Should worshipers be allowed to arm themselves?

[zapfbroad]

http://blog.beliefnet.com/news/2012/08/should-worshipers-be-allowed-to-arm-themselves.php

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"The Family Research Council and the Liberty Institute cite 600 recent hostile attacks on people of faith. A black news service asks if worshipers need to arm themselves. And Wisconsin Sikhs mourn their dead.

Bring guns to church? Pastor Ken Pagano provoked a firestorm when he invited members of Louisville, Kentucky’s New Bethel Church to celebrate the 4th of July and their 2nd Amendment rights by bringing their firearms to church. The national news media opened fire at the very idea. After all, why should nice church folks need guns to defend themselves?

However, two years later as the nation recoiled from a series of shootings at the Family Research Council in Washington, D.C., a Colorado movie theater and a Wisconsin Sikh worship center, Black Christian News raised the question again: “Should Christians Be Allowed to Carry Guns to Church?†"

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good read..

[TMF]

Since many states have laws against having guns in places of worship I would say "yes" they should arm themselves. Generally these mass shootings take place is areas where guns are prohibited or uncommon. I don't think it is a great leap in logic to assume these murders plan their attacks around the probability of a potential victim being armed. But, once again, that is using logic and that has no place in a discussion about firearms.

[gnmwilliams]

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

[Jonnin]

It should be up to the congregation or religion/organization to decide what is allowed in their "church" (insert specific term as applies for "church"). The state should treat a "church" the same as any other business in most regards and leave it at that.

[piercedan]

I've been told specifically by my pastor that he wants members to carry. He understands the sheepdog role and supports it. I really wouldn't be surprised if he was packing heat on occasion.

[D3vo]

Places of worship are full of broken people. Sometimes the life those people are leaving find them at church. Sometimes that life doesn't want them to leave.

[TMF]

Places of worship are full of broken people. Sometimes the life those people are leaving find them at church. Sometimes that life doesn't want them to leave.

That is another very, very good point.

[dieewigeteufel]

I carried at church yesterday on accident. So used to it being there, I didn't take it out before I went in. No one noticed though and I doubt it would have mattered anyways. The world is a crazy place now and few places are safe.

[JayC]

It should be up to the congregation or religion/organization to decide what is allowed in their "church" (insert specific term as applies for "church"). The state should treat a "church" the same as any other business in most regards and leave it at that.

No, the state should leave church's alone... much more so than they leave businesses alone...

I'm surprised nobody has tried to raise a 1st Amendment case against these anti-carry church laws. I can't imagine the laws surviving any serious court challenge.

[Jonnin]

No, the state should leave church's alone... much more so than they leave businesses alone...

I'm surprised nobody has tried to raise a 1st Amendment case against these anti-carry church laws. I can't imagine the laws surviving any serious court challenge.

Leaving it alone, that is fine (agreed). Having it less than businesses is fine (agreed except this implies that businesses have an extra burdensome law that needs revoked). Having the the same as a business is OK by me too (but, this should be pretty minimal --- the business or church should both decide go or no-go on their property, and that is the extent of it -- the state's involvement is words to that effect and no more). Having an extra law for churches: not OK by me (GA for example). I think we were saying the same thing, but I spelt it out this time.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Jonnin

[E4 No More]

I carry in church all of the time. Before I joined the church I asked the pastor who stated that I'd be joining several others who already carry. I wouldn't have joined the church had he said no.

[monkeylizard]

I don't go to church w/o mine. I don't ask. I won't ask. I sit near 2 side exits.

A church I left about 2 years ago had a murder-suicide in the foyer back in the 1980s. My wife (a little girl at the time) and in-laws were there at the time. A guy shot his wife then himself. They'd been having marital problems of some kind. The shooter decided that if he couldn't have her, no one else would either. Nothing would have stopped him from taking a few people he may have blamed (pastor, church leaders, busy-body church gossips in the back row, etc.) had he been so inclined.

Besides that, there are plenty of crazies out there who think that a church/denomination is going to burn in hell becuase of <<insert wacko reason here>> and they're an agent of God's judegment. Or they're looking for a free handout and when turned away (for any of a variety of reasons) can turn violent. My former pastor was on a first name basis with some of the West Precinct MNPD officers because we saw these threats several times a year.

