Jews burning books? sorta ironic, isn't it?

[BimmerFreak]

Hero... it isn't very likely that you came up with your very own faith system. You have a belief, whatever it might be, and you are free to believe it and express it in any way you choose because of our terrific country. I would be willing to wager that you hold these beliefs because of someone else's influences on your life. We are all affected, in some way, in every aspect of our lives, by those before us.

If Rabbi had been born to my parents, he would have been raised Catholic, he would have been my younger brother, and I would have beat the crap out of him along the way, as older brothers do, and he would harbor a great deal of resentment, feel the need to take it out on someone, too, open a gun shop...

... wait...

I absolutely agree with you.

My belief system was formed by many people, leaders, and life experiences; Growing up in a Christian home and attending private Catholic school for 4 years was just part of it.

I have taken the formal ideas and teachings from my youth, added my personal experiences, along with the books and texts read during my walk, and used all of this to form my personal faith.

I think its very hard (and dangerous) to follow (blindly) the preaching, leadership, and rants of just one man or one organized religion.

ALL are flawed.

Why? because MAN is inherently flawed and evil.

We all struggle in our faith, and when the flock allows themselves to walk and follow blindly the teachings of man, they set themselves up to be led astray.

My suggestion is that each one of us should open our eyes, hearts, and minds to the many faiths out there. No one is 100% right. There is something to be taken from most if not all religions.

I dont believe that there is one religion that got it right, and all the others are wrong.

Do you realize how presumptuous and arrogant that is?

My god is the right one. Your god is wrong, so you must be going to hell.

Better yet, let me convince you into joining my faith by torturing you, blowing your family up, or chopping off your head.

Yeah, Im sure "god" would be all for that.

[Guest strelcevina]

If Rabbi had been born to my parents, he would have been raised Catholic, he would have been my younger brother,

If Rabbi had been born to my parents,he would have been raised as Orthodox & Catholic

BUT he would have been my MUCH MUCH older brother:D

just to add

first : Religion doesn't belong to the Gun forum.

second: Burning a bible doesn't offend me at all, because my Religion is based on my believes, not a peace of paper. anyway they are printed in China.

Third:it is rude to go to somebody's home and offend a person,

just like missionary's did.

it would be similar to the Germans going to Israel, preaching how 1000 year Reich is great idea:screwy:

[Guest Steelharp]

I dont believe that there is one religion that got it right, and all the others are wrong.

Do you realize how presumptuous and arrogant that is?

While I understand that perspective, it's not arrogance. Only one can be correct. Truth is absolute. Whichever you pick is your choice. Freedom to choose. Free will. For me, Christianity is my choice. The others are messed up. Period. But, I will not try to cut someone's head off for disagreeing with me, or otherwise force someone to believe as I do. I will present the option to them, and leave them be.

[Smith]

I absolutely agree with you.

My belief system was formed by many people, leaders, and life experiences; Growing up in a Christian home and attending private Catholic school for 4 years was just part of it.

I have taken the formal ideas and teachings from my youth, added my personal experiences, along with the books and texts read during my walk, and used all of this to form my personal faith.

I think its very hard (and dangerous) to follow (blindly) the preaching, leadership, and rants of just one man or one organized religion.

ALL are flawed.

Why? because MAN is inherently flawed and evil.

We all struggle in our faith, and when the flock allows themselves to walk and follow blindly the teachings of man, they set themselves up to be led astray.

My suggestion is that each one of us should open our eyes, hearts, and minds to the many faiths out there. No one is 100% right. There is something to be taken from most if not all religions.

I dont believe that there is one religion that got it right, and all the others are wrong.

Do you realize how presumptuous and arrogant that is?

My god is the right one. Your god is wrong, so you must be going to hell.

Better yet, let me convince you into joining my faith by torturing you, blowing your family up, or chopping off your head.

Yeah, Im sure "god" would be all for that.

how presumptious and arrogant to assume everyone is wrong except you in your open minded wisdom who has solved the mystery in 30 something years? how can this logic have any sense of stability? its like operating on personel perceptionn ignoring behind the lines intel.

[BimmerFreak]

While I understand that perspective, it's not arrogance. Only one can be correct. Truth is absolute. Whichever you pick is your choice. Freedom to choose. Free will. For me, Christianity is my choice. The others are messed up. Period. But, I will not try to cut someone's head off for disagreeing with me, or otherwise force someone to believe as I do. I will present the option to them, and leave them be.

See, thats what I have issues with.

So you have chosen Christianity as the one correct faith.

Which one? Which Christians are getting in?

Are the Nazarenes going to get in?

What about Catholics?

How about the Methodists?

Southern Baptists?

What about the other 200+ Christian Churches/Faiths out there?

Which one of those is right? None of them preach the exact same thing, so according to some, they are all but one, WRONG.

Which bible is the correct one?

St. Josephs Edition? Is that the right one?

