Man arrested for legally open carrying...

[Murgatroy]

So the cat walks into an Arby's up here in Louisville, KY and is asked by an officer to cover his gun. The cat says "No." Basically what I am getting is that he didn't have his CCDWP here in Kentucky, as open carry is legal, to cover it would be illegal without his permit.

So he didn't.

There was a brief confrontation and eventually the gentleman was restrained by a National Guardsman and the officer and arrested.

The news story doesn't update it, but it seems he was released as soon as he reached the police station.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/19319955/man-arrested-at-louisville-arbys-after-refusing-to-hide-firearm

[Curiousgb]

Again, common sense did not prevail. He may have been right but, be he failed the,when to hold when to fold test.

[piercedan]

Oh not this debate again. :0)

[Sam1]

While the officer was confronting Helms -- who refused to put the gun away -- police say the suspect's aunt and mother walked into the restaurant and stood between Helms and the officer, and began arguing with the officer.

I'd bet a pepsi the guy had the opportunity to leave and decided to stir the pot instead.

[RobertNashville]

The story says the restaurant doesn't allow unconcealed firearms in the restaurant...so I wonder; was this easily known and if so, why did this guy ignore it?

I don't know if such a policy has the force of law in KY but if that's their policy then the guy should have followed it and/or eaten somewhere else...at the very least is sounds like he could have defused the situation and didn't. Moreover, arguing "rights" and "the law" with a police officer is beyond stupid...such arguments are for a courtroom; not the lobby or an Arby's restaurant.

Edited August 23, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Oh Shoot]

Again, common sense did not prevail. He may have been right but, be he failed the,when to hold when to fold test.

He would have been breaking the law to have followed the LEOs order to cover the gun. Then he could have been arrested for a charge that would stick.

Very likely more transpired, though.

- OS

Edited August 23, 2012 by OhShoot

[zapfbroad]

I don't think KY postings like that have force of law

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[Ebow1]

A few things here. Things probably would have gone better for him had he politely informed the officer that his actions were completely legal, instead of simply saying no. Also, it's just an Arby's if things start getting heated just leave and go somewhere else for lunch.

[peejman]

Proof that LEO's don't always know the law. And proof that arguing with them about it rarely goes well.

[Curiousgb]

He would have been breaking the law to have followed the LEOs order to cover the gun. Then he could have been arrested for a charge that would stick.

Very likely more transpired, though.

- OS

I understand. However it is rarely productive to argue with police while holding a weapon. He could have simply left, but it appears he chose to stay and stir the pot. When I am carrying I am in avoid stir the pot mode.

[Murgatroy]

I don't think KY postings like that have force of law

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They don't. All they can do is ask you to leave. There are a whole bunch of things different in idea up here. Such as an employer can't prevent you from keeping it in your car, etc...

I don't know the whole story. I do know from one of the local boards that LMP (Louisville Metro Police) do have a habit of not understanding that open carry is legal. There are several anecdotes of folks that have been harassed and eventually allowed to continue on their way. This is the first time I have heard of an arrest though.

I have mixed feelings about it. I prefer to conceal, but there are times that I will open carry. Going out and looking for trouble with the law is not my cup of tea. Like I said, I don't know the whole story, and we should all know by now not to trust everything the media says.

They are staging a rally for him this weekend. Folks are going to open carry past the police station and head on down to Arby's. I am thinking about attending, but my wife is concerned that some folks might start trouble. So I am not sure. I don't think I would be carrying, just for argument's sake.

[221 Fireball]

I really don't understand those who want to open carry, get a CCW and carried concealed. One of the first steps in self defense is have the surprise advantage. Not much surprise to a thug when he can see you're carrying. You'd be his first target, as you'd be his immediate threat. I think some people just like to stir it.

[TMF]

I really don't understand those who want to open carry, get a CCW and carried concealed. One of the first steps in self defense is have the surprise advantage. Not much surprise to a thug when he can see you're carrying. You'd be his first target, as you'd be his immediate threat. I think some people just like to stir it.

Well, he was also 21 years old. He may have been saving up for the class or have already submitted paperwork. I would call this one 2 mins in the box, offsetting minors for the two parties involved. I'm sure he wasn't arrested just because of OCing. The article mentions that his family got involved and began arguing. Who knows how it escalated from there, but since a bystander got involved and assisted in subduing the arrested party, I'm guessing he wasn't playing nice. The cop needs re-education on the laws. Either way, I wouldn't be caught throwing support behind this guy without the whole story. Good chance he might not turn out to be squeaky clean.

[Guest nysos]

I really don't understand those who want to open carry, get a CCW and carried concealed. One of the first steps in self defense is have the surprise advantage. Not much surprise to a thug when he can see you're carrying. You'd be his first target, as you'd be his immediate threat. I think some people just like to stir it.

This isn't an open carry vs CC carry and the center of the debate is the fact that he was doing something illegal and detained for it. For whatever reason, he may have made the decision to start carrying and even taken the necessary steps to get his permit, but may not have received it yet. The point is that it doesn't matter whether he was OC, it was completely legal and at the time he doesn't have any other choice but to OC to be legal. There without a doubt is missing information, and he may have been quite rude to the officer which I would expect to get him detained.

[D3vo]

He would have been breaking the law to have followed the LEOs order to cover the gun. Then he could have been arrested for a charge that would stick.

Very likely more transpired, though.

- OS

Agreed and looks to be the point of the post. How this (and everything else) evolves into CC vs OC gets old. We have threads for that. Should I raise one from the dead? [End Rant]

[monkeylizard]

No need to go grave robbing. There's a fresh one going right now.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/51364-chic-fil-a-at-turkey-creek-knoxville/

[RobertNashville]

This isn't an open carry vs CC carry and the center of the debate is the fact that he was doing something illegal and detained for it. For whatever reason, he may have made the decision to start carrying and even taken the necessary steps to get his permit, but may not have received it yet. The point is that it doesn't matter whether he was OC, it was completely legal and at the time he doesn't have any other choice but to OC to be legal. There without a doubt is missing information, and he may have been quite rude to the officer which I would expect to get him detained.

The article noted that the restaurant has a policy against unconcealed firearms (indicating to me that they don't have a problem with concealed carry).

I wonder, then, how is this policy made known?

Also, if there is signage that most people can see that makes that policy known, then I wonder if this guy saw it and decided to go in anyway or if he just didn't know?

If he knew, through signage or any other reason, then why would he chose to ignore the polcy?

As was noted, it appears signage doesn't have the force of law but I suspect that if you aren't wanted there for any reason it can turn into a matter of trespassing.

As usual, actually knowing all the details would be enormously helpful but also as usual; we have some info and probably a lot we don't know.

[Guest nysos]

As usual, actually knowing all the details would be enormously helpful but also as usual; we have some info and probably a lot we don't know.

That, and I am chalking it up to that this article is like 99.999% of every other article that the press writes and is half incorrect on count of ignorance.