Jews burning books? sorta ironic, isn't it?

[BimmerFreak]

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/20/africa/ME-GEN-Israel-New-Testament-Burned.php

: Orthodox Jews set fire to hundreds of copies of the New Testament in the latest act of violence against Christian missionaries in the Holy Land.

Or Yehuda Deputy Mayor Uzi Aharon said missionaries recently entered a neighborhood in the predominantly religious town of 34,000 in central Israel, distributing hundreds of New Testaments and missionary material.

After receiving complaints, Aharon said, he got into a loudspeaker car last Thursday and drove through the neighborhood, urging people to turn over the material to Jewish religious students who went door to door to collect it.

The books were dumped into a pile and set afire in a lot near a synagogue, he said.

The Israeli Maariv daily reported Tuesday that hundreds of Jewish religious school students took part in the book-burning. But Aharon told The Associated Press that only a few students were present, and that he was not there when the books were torched. Not all of the New Testaments that were collected were burned, but hundreds were, he said.

He said he regretted the burning of the books, but called it a "commandment" to burn materials that urge Jews to convert.

"I certainly don't denounce the burning of the booklets," he said. "I denounce those who distributed the booklets."

Jews worship from the Old Testament, including the Five Books of Moses and the writings of the ancient prophets. Christians revere the Old Testament as well as the New Testament, which contains the ministry of Jesus.

Calev Myers, an attorney who represents Messianic Jews, or Jews who accept Jesus as their savior, demanded in an interview with Army Radio that all those involved be put on trial. He estimated there were 10,000 Messianic Jews, who are also known as Jews for Jesus, in Israel.

Police had no immediate comment.

Israeli authorities and Orthodox Jews frown on missionary activity aimed at Jews, though in most cases it is not illegal. Still, the concept of a Jew burning books is abhorrent to many in Israel because of the association with Nazis torching piles of Jewish books during the Holocaust of World War II.

Earlier this year, the teenage son of a prominent Christian missionary was seriously wounded when a package bomb delivered to the family's West Bank home went off in his hands.

Last year, arsonists burst into a Jerusalem church used by Messianic Jews and set the building on fire, raising suspicions that Jewish extremists were behind the attack. No one claimed responsibility, but the same church was burned down 25 years ago by ultra-Orthodox Jewish extremists.

[BimmerFreak]

Islamic extremists

Ultra Orthodox Jewish extremists

The far Christian Right

WTF guys?

Just like I cant support a "religion" which advocates and supports suicide bombers, how can one burn a house or book of faith in the name of their god?

[Im Neero]

You don't get it Joe, it's ok when the Jews/Christians/Muslims do it because theirs is the one true god, but when other people do it they're just being intolerant.

[BimmerFreak]

You don't get it Joe, it's ok when the Jews/Christians/Muslims do it because theirs is the one true god, but when other people do it they're just being intolerant.

very true.

I have said this 100 times: Faith and religion is a wonderful thing, until you let man throw his (or his church's) personal agenda on top of it.

[TripleDigitRide]

I'm sure the Rabbi with have a sound explanation. He's the only voice of reason around here.

[Im Neero]

[Guest Mugster]

I don't get it either. I think it boils down to the fact that people live a certain way, and want to tell everyone else how to live too. And the way they live doesn't seem to make much sense.

[Guest nraforlife]

Evil and hatred all in the name of God.

[Guest CrazyLincoln]

I do see the irony in this situation, but there is a huge difference here. The Nazi burned books they took from the Jews, as were these books were given as unsolicited gifts.

This is somewhat is a double edged sword. While there is absolutely nothing wrong with spreading and preaching your faith, however, some bad apples do take it too far.

I have been in situations where I have been harassed by people trying to convert me, by blocking my path or following me around insistently. I have even had people walk in front of my moving car to stop me to hand me a copy of the New Testament. So the burning isn't entirely uncalled for.

On the other hand, the New Testament is sacred to Christians and someone wishing to be respectful could have done something else with the materials.

However, I would hardly consider this "violence". Regardless, both parties were within their rights, just both were pushing boundaries.