Or is the King James Version the one we need to be following?

[BimmerFreak]

how presumptious and arrogant to assume everyone is wrong except you in your open minded wisdom who has solved the mystery in 30 something years? how can this logic have any sense of stability? its like operating on personel perceptionn ignoring behind the lines intel.

I haven't solved anything. I am presenting my personal beliefs and perspective on man's organization of religion.

We each have our faith which guide our daily walk.

Mine is pretty simple:

I believe in a loving god. One that is not so selective as to have just one chosen or correct people.

I try to live my life by the very simple Golden Rule.

It works for me, but I understand it doesnt work for everyone. And thats cool.

[The Rabbi]

While I understand that perspective, it's not arrogance. Only one can be correct. Truth is absolute. Whichever you pick is your choice. Freedom to choose. Free will. For me, Christianity is my choice. The others are messed up. Period. But, I will not try to cut someone's head off for disagreeing with me, or otherwise force someone to believe as I do. I will present the option to them, and leave them be.

There is one truth and many falsehoods. Just because we see lots of different expressions of faith does not make them all equal. I think it's presumptuous and arrogant to think that someone can make that kind of pronouncement with minimal education or knowledge of the subject.

[BimmerFreak]

...Rabbi said: lots of stuff...

Rabbi

There is no way I am going to hang with you in the Battle of Religious Minds.

You're the professional here. Im just the guy sitting the bench.

[The Rabbi]

I try to live my life by the very simple Golden Rule.

The one with the gold makes the rules?

[Guest CrazyLincoln]

Ok, I've got a solution. Let's fix this the liberal way! We'll all worship this one being called "Buddahshivajesusmuhammadetcetera" or BSJME for short. And once a year we'll have one big holiday called "Christmahanukwanzadan" where you celebrate whatever you want, as long as you don't practice it in public.......

Then we'll never fight and all live in peace, right?

[TripleDigitRide]

Uh oh. It's the great moral equivalence argument rearing its ugly head.

Let's start with the fact that it is illegal to engage in missionary activity in Israel. So the missionaries were doing something illegal.

Then the books belonged to the people to whom they were given. Does anyone have a problem with a person burning his own property?

Finally, Jews have been the object of the tender mercies of Christian mission for over 1500 years. The Crusades, The Inquisition, the pogroms all killed millions of Jews, who willingly gave their lives rather than follow a false god. To see missionaries today in Israel going down the same path, albeit in a kinder gentler way, is to invite this kind of reaction. If I had been there I would have been among the most enthusiastic throwing the stuff in the fire as missionary activity bugs the heck out of me.

Israel's "anti-missionary" law was conjuered up out of nothing more than fear. The fear that Christians may seduce Jews (mainly the younger) away from Judaism, which in their eyes, would result in genocide. The fact that a large percentage of Jewish men are now marrying non-Jewish women doesn't help their cause any. Because of this, the Jewish birthrate cannot keep up withthe rest. They fear the preservation of the Jewish race is on it's way to extinction.

Jews like to use the term the term "religious proselytizing". Using this term makes it sound like nothing more than a bunch of whacked-out religious fanatics in your face, on every steert corner, drilling you with the evil Christian evangelism. I'm guessing this isn't how the evil Christians do things in Israel, but I could be wrong.

What would this country (that was founded on, and is more or less run on Christian beliefs) be like if we came up with some BS law against anyone who preached anything other than Christianity? What if we were so intolerant? We could possibly be like those countries who choose to fight and kill each other for the last thousands of years.

Not only do we (USA) allow others to preach their beliefs, but we also allow non-christians in on the decision making processes of this great country. We, a Christian based country, allow much of our civil liberties to be dominated by the Jewish (and other) beliefs.

The ACLU is a perfect example. The ACLU's leaders/members have been made up of a large percentage of Jews. The former executive director of the ACLU, Ira Glasser, who was allowed to serve ad ED for nearly 25 years, was more than happy to oppose the proliferation of Christian symbols and traditions. It's no secret that the ACLU is profoundly anti-Christian. The ACLU is the main reason why prayer is not allowed in schools and other places funded by our tax dollars. And why do you think we are seeing lesss and less of the traditional nativity scenes during the Christian holiday, Christmas? It's mainly due to the intolerance of the Jewish community. But guess what, they are still allowed to prop up a menorah anywhere they see fit. And the old BS excuse that the menorah is not as specific a symbol as the cross doesn't fly with me. When 99% of us see a menorah, we link it directly to Judaism.

So the way I see it is, the Jews feel it perfectly acceptable to preach and take part in such disgusting acts of intolerance in Israel, why not force their beliefs on the rest of the world. All the while, sweeping the religious beliefs of Christians under the rug.

And just for the record, I'm not a member of any organized religion. I'm just voicing my worth.

Carry on!

[The Rabbi]

Wow.

