Your Opinion?

[Dennis1209]

Let me start off by saying that, when I returned home to Missouri in 1972 at twenty years old, after two years in the Army and one year as a helicopter door gunner on a gun ship, I was still considered and treated as a minor.

I was not allowed to vote, buy a 1972 Pontiac Firebird I had saved for with my military pay on my own, nor could I go with my dad to the local watering hole and have a cold beer with my father.

I can't tell you all the places I was allowed to consume alcohol on base, in foreign countries and surrounding military base communities.

I wasn't happy then, but now I'm a little livid at our laws and system of treating our military "children". Watching a TV program the other day where a twenty year old Iraqi war veteran got pulled over by the Sheriff's deputy. He and his Army buddy were headed home and had a cold twelve pack of beer in the car. They had not been drinking and were not cited for anything other than, possession of alcohol by a minor, and given a ticket for such.

I don't know about you but, that's a slap in the face and real discrimination against our troops.

I know it's "state law" on these issues but, does that make it right?

[Fourtyfive]

Thank you for your service ! As far as complaining , get in line. Really , not being mean but what's laws make sense these days.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Threeeighty

[DaveTN]

I went in the military during Vietnam at 17. I couldn’t legally drink. When I went home on leave I couldn’t get served unless I wore my uniform. When I wore my uniform not only would I get served, but I didn’t have to buy a drink.

Is it right? No, active duty military should be exempt. But most state legislators do not see it that way. So, you can’t make a blanket statement that the cops should ignore it. Most Officers have discretion on any misdemeanor, but it is possible that they don’t have on liquor violations involving minors.

I got a call on an “attempt to purchase liquor by a minor†at a local liquor store. It was a guy that had done two years in the Army and was 20 years old. The liquor store was one that insisted every attempt be arrested and prosecuted, so I cuffed him up and took him into custody. I drove a block away, got him out, took the cuffs off, put him in the front seat and gave him a ride home. I didn’t violate the law, but I violated our departmental policy on liquor and minors. If someone found out I would have been reprimanded; but I thought it was worth the risk.

Those who serve are a very special group; thank you.

Edited August 23, 2012 by DaveTN

[East_TN_Patriot]

I have no problem lowering the drinking age to 18. If you are old enough to vote, old enough to serve in the military, old enough to enter into a legally binding contract, and old enough to go to prison, then you are old enough to drink legally.

[quietguy]

Well, I don't think it is really a state law issue. It was the Feds that pretty much forced the states to raise the legal age, at least the last time.

Regardless, I agree that at least active duty should be an exception at a minimum, but think it should be 18 for everyone. That, or raise the minimal enlistment age to 21.

Edited August 24, 2012 by quietguy

[Guest FIST]

I believe it could work but would need restrictions. You wouldn't believe some of the stupid #### my soldiers would bring to me. One day it's I'm broke and getting divorced, the following week it's I want a new car, and the week after they're getting booked for filing a false police report.

Maybe if they were allowed to consume at an on post establishment it could work. Honestly, most of them find a way around the law anyway. Heck, most folks of legal age are idiots when they drink.

But I do agree they have earned something for what they've done and been through, what exactly that is I'm not sure.

[LagerHead]

I believe it could work but would need restrictions. You wouldn't believe some of the stupid #### my soldiers would bring to me. One day it's I'm broke and getting divorced, the following week it's I want a new car, and the week after they're getting booked for filing a false police report.

Maybe if they were allowed to consume at an on post establishment it could work. Honestly, most of them find a way around the law anyway. Heck, most folks of legal age are idiots when they drink.

But I do agree they have earned something for what they've done and been through, what exactly that is I'm not sure.

This actually does work. I attended a school at Ft. Huachuca, AZ when I was 19 and they allowed you to drink on base at 18. There were very, very few problems on base and under 21 didn't go down range and raise hell in town. It was a pretty good system. I was in Korea when I turned 21 so it wasn't a big deal when I got back home.

But I do think the drinking age should be lowered to 18 everywhere. If you're old enough to vote and take a bullet for your politicians you should be old enough to die having enjoyed a delicious malted beverage legally.

[gregintenn]

I thought active duty were exempt from the legal age garbage. When did that change?

[Chucktshoes]

Well Greg, I know it applied to me when I was in during the mid/late 90's.

[Mike.357]

In TN you must be 21 to purchase or consume alcohol legally.

I believe I have read that the human brain does not settle down and finish it growth type business until about 25 years of age. Until that happens people are effected more strongly by alcohol. Maybe I have it wrong.

