Another Open-Carry Advocate Making Gun Owners Look Like Loons.

[East_TN_Patriot]

http://www.policeone.com/Patrol-Video/articles/5930343-Video-Cops-expert-open-carry-response-goes-viral/

This "one man activist group" needs to do a wee bit more research on his case law as well. A Terry stop allows an officer to conduct a pat-down for weapons if he/she has reason to believe the person being detained is carrying a weapon. I think it's pretty safe to say that a person walking down the street with an MP5 clone strapped around your body constitutes reasonable suspicion a person is armed.

[Curiousgb]

With ass's like that the anti's have all the ammo they will every need.

[RobertNashville]

I really don't (and actually, I don't think I want to) understand the mindset of militant open carry advocates. I suppose for some, the only thrill they have in life is to provoke law enforcement, hope for an encounter they can get on video and then post it so they can be "famous".

Their actions see to have little to do with carrying a weapon for protection; but rather, they carry to make a political statement.

[G27]

That cop is awesome. Handled it perfectly.

[midtennchip]

That is a great video to show how a cop is supposed to do it. The idiots behind the camera simply are asking for a problem. Luckily, the cop didn't "bite" on it. The cop had the right to stop him and the stop was limited to only what he needed to do to investigate the suspicion and ended immediately upon determining that his suspicion was unfounded. Even after the cop explained what he was doing, the guy keeps pushing it. Why anyone thinks that is helpful to the 2A push or in any way proves anything (other than the guy's an idiot) to anyone is beyond me.

[TripleDigitRide]

The cop handles stupid much better than I could have. With any luck, the two morons filming the video will simultaneously accidentally shoot each other in the head.

"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." ~ Albert Einstein

[Jonnin]

like it or not, an "AR" pistol is a pistol and is legal on HCP. You have as much right to carry that without being hassled as you do a 6 shooter. The LEOs have every right to ask to see your permit and ask a question or two, but it should be the exact same as OC of something else. This is not canada where we ban firearms due to the way they look. Anyone who chooses to exercise their right is going to be hassled, though, because of the way the gun looks --- that is not right.

[monkeylizard]

Right or not, it's the way the law works. The officer has reasonable suspicion that the MP5 clone (or an AR pistol in your example) could be an automatic weapon. If so, he/she can require the carrier to present ID and the ATF stamp. It wouldn't be reasonable to suspect the same of a Ruger Vaquero.

In TN, an officer doesn't need reasonable suspicion of it being automatic, just reasonable suspicion that a person is armed. It's against TN law to carry. The HCP is just a defense to that law.

[Jonnin]

There is no ATF stamp on the ones that were sold as pistols. SBR is not legal on the HCP, only handguns. So it comes down to checking the permit and that is an end to it, whether its a AR pistol or a single six. If someone has an actual SBR or AR or even a double barreled shotgun, that is totally different: a few more questions need to be asked as those are not allowed on HCP and if loaded, there is a problem. If not loaded and in town or something, still worth asking what the intent is.

As I said, I am ok with the officer asking appropriate questions --- for any pistol of any type, that is to see the HCP, then a nod, a smile, and that is the end of it. For anything not a pistol, a few more questions and possibly checking for it being loaded etc may be in order. I expect the LEO to know which are pistols and which are SBR as part of his job.

This LEO, by the way, did very well given that there was an intent by these guys to get a rise out of him. I have no issue with anything he did. My issue is with people saying that you should not carry X weapon because of how it looks. OC in general stirs up the sheep and anti-gun folks. The type of gun is unimportant; from here there are 2 topics (is it ok to OC and stir people up or not) vs (is it ok to carry a large handgun, or should we make a new law to ban anything that won't fit in an IDPA box?).

[daddyo]

It's against TN law to carry. The HCP is just a defense to that law.

I'm not sure I understand this statement.

[TMF]

There is no ATF stamp on the ones that were sold as pistols. SBR is not legal on the HCP, only handguns. So it comes down to checking the permit and that is an end to it, whether its a AR pistol or a single six. If someone has an actual SBR or AR or even a double barreled shotgun, that is totally different: a few more questions need to be asked as those are not allowed on HCP and if loaded, there is a problem. If not loaded and in town or something, still worth asking what the intent is.

As I said, I am ok with the officer asking appropriate questions --- for any pistol of any type, that is to see the HCP, then a nod, a smile, and that is the end of it. For anything not a pistol, a few more questions and possibly checking for it being loaded etc may be in order. I expect the LEO to know which are pistols and which are SBR as part of his job.

This LEO, by the way, did very well given that there was an intent by these guys to get a rise out of him. I have no issue with anything he did. My issue is with people saying that you should not carry X weapon because of how it looks. OC in general stirs up the sheep and anti-gun folks. The type of gun is unimportant; from here there are 2 topics (is it ok to OC and stir people up or not) vs (is it ok to carry a large handgun, or should we make a new law to ban anything that won't fit in an IDPA box?).

As far as I know it isn't illegal to carry around a pitchfork, but it is out of the ordinary. I don't think it would be crazy for a LEO to stop a person walking down the street with a pitchfork and say, "hey, whatcha doin'?" Same goes for carrying a pistol that doesn't appear to be an ordinary EDC pistol. Carrying an MP5 clone or a Draco attracts attention because it is abnormal which begs the question "what is this guy up to?" I'm not a cop, but if I saw someone walking around with it I would have my hackles up because I wouldn't be able to think of a reasonable explanation for it. Same as a dude walking down the street with a pitchfork.

Edited August 24, 2012 by TMF

[G27]

I'm not sure I understand this statement.

