempture of the burninhg of the powder

[Jamie Jackson]

i dont think the rifling makes that much diffrence iy never has for me

if your bullets have gas checks i would use reloader 7 if not i would use aa57344

it has to do with the tempture of the burninhg of the powder

Thank you dlm.

The bullets I purchased don't have gaschecks.

From what I've read it's the escaping gases around the bullet that increases the leading potential, that and the bullet hardness, but to a lesser degree than escaping gases.... Hence my concerns about the bullet diameter and velocity/pressure.

To my understanding...and this is just from reading and not first hand experience...as long as I have a good seal, maybe by using gaschecks or paper patching and keeping the velocity at a reasonable level...around 1300 fps...I should be OK with these lead bullets in my Marlin.

Is this what you mean by the effects of temperature Sir?

I apologize for my ignorance...I'm comfortable with my handloads for my pistols, revolvers and jacketed rounds for my rifles and carbines.

This is my first venture into lead rifle bullets and I just want to mitigate the effects of my aforementioned ignorance. But experience will conquer ignorance...it'll just take me some time.

[Jonnin]

Between the pressure and temp of the hot gas from the gunpowder, you can produce enough heat to melt or soften the lead, which can cause it to get in the barrel some. Some powders burn at a higher temp than others. With any luck, your bullet base will expand into the barrel when slapped with the hot gas, sealing it and preventing gas blowby. If you make the load too light, it may not, so there may be a "sweet spot" where too light a load is and too hot a load both cause issues but in between it is good. Not sure about that, but it would seem that you want to hit hard enough to seal the round to the barrel without going overboard and ripping it thru the barrel at 3000+ fps.

1300 fps in a rifle is probably 1000 fps in a 5 or 6 inch pistol barrel. That is a handgun load! I have shot a lot of the MO bullets in handguns with zero lead problems, and I have not had to take any steps to counter lead problems. Their hard alloy seems to work as advertised, and I wonder if you are overthinking this & trying to solve a problem that you may not even have?

[Caster]

You mean Micro-Groove rifling, right? It's with that rifling you need to be a little more careful about lead fouling.

Micro groove is a fancy name Marlin uses for the same kind of rifling used on the old Ballard target rifles. Micro groove and Ballard rifling are one in the same.

[Caster]

The rifling is the limiting factor for I'm sorry to say. Ballard type rifling is EXCEPTIONALLY accurate but has trouble jiving with cast lead at higher pressures. It can be done, but theres gonna be some cussin and blood pressure spikes along the way. My best advice is stick with Unique and stay under 1,500 fps. If you want more go with a jacketed bullet or pick up a Win 94. I'm currently working with a 183g RNFP gas check and my next test batch should be around 2,200 fps. I see zero leading around 2K and groups at 50 yards run inside 2.5 inches with iron sights.

If you get into a standard rifled 30/30 and you want to run cast to the best of its ability there's only one powder. RX7. Period.

[Caster]

A word on Unique.

The pressurs are so low that it is fairly safe to do so etching that is usually a nono for hand loaders. Skip on up the scale toward a max load. Back off a grain or grain and a half. Reason: Unique is filthy at low pressures. When you get the pressur up to where accuracy usually hides, it will burn clean. Go ahead and try a few at a starting charge and see what I mean. Sooty cases.

[Garufa]

Micro groove and Ballard rifling are one in the same.

No, they are not.

[dlm37015]

micro groove is several shollow 12 i think in the case of marlin and cast bullets can not always strip the rifling ballard is a deep cut rifling usually 4 groove that is in most cases better suited for cast bullets.now with that said i have had very good results with both styles of rifling just have to use diffrent reloading styles

[Caster]

Wow, I'm totally cool with being wrong but theres a crowd of people saying otherwise on Castboolits.com. They are a bunch of self righteous pigs but they DO know their stuff.

Thanks Garufa. I need to rad a bit don't I?

[Jamie Jackson]

Between the pressure and temp of the hot gas from the gunpowder, you can produce enough heat to melt or soften the lead, which can cause it to get in the barrel some. Some powders burn at a higher temp than others. With any luck, your bullet base will expand into the barrel when slapped with the hot gas, sealing it and preventing gas blowby. If you make the load too light, it may not, so there may be a "sweet spot" where too light a load is and too hot a load both cause issues but in between it is good. Not sure about that, but it would seem that you want to hit hard enough to seal the round to the barrel without going overboard and ripping it thru the barrel at 3000+ fps.

1300 fps in a rifle is probably 1000 fps in a 5 or 6 inch pistol barrel. That is a handgun load! I have shot a lot of the MO bullets in handguns with zero lead problems, and I have not had to take any steps to counter lead problems. Their hard alloy seems to work as advertised, and I wonder if you are overthinking this & trying to solve a problem that you may not even have?

Who me? LOL Jonnin I think you most probably hit the nail on the head. No Doubt that I have been guilty of that quite a few times my friend.

Thanks for the excellent info and input from all.

I'll work up a variety of loads and even try my hand at paper patching and gas checks. I gotta learn sometime.

I appreciate the info and welcome further input or experiences.

[gregintenn]

Here's a pretty good read concerning this discussion.

http://www.leverguns...ove-barrels.htm

While I shoot a lot of lead bullets in revolvers, I generally shoot jacked bullets in my centerfire rifles and pistols. I am not saying there's anything wrong with cast bullets, it just seems that jacketed bullet reloading is a lot more straightforward.

Edited August 30, 2012 by gregintenn

[dlm37015]

i shoot almost all cast rifle bullets sometime paper patched from 22 hornet to 577

[Clod Stomper]

I have shot cast loads through my Marlin with micro-groove rifling. I don't have my info with me right now, but it's a flat-nose, gas-checked Lyman bullet 170-175 grains. Used wheel-weights and water-dropped. Don't remember powder or charge. It's been years since I played around with it.

I had no leading problems with the micro-groove rifling, but I understand that many people have.

Now, my experiments with .264 cast bullets in my Grendel are a different story. But I'll save that for later and maybe solicit some advice from Caster.

Will

[jaysouth]

Some reading and research is in order.

Start here and become familiar with the terminology and expand outward.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Somewhere between 7 and 9 grains of unique will give you a very accurate 50 yard target load with your Marlin rifle. It will not lead or put ANY wear on your bore. Concentrate on your targets and save them for future reference. When you get very comfortable with this load, buy a can of 2400 and research a 1500 fps load, which are deer killers out to 100 yards.

Another good bullet is the 165 flat nose made in our backyard by Magnus Bullets just across the line in AL.

www.castboolets.com is your friend, but you have to work at it.

[Curiousgb]

http://www.lasc.us/fryxellmarlin-microgroove.htm

[Jamie Jackson]

Thanks for all the great info folks. I most definitely agree that Marlin's Microgroove Barrels by Glen E. Fryxell is an excellent read which is why I linked it earlier.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ is a wealth of info as well, and I'm a member there. Good folks. But we have have a wealth of info here on TGO as well...And I like the "home town" feeling here.

Thanks again friends. Any and all suggestions are appreciated.