There is no way I would vote to allow 18 year olds to drink. When I was 18 I was legally allowed to go to bars or purchase 3.2 beer. I know that made me do stupid stuff. Not liquor or 6% beer mind you by watery 3.2% beer.

I appreciate those who serve, but imho that does not make it right for them to drink. Young people make enoug stupid decisions when sober.

I am not so sure that being 21 is old enough

[Lumber_Jack]

In TN you must be 21 to purchase or consume alcohol legally.

I believe I have read that the human brain does not settle down and finish it growth type business until about 25 years of age. Until that happens people are effected more strongly by alcohol. Maybe I have it wrong.

There is no way I would vote to allow 18 year olds to drink. When I was 18 I was legally allowed to go to bars or purchase 3.2 beer. I know that made me do stupid stuff. Not liquor or 6% beer mind you by watery 3.2% beer.

I appreciate those who serve, but imho that does not make it right for them to drink. Young people make enoug stupid decisions when sober.

I am not so sure that being 21 is old enough

I didn't learn to drink responsibly till probably 24, and I started at 17. I see nothing productive in being able to drink a beer.

I know our young soldiers see and do some very tough things, but I don't think alcohol is any kind of reward.

[piercedan]

If you're old enough to serve and die for your country; if you are trusted to make life or death decisions, I think you can be trusted to have a beer.

[Lumber_Jack]

If you're old enough to serve and die for your country; if you are trusted to make life or death decisions, I think you can be trusted to have a beer.

My opinion is based on the fact that the first part is done under strict training and supervision. The latter is done with neither.

[Caster]

I know younger people have a hard time drinking responsibly but I'm sorry, if you can go to a foreign land and kill people. If you can operate multi million dollar pieces of equipment. If you are willing to fight, kill and die for my freedoms, then when you're not on duty, Bottoms Up brother!

[Guest ThePunisher]

The lower age experiment of 18 was once legal here in Tenn. around mid-70's for a few years years until it was proven that it was a bad experiment lowering to age 18. Too many drunken accidents happened and proven that 18 year olds were not mature enough to handle drinking, so they repealed the drinking age back to age 21.

[quietguy]

The lower age experiment of 18 was once legal here in Tenn. around mid-70's for a few years years until it was proven that it was a bad experiment lowering to age 18. Too many drunken accidents happened and proven that 18 year olds were not mature enough to handle drinking, so they repealed the drinking age back to age 21.

IIRC, the legal age in TN was lowered to 18 in 1971. In '79, they raised it to 19. It wasn't until 1984 that the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 pretty much forced states to comply. There were several states held out a few years, but all eventually complied.

[TrickyNicky]

With all due respect to anyone willing take the job and put on the uniform, I don't think I'd ever vote for anything to help create a second class of citizen. On base, I'd leave that up to the powers that be, but IMO young people should be neither enticed nor rewarded with alcohol in exchange for military service.

I've gone back and forth mentally over the drinking age and haven't arrived at anything solid. I don't think it's right to call someone an adult, give them adult responsiblitys, and expect adult behavior, punishable by adult punishments, only to consider them a minor.

On the other hand young adults(and old ones too) make dumb choices.

One thing I'm wondering is how the cop in question came about knowing there was beer in the car. Didn't read the article so not sure if it says, but unless the whole car was searched the young people should have had sence enough to either cover it with a towel or put it in the trunk.

[TMF]

19 year olds can legally drink in Canada. Somehow their country hasn't fallen apart for it. Allowing Servicemembers to drink before they're 21 is not about reward, it's about respect. Yeah, joes do stupid stuff, but they do it with or without the laws. Just think, when an 18 year old shows up to his platoon, you think that the older Soldiers wouldn't buy beer for him? Absolutely they do. The only thing that would change is they would be allowed to drink in bars. That's it.

Edited August 24, 2012 by TMF

[scoutfsu]

I've never understood how you can legally be considered an adult at 18 but not enjoy adult privileges. Sure, kids do stupid things. So do adults. What is the difference?

It is a kick in the face that Joe can fight and die for his country but he can't drink a beer in return. Its a crying shame that young adults are given a criminal record/UCMJ over a beer or bottle.

People do stupid things. Within reason, holding them accountable is how you deal with it. If you operate at the lowest level, you're going to get people acting at the lowest level. It's one of the sad facts of life. I just got back from a month long school. As a 31yr old SSG, neither I or my NCO peers could drink. Higher is so deathly afraid of shenanigans that they throw down a blanket, stupid order. Guess what? The people that are going to do stupid things are STILL going to do stupid things. All you're doing is punishing the responsible people for the possible actions of the few. Sort of like safety briefs. Do I really need to be told every week to not beat my wife, not drink and drive, etc? If someone is stupid enough to do something like that, they don't need to be in the military, period. Hold them accountable.