I think the way the law is written he's correct - we're essentially breaking the law when we carry with HCPs, but the HCP prevents us from being charged.

I could be totally wrong but iirc one of the legal brainiacs here explained it before, posting the actual laws, and it made sense.

[JReedEsq]

This officer did a simply outstanding job of resolving the situation without issue. I don't see the point of what the Kwik type guys are doing. It's fine by me if you want to open carry but just realize that, like it or not, it is outside the ordinary. If these guys really want to help a political cause they should be politely helping little old ladies cross the street or providing some sort of community service. Instead of showing people that there are nice, friendly, law-abiding people who might happen to own guns, these guys think they are somehow helping the cause by trying to provoke an improper reaction from law enforcement. This officer looks like a smart, well-trained guy who's just not buying it.

Edited August 24, 2012 by JReedEsq

[maroonandwhite]

Wow. Doesn't get handled any better than that! +1 to the officer for not taking the bait. -1 for the guy doing the video. Clearly bating IMO.

Not to derail but I just want to add I had a nice encounter (not so much) with the local law last night. I have been experimenting with open carry and the wife and I went to the local small town diner. She was really nervous about me OC'ing due to the reactions she thought we might get. When we pulled in I saw the police car and didn't really know what to expect. As we walked in police officer noticed my weapon right off the bat, kind of "analyzed" me, and said "Hi, how ya doing?" and that was it.

Just really wanted to give a thumbs up for officers out there who are good at what they do.

[monkeylizard]

I think the way the law is written he's correct - we're essentially breaking the law when we carry with HCPs, but the HCP prevents us from being charged.

That's correct.

Actually, I think that by the letter of the law, we could be charged, but those charges would be dismissed by a judge because the HCP is our defense against the charge. No cop/prosecutor is going to waste their time doing that, but I think that techincally, it could happen.

Edited August 24, 2012 by monkeylizard

[BigK]

Great job by this LEO!! Despite the kid trying to stir things up he kept it brief and professional.

I hate to see cops roll up w/ guns in hand screaming and man-handling people almost as much as I hate to see YouTube hot shots trying to escalate calm situations with adversarial attitudes.

[Jonnin]

As far as I know it isn't illegal to carry around a pitchfork, but it is out of the ordinary. I don't think it would be crazy for a LEO to stop a person walking down the street with a pitchfork and say, "hey, whatcha doin'?" Same goes for carrying a pistol that doesn't appear to be an ordinary EDC pistol. Carrying an MP5 clone or a Draco attracts attention because it is abnormal which begs the question "what is this guy up to?" I'm not a cop, but if I saw someone walking around with it I would have my hackles up because I wouldn't be able to think of a reasonable explanation for it. Same as a dude walking down the street with a pitchfork.

Absolutely. The LEO that walked by a guy with such things without taking a min is not doing his job, and if a LEO ever sees my AR pistol, I expect him to ask about it (I do not OC It but I do have it in the car sometimes, if I am required to go to go downtown for example). As for seeing someone with it strapped on their back....?? I am 10 times more concerned about the guy with something that I cannot see, but like you, I will be watching.

[Guest Aces&8s]

I don't see the point of what the Kwik type guys are doing... If these guys really want to help a political cause they should be politely helping little old ladies cross the street or providing some sort of community service. Instead of showing people that there are nice, friendly, law-abiding people who might happen to own guns, these guys think they are somehow helping the cause by trying to provoke an improper reaction from law enforcement.

I agree completely. I have never understood the mentality of some activist-types (whether they be gay rights, gun rights, animal rights, whatever) who feel the need to be so over-the-top, in your face, aggressive in their actions. If you believe in a cause, by all means advocate for it, but doing so in a civil, respectful manner will go so much farther in advancing said cause than will sticking it in someone's face and screaming "it's my right!" Those who disagree with you will not change their minds, but you might just push those who are undecided into the other camp. I am just thankful that we do have a lot of OCers who do so conscientiously.

[Oh Shoot]

...It's against TN law to carry. The HCP is just a defense to that law.

I'm not sure I understand this statement.

What is unclear?

"39-17-1307. Unlawful carrying or possession of a weapon

(a) (1) A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm, a knife with a blade length exceeding four inches (4''), or a club."

- OS

[Guest 270win]

I would gladly have the law changed in TN to require concealment in public (not for hunters, fishermen, shooting at range) IF I could carry in schools, all parks, and past any sign. It would greatly cut down on this silliness of people carrying a gun to prove something.

[Chadastrophic]

Bravo to the LEO.

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[dats82]

What a couple of assclowns! The LEO did a splendid job of dealing with these idiots. I, on the other hand, would like to kick them in the nuts. Not for open carry of a ridiculous pistol but rather for obviously trying to make the LEO's job more difficult than it already is. I wish all LEOs could do such a stellar job.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

I hate people like the guy making this video. Just going around messing with cops for the hell of it just to post it on YouTube. What a dumbass.

[klamb5]

What a great LEO if only all were like him , cool head , didnt take the baiting,then trys to get them in a ed. class. Dude got a good head on him, I'm just glad we have some like him in our area.But you can't blame them for being on the side of caution they all want to go home at the end of their shift just like us. Shame of it is I wouldn't mind doing the job but I couldn't afford the pay cut ( plus I'm to old and fat now )

Edited August 25, 2012 by klamb5

[greenego]

I will never understand why someone wants to push the envelope when it comes to carrying a firearm. As had been said before the police officer was great. I wouldn't be surprised if the video ended up being used for training as to how to handle this type of situation.