You're forgetting how Jews and the Israel lobby hoodwinked this country into going to war against Iraq, or how Israel's Mossad invented al Qaeda.

[Guest Steelharp]

So you have chosen Christianity as the one correct faith.

Which one? Which Christians are getting in?

Are the Nazarenes going to get in?

What about Catholics?

How about the Methodists?

Southern Baptists?

What about the other 200+ Christian Churches/Faiths out there?

Joe, those are all Christian based faiths, with different "religion" names. In my belief, some of all will go, some of all will not. The semantics of the man made restrictions of each religion have nothing to do with it. Anyone who has as the center of their beliefs Jesus are in the race. Followers of Budda, Islam, etc. are not. (The Jews have a special place in God's heart, I believe. Where they fit into this, I will not hazard a guess. Rabbi knows.) It sounds extremist and uncomfortable, I know, but it's not my idea. In John 14:6, Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." Multiple choice was not given. In Luke 9:5, He said, "And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them." He did NOT say, "take off the very head from their shoulders for a testimony against them."

It is about choice; all men will be given the chance to choose before it's all over. The choice you make is your decision, freely. The results of that choice are yours alone.

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

If I promise not to ever follow any organized religion...can I just be dead after I die? No heaven, no hell, no 72 virgins, no reincarnation, no continuing spiritual journey?

[Mike.357]

Anyone who has as the center of their beliefs Jesus are in the race. Followers of Budda, Islam, etc. are not. (The Jews have a special place in God's heart, I believe. Where they fit into this, I will not hazard a guess. Rabbi knows.)

That sounds like playing both sides of the fence.

I suggest the Rabbi would say Christians ain't going anywhere.

If I promise not to ever follow any organized religion...can I just be dead after I die? No heaven, no hell, no 72 virgins, no reincarnation, no continuing spiritual journey?

ahhh the old dirt nap

[Guest Steelharp]

That sounds like playing both sides of the fence.

I suggest the Rabbi would say Christians ain't going anywhere.

No, it's an admission of ignorance to not knowing the Jewish stance. I suggest Rabbi should be allowed to formulate his own answers and join in as he sees fit. He's quite intelligent, and extremely articulate.

[TripleDigitRide]

No, it's an admission of ignorance to not knowing the Jewish stance. I suggest Rabbi should be allowed to formulate his own answers and join in as he sees fit. He's quite intelligent, and extremely articulate.

With the post count of 666...We know where you're going.

[Im Neero]

Well, the Torah is pretty down on the whole false gods thing, and most jews don't acknowledge the divinity of jesus, so it would seem to me that christians don't get into heaven.

Rabbi, what's the call on this one, do gentiles get into heaven or no?

[Guest Steelharp]

TDR... thanks for the rescue! Whew, I'm safe now... And yes, the promise of salvation was extended to the gentiles... if you accept the Christian definition...

[Im Neero]

I know it is with the christian definition, that'd be a pretty lousy religion if still only jews could go to heaven. I'm wondering what the jews say about it. I know there are messianic jews out there, is the Rabbi one of them?

[The Rabbi]

I know it is with the christian definition, that'd be a pretty lousy religion if still only jews could go to heaven. I'm wondering what the jews say about it. I know there are messianic jews out there, is the Rabbi one of them?

chas v'shalom.

I never understood the whole "only they are going to Heaven and those others are in for eternal damnation" bit. That sure isnt a Jewish idea. For anyone interested look up "7 Noachide laws" and that should give you some answers.

[Urse]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah

Basically follow the ten commandments(if your a gentile) and there is a place in the afterlife for you. Jews have 613 laws by which they are supposed to live whereas we gentiles being imperfect(ie not Jewish) only have to follow seven. Christians and Muslims require you accept their belief or you burn. And let's be clear, the God/Allah of the Jews and the Muslim is considered the same "one" but the Christians worship the Holy Trinity which is not the same.

Edited May 28, 2008 by Urse
Edit information....Thanks Rabbi

[Mike.357]

o, it's an admission of ignorance to not knowing the Jewish stance. I suggest Rabbi should be allowed to formulate his own answers and join in as he sees fit. He's quite intelligent, and extremely articulate.

my bad, i did not mean to speak for the rabbi, but i have had a lot of interaction with Jews. Now I do not know if the ones I interacted with knew squat but a couple said I was not going to heaven due to being Christian. I recant my post to let the man speak for himself.

I just read Bill's post and it appears Christians get in. I stand very much corrected.

Glad Steelharp got past that 666 thing too!

[Guest Steelharp]

I don't believe Allah is the same dude. Not being a theologian, I'm not sure... but I believe it's different.

[Mike.357]

Rabbi, Not to be a smart ass but could you explain this one a little?

5. Do not eat a limb removed from a live animal.

Does that mean the animal was alive when the limb was removed? Kind of like eating lobster, or eating an animal period?