Pistol Caliber Carbine Help!

[Guest ASmartOne]

First post!

What pistol caliber carbines (PCC) are available right now? I want something for, mainly, plinking but I also want it to serve for defense. Now, I wasn't planning to get a PCC right away because I want my carry permit and a handgun to with it. However, I may be able to get a good deal on a used Beretta Cx4 Storm.45 ACP. However, the price of .45 acp ammo, combined with the fact that the .45 Cx4 ONLY has an 8 round mag puts me off a little bit.

So I would like to know if I should look elsewhere before buying the Cx4. Cause if I