You want to call someone an adult, treat them like one. Otherwise change the legal definition of an adult to 21 and be done with it.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

The drinking age for everyone should be the same as the age of consent and the age of "adulthood". IMO if they want the drinking age at 21 or higher, then set that as the age of consent and the age of voting and the whole enchilada.

That was the reasoning when the drinking age was set to 18 back in the 1970's as was earlier explained. There is a pretty good wikipedia article explaining the history both nationally and state-by-state.

Also as explained earlier, the drinking age was raised because there was at least the perception that drunk 18 years olds and drunk 20 years olds were getting in too much trouble and needed to be protected from themselves.

Maybe that is so, but in that case IMO they shouldn't be able to marry, vote, or join the military til the age of 21 either. Just whatever is fair, is fair IMO.

[scoutfsu]

piercedan, on 23 August 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

If you're old enough to serve and die for your country; if you are trusted to make life or death decisions, I think you can be trusted to have a beer.

My opinion is based on the fact that the first part is done under strict training and supervision. The latter is done with neither.

Lumber Jack, no offense....but I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. Please, tell me more about this strict training and supervision in combat. I can fire a guy up with a crew serve or drop him in any other way you can think of......I'm trusted with that......just not with a beer. At least until I cross the magical 21 line. Then I'm good in all categories.

Edited August 24, 2012 by scoutfsu

[TMF]

The people that are going to do stupid things are STILL going to do stupid things. All you're doing is punishing the responsible people for the possible actions of the few. Sort of like safety briefs. Do I really need to be told every week to not beat my wife, not drink and drive, etc?

My favorite safety brief I've ever heard before a 4 day:

"If you're going to jump out of a plane, make sure you got a parachute. Wrap it before you tap it.

If you drive drunk, make sure to drive fast to minimize exposure.

If you drink and boat, make sure it's on a cruise ship.

If you beat your wife, be sure to remind her that you do it because you love her that way she doesn't call the cops.

If you get arrested you will doing combatives with me on Tuesday morning.

But seriously, don't do anything that your rank can't handle. I can promise you, if you do something dumb this weekend, the CoC will burn you to the ground. Have fun."

[Guest FIST]

My favorite safety brief I've ever heard before a 4 day:

"If you're going to jump out of a plane, make sure you got a parachute. Wrap it before you tap it.

If you drive drunk, make sure to drive fast to minimize exposure.

If you drink and boat, make sure it's on a cruise ship.

If you beat your wife, be sure to remind her that you do it because you love her that way she doesn't call the cops.

If you get arrested you will doing combatives with me on Tuesday morning.

But seriously, don't do anything that your rank can't handle. I can promise you, if you do something dumb this weekend, the CoC will burn you to the ground. Have fun."

Our old 1SG used to tell us not to climb a tree without a monkey.

Even though I understand why we do them, plus all the other crap like "TRiPS" it gets old after 12 years.

For those not familiar with the term "TRiPS" it stands for Travel Risk Planning System and is the Army's version of map quest with safety tips forced in, another way to cover its ass while a Soldier is on Leave/Pass. The sad part is, when I'm staying local for leave and have to do one. (Total trip time, 16 minutes, would you like to see ways to reduce your risk?). Sure automated Army program, shed some light on it for me

[Lumber_Jack]

Lumber Jack, no offense....but I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. Please, tell me more about this strict training and supervision in combat. I can fire a guy up with a crew serve or drop him in any other way you can think of......I'm trusted with that......just not with a beer. At least until I cross the magical 21 line. Then I'm good in all categories.

No need to be an a$$. It's just my opinion, kinda like the thread title.

You cant possibly think I meant soldiers are supervised al the time. In battle, when faced with hard decisions, what do our soldiers rely on? Training?

My point was we train them to be men physically and on the battlefield but that doesn't mean they are ready socially. Sure probably a higher number than average ARE ready. But the military is a small percentage of society. What about the other 18yo who have never had a lesson in discipline. You have to realize these laws go outside the focus group we are discussing here.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Lumber_Jack

[daddyo]

I have no problem lowering the drinking age to 18. If you are old enough to vote, old enough to serve in the military, old enough to enter into a legally binding contract, and old enough to go to prison, then you are old enough to drink legally.

Took the words right out of my mouth.