Carrying in restaurants that serve alcohol

[Hoky_Tonk69]

I've had too many people tell me too many variances to this and I want to find out 100%. I went to Red Robin in Hendersonville on Saturday night... While not posted on the entrance, there was a sign near the bar about carrying where alcohol is served and consumed. I do not drink alcohol anymore unless in the comfort of my own home, and even then it's only a beer or 2 with dinner or a small glass of Jack daniels before bed to help me sleep.

So is it legal or no? I am tired of unholstering my gun to go into a restaurant just because they serve alcohol.

[monkeylizard]

That sign is out of date and no longer applies. You're good to go unless it's posted property.

You can't drink when carrying, posting or not.

Edited August 20, 2012 by monkeylizard

[RobertNashville]

If just the bar is posted then the bar is off limits.

AFAIK a business doesn't have to post the entire building if it doesn't want to just like a business can post the business but not the parking lot (but could post both if it wished).

[monkeylizard]

Robert's right, if the bar area is posted. It can be posted while the rewst of the restauarnt is good to go.

If you're referring to the old signs that said something like "It is an offence to carry a firearm where alcohol is served" and cites some part of the TCA, those are old, and would not contain the language needed in the current posting law found in TCA 39-17-1359 to make the bar off limits. That seems to be the general consenus around here. since there's no test case on 39-17-1359 yet, nobody's exactly sure how those old signs might try to be enforced if someone wanted to really push the issue.

Edited August 20, 2012 by monkeylizard

[Guest nysos]

If it is a sign referencing "where alcohol is served" you can carry past it. As monkey stated, it is an outdated sign that no longer applies - similar to the signs in state parks.

[RobertNashville]

That sign is out of date and no longer applies. You're good to go unless it's posted property.

You can't drink when carrying, posting or not.

If that's true (not saying it isn't) then it's reasonable to wonder why they haven't taken the sign down. If they left it up out of ignorance/simply don't care then it might be wise to ask the management. If they left it up because they really don't want firearms in their bar area then "legal" posting or not...I'm not going to give them my money.

Edited August 20, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Guest nysos]

If they left it up out of ignorance

They probably don't know any better.

Edited August 20, 2012 by nysos

[monkeylizard]

The old signs will reference TCA 39-17-1305. That portion of the law has been repealed.

Someone else on here (Fallguy or Dolomite perhaps?) mentioned some time ago that they thought some alcohol boards still required the old signs to be up even though 39-17-1305 had been repealed. It was just a matter of a department's policies not changing quickly enough to reflect the then rapidly changing gun laws. In those cases, you can't really hold the restaurant responsible for that.

nysos makes a good comparison to the state parks signs. No longer legally binding, but not required to be taken down, either.

Edited August 20, 2012 by monkeylizard

[Hoky_Tonk69]

Thank you everyone for clearing this up for me. Much appreciated.

[daddyo]

If "just the bar is posted", then where is the line that defines where the "restaurant" ends and the "bar" begins, especially since I keep hearing that there is - legally anyway- no such thing as a "bar" in Tennessee?

[monkeylizard]

TCA 39-17-1359 says that the posting has to be at the entrance to the property or area of the property that is being marked as off-limits. In theory, a big gun buster up behind the bar would not be legally binding since you don't have to walk past the back wall to sit at the bar. Picture the typical O'Charley's or Outback restaurant. To properly post just the bar area, they would have to have a gunbuster or properly worded sign at each of the walkways that allow access to the bar.

They could also stick a gunbuster on the bathroom doors and then the bathrooms are off limits. It's not a "bar" or "not bar" so much as it's a section of the building vs another section of the building.

That's my interpretation of the letter of the law. Your DA may disagree.

[Oh Shoot]

If that's true (not saying it isn't) then it's reasonable to wonder why they haven't taken the sign down. I...

Because apparently some state ABC reps were still telling some places that the signs had to be up, long after the law changed, might be one reason.

These are the type signs that have been non sequitur for over two years now:

- OS

[daddyo]

If that's true (not saying it isn't) then it's reasonable to wonder why they haven't taken the sign down. If they left it up out of ignorance/simply don't care then it might be wise to ask the management. If they left it up because they really don't want firearms in their bar area then "legal" posting or not...I'm not going to give them my money.

On the other hand, if it doesn't carry the weight of law and can be disregarded, why would you want to bring it to the attention of management so they can put up legal signage?

[RobertNashville]

Because apparently some state ABC reps were still telling some places that the signs had to be up, long after the law changed, might be one reason.

- OS

Surely you aren't implying that our over-worked, under-paid public servants didn't know the laws that specifically touched on the job they were supposed to be doing are you?

Edit: I mean no offense to those good, knowledgeable public servants who really are over-worked and under-paid!

Edited August 20, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Guest D.B. Cooper]

I work in the restaurant industry, and I can tell you that it's probably a combination of ignorance and laziness Putting up and taking down signs that don't directly impact the current marketing of the restaurant is one of the last things on a restaurant managers mind. And no, taking down a sign because of a law change isn't a "marketing effort".

[JayC]

If just the bar is posted then the bar is off limits.

AFAIK a business doesn't have to post the entire building if it doesn't want to just like a business can post the business but not the parking lot (but could post both if it wished).

The sign he's talking about isn't a 39-17-1359 posting, so NO the bar isn't off limits...

It's an out dated sign that the ABC requires (yes it's still on their checklist to make sure you have the sign), even though the law the sign refers to has been repealed and is off the books.

I can tell you from personal experience it's still on the ABC checklist (as of about 6 months ago), and the 'inspectors' go off the checklist, it's like trying to argue with a meter maid about a parking ticket... it's on the checklist you must have it up, no matter what state laws says

These signs can be complete ignored legally, they are not a legal form of posting and again the law they reference was repealed 2+ years ago. And I'd make the assumption in this case they are still being told to keep the sign up by the state inspector... so I wouldn't mention it to the manager or owner, and I wouldn't read too much into it (as in pro or anti gun), other than to bug the ABC board into updating their checklist.

Edited August 27, 2012 by JayC

[Steelharp]

I asked the manager of our local Chili's (Gallatin) about this since the bar has a post. He said that I and my handgun were absolutely welcome anytime, just not in the bar.

[BPE]

Pancho Villa Grill in Goodlettsville on Long Hollow Pike has this signage at the front door that the OP is referring to. I've walked by it twice and had a chuckle. I've consider talking to the owners but not for long. However, if they intend to post after finding that it is invalid then I won't go there any more... but it's some of the best Mexican food around so I let them have there smiles and I'll have mine. I would akin alerting them to walking into any other business and pointing out that they're not posted and I have gun, so I keep my mouth shut. It's just as legal to walk past a bad sign as it is to walk past no sign at all. Where's the need for discussion?

[aaron3961]

I went to this little restaurant on the square in Winchester the other day for lunch and about the time they set my food in front of me I noticed a sign behind the lunch counter that said something to the effect of " gunfire can ruin your day, leave your guns at home". There was nothing posted on the door, so I just kept eating. That was a pretty lame attempt to keep armed customers out, but I figured if the owners of these places don't want me to legally carry in their establishments, I'll spend my money somewhere else. I've quit patronizing several places because of the little signs on the door.

[Guest JMB]

I figured if the owners of these places don't want me to legally carry in their establishments, I'll spend my money somewhere else.

That's kinda the way I feel about it. Fortunately I haven't run into many places around here who posted after the law was changed.

There were a few, but with the economy continuing to struggle, guess they got over their fear of serving armed customers with money to spend.

Edited September 17, 2012 by JMB