Edited May 25, 2008 by CrazyLincoln

[BimmerFreak]

I guess my issue is that EVERY religion has killed, destroyed, burned, and committed very questionable acts in the name of their god. It frustrates and saddens me.

[Guest canynracer]

[Guest jackdog]

I guess my issue is that EVERY religion has killed, destroyed, burned, and committed very questionable acts in the name of their god. It frustrates and saddens me.

+1

[Guest killemducks]

Why does it frustrate and sadden you? Do you have a "dog in the race"?

Does this act justify you not "believing" or something??

....playing devils advocate here...

[BimmerFreak]

Why does it frustrate and sadden you? Do you have a "dog in the race"?

Does this act justify you not "believing" or something??

....playing devils advocate here...

I have spent 20 some years traveling to exotic lands to witness the aftermath of "The Race"

Watching people fight and die in the name of their god has a way of making one somewhat jaded.

I believe what I believe, and my faith is my faith. None of it is based on what a man in a suit, yamica, turban, or kameez tells me to believe in.

[TripleDigitRide]

I believe what I believe, and my faith is my faith. None of it is based on what a man in a suit, yamica, turban, or kameez tells me to believe in.

+1

Very well said!

[Guest killemducks]

Hard to argue with that Hero. And I will not argue. Thank you for your service to our fellow man.

Bill

[The Rabbi]

Uh oh. It's the great moral equivalence argument rearing its ugly head.

Let's start with the fact that it is illegal to engage in missionary activity in Israel. So the missionaries were doing something illegal.

Then the books belonged to the people to whom they were given. Does anyone have a problem with a person burning his own property?

Finally, Jews have been the object of the tender mercies of Christian mission for over 1500 years. The Crusades, The Inquisition, the pogroms all killed millions of Jews, who willingly gave their lives rather than follow a false god. To see missionaries today in Israel going down the same path, albeit in a kinder gentler way, is to invite this kind of reaction. If I had been there I would have been among the most enthusiastic throwing the stuff in the fire as missionary activity bugs the heck out of me.

[The Rabbi]

I believe what I believe, and my faith is my faith. None of it is based on what a man in a suit, yamica, turban, or kameez tells me to believe in.

[BryanP]

On the one hand I deplore burning books. On the other, they're burning their own property. The story doesn't mention them confiscating them, so the presumption is they acquired them legitimately for the purpose of burning them.

Oh, wait. They're releasing more carbon into the atmosphere. Damn them and their global warming!

[BimmerFreak]

Uh oh. It's the great moral equivalence argument rearing its ugly head.

Let's start with the fact that it is illegal to engage in missionary activity in Israel. So the missionaries were doing something illegal.

Then the books belonged to the people to whom they were given. Does anyone have a problem with a person burning his own property?

Finally, Jews have been the object of the tender mercies of Christian mission for over 1500 years. The Crusades, The Inquisition, the pogroms all killed millions of Jews, who willingly gave their lives rather than follow a false god. To see missionaries today in Israel going down the same path, albeit in a kinder gentler way, is to invite this kind of reaction. If I had been there I would have been among the most enthusiastic throwing the stuff in the fire as missionary activity bugs the heck out of me.

I figured you would weigh in with your .10 worth.

I didnt post this as an attack, or to make a specific dig at a particular faith.

There is no denying the fact that Gods "Chosen People" have been kicked in the nut for the past 1500 (isnt more like 2000?) years.

I guess what I cant stand is intolerance by any faith in the name of their god.

Christians burning the Kuran = Not cool.

Jews burning the New Testament = Not cool.

Really? So the only way to be enlightened is to follow the words and rantings of man?

I guess we cant be left to discover and grow in our faith on our own.

We need someone to lead us. Perhaps I should hitch my spiritual wagon to one of these guys.