Edited August 27, 2012 by monkeylizard

[Steelharp]

Roughly 50% of the congregation at Cornerstone packs.

[daddyo]

My pastor approached me one day after the worship service and told me how grateful he was that people like me were sitting in the service protecting the flock. I had no idea that he knew, but the associate pastor has encouraged anyone with a permit and who's willing to carry into the services, so he must've told the pastor who was packing....

I don't have the heart to tell the pastor that I'm carrying to protect my wife and me and that, if someone ever enters with hostile intent, I'm getting her out if at all possible and I'm NOT going back inside.

[1pointofview]

So I am confused, is it illegal to vary in a church?

[Garufa]

So I am confused, is it illegal to vary in a church?

It is not illegal to carry in a church in TN. It might be against the rules to "vary" depending on the congregation.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Garufa

[1pointofview]

Shew, sorry but the last month or so I started carrying in church. Mainly because if I am not at work I have my protection on my person.

Long story short, almost thought it was a law I was not aware of. Thanks

[Caster]

Raise your weak hand in praise and worship to the God of your understanding; Keep your strong hand tucked close to your hip.

No god worth serving passes out freebies to strong capable people. It's my personal belief that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob favors those who ask not for a detailed list of everything they need, but instead ask for the strength, wisdom and ability to do it themselves. I'm lost on the idea of asking God for EVERYTHING. What good is a heaven full of people he has to support? No. Any god worth serving takes pride in a follower who is empowered by the wisdom of the spirit and can take care of simple tasks without getting on his nerves like a spoiled child.

Absolutely arm yourselves in your place of worship. There is a time for peace and a time for war. When a person decides to attack you and your loved ons in said place of worship.....it is time for war. The tunnel visioned bible belt Christians are deluded and hung up on passive attitudes. God understands war. God understands the difference in murdering another for personal gain or cold blood and causing a threat to your women and children to rapidly reach room temperature.

God is no coward, and he is not weak. Why would you want to be any different? Vengeance is his true, but it's on YOU to stand and deliver when the lives of your loved ones are in peril.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Caster

[jumprun13k]

Our church has emergency plans that include myself and the other people that carry in rather prominent roles. Which reminds me, might be about time for another drill.

[E4 No More]

It is not illegal to carry in a church in TN. It might be against the rules to "vary" depending on the congregation.

Unless there's a school on the property, correct?

[daddyo]

Raise your weak hand in praise and worship to the God of your understanding; Keep your strong hand tucked close to your hip.

No god worth serving passes out freebies to strong capable people. It's my personal belief that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob favors those who ask not for a detailed list of everything they need, but instead ask for the strength, wisdom and ability to do it themselves. I'm lost on the idea of asking God for EVERYTHING. What good is a heaven full of people he has to support? No. Any god worth serving takes pride in a follower who is empowered by the wisdom of the spirit and can take care of simple tasks without getting on his nerves like a spoiled child.

Absolutely arm yourselves in your place of worship. There is a time for peace and a time for war. When a person decides to attack you and your loved ons in said place of worship.....it is time for war. The tunnel visioned bible belt Christians are deluded and hung up on passive attitudes. God understands war. God understands the difference in murdering another for personal gain or cold blood and causing a threat to your women and children to rapidly reach room temperature.

God is no coward, and he is not weak. Why would you want to be any different? Vengeance is his true, but it's on YOU to stand and deliver when the lives of your loved ones are in peril.

Brother, that was well spoken.

[Cherokee Slim]

I carry all the time in church, and at all church activities. But nobody ever sees the gun. Many know I carry, it's just not an issue. The pastor has a HCP. In a 350-400 person group on any given Sunday, aside from a Hamilton Co Deputy, A Chattanooga LEO and a DUSM, I can count about 20 guns, carried by men and women alike.

Cherokee Slim

[1pointofview]

BTW, this weekend's reading was ephesians 6:10-20. The armour of God.

[Mark@Sea]

I am, by God, an American. Nobody gets to 'allow' me a right, at least not since I turned 18. Let's reverse the question - on what grounds does anyone feel they can stop me?

[piercedan]

I am, by God, an American. Nobody gets to 'allow' me a right, at least not since I turned 18. Let's reverse the question - on what grounds does anyone feel they can stop me?

It's funny how many people make it their job to do just that. It's also funny how many people who otherwise espouse this position lay down and let them do it.