ZENTATSU RICHARD BAKER (Buddhist)

JIM BAKKER (Christian)

YOGI AMRIT DESAI, a.k.a. GURUDEV (Hindu)

SHEIKH MUHAMMAD AL-GAMEI'A (Muslim)

JOHN GEOGHAN and PAUL R. SHANLEY (Catholic)

BARUCH LANNER (Jewish)

CARDINAL BERNARD LAW (Catholic)

RABBI FRED NEULANDER (Jewish)

SHEIKH OMAR ABDEL-RAHMAN (Muslim)

JIMMY SWAGGART (Christian)

ROBERT TILTON (Christian)

HARE KRISHNA CHILD ABUSERS (Hindu)

[Guest Medic908]

I believe what I believe, and my faith is my faith. None of it is based on what a man in a suit, yamica, turban, or kameez tells me to believe in.

Werd.

[Guest Steelharp]

Hero... it isn't very likely that you came up with your very own faith system. You have a belief, whatever it might be, and you are free to believe it and express it in any way you choose because of our terrific country. I would be willing to wager that you hold these beliefs because of someone else's influences on your life. We are all affected, in some way, in every aspect of our lives, by those before us.

If Rabbi had been born to my parents, he would have been raised Catholic, he would have been my younger brother, and I would have beat the crap out of him along the way, as older brothers do, and he would harbor a great deal of resentment, feel the need to take it out on someone, too, open a gun shop...

... wait...

Edited May 26, 2008 by Steelharp

[creeky]

As far as the blind leading the blind...

When I stand before God, I am accountable for my actions as well as my in actions.

I do not want to stand before my creator and say... "So and so told me to do this, or so and so said it was all right to do this." I (personally) don't think I that will cut it.

I don't want to have to give an account for why I followed the advice of another and never bothered to open the scriptures to "study to show myself approved".

I am uncomfortable in discussing topics like this on forums. (Again, that's just me feel free to discuss away.) Just thought I should be fair and let you how I "see" things, that I am religious and why I don't post on such matters.

I enjoy reading them though... as long as they remain both civil and respectful to all.

[The Rabbi]

I figured you would weigh in with your .10 worth.

I didnt post this as an attack, or to make a specific dig at a particular faith.

There is no denying the fact that Gods "Chosen People" have been kicked in the nut for the past 1500 (isnt more like 2000?) years.

I guess what I cant stand is intolerance by any faith in the name of their god.

Christians burning the Kuran = Not cool.

Jews burning the New Testament = Not cool.

Actually I dont know why you posted this. I presume you were trying to bait me as I dont see what other purpose it would serve on a board like this.

But as Reagan said, there you go again, making moral equivalence arguments. Christians burning the Quran in any context you could bring up has nothing to do with this incident. They are different as night and day.

What you obviously can't stand is the idea of principles that people are willing to follow, even where they are not especially popular or might even--perish the thought--offend someone.

Really? So the only way to be enlightened is to follow the words and rantings of man?

I guess we cant be left to discover and grow in our faith on our own.

We need someone to lead us. Perhaps I should hitch my spiritual wagon to one of these guys.

ZENTATSU RICHARD BAKER (Buddhist)

JIM BAKKER (Christian)

YOGI AMRIT DESAI, a.k.a. GURUDEV (Hindu)

SHEIKH MUHAMMAD AL-GAMEI'A (Muslim)

JOHN GEOGHAN and PAUL R. SHANLEY (Catholic)

BARUCH LANNER (Jewish)

CARDINAL BERNARD LAW (Catholic)

RABBI FRED NEULANDER (Jewish)

SHEIKH OMAR ABDEL-RAHMAN (Muslim)

JIMMY SWAGGART (Christian)

ROBERT TILTON (Christian)

HARE KRISHNA CHILD ABUSERS (Hindu)

If you think you are the spiritual and intellectual equivalent of:

Thomas Aquinas (Christian)

John Henry Newman (Christian)

Thomas Merton (Christian)

Moshe ben Maimon (Maimonides) (Jewish)

Yitzchak Luria (Jewish)

R' Moshe Teitelbaum (Jewish)

Averroes (Muslim)

Fakkhraddin al Razi (Muslim)

Abdur Rahman Badawi (Muslim)

then go right ahead and develop your own ideas. But somehow your posts haven't demonstrated their equivalence.

[Marswolf]

You have little idea how much I enjoy religion arguments. I'm so glad we have a policy here at TGO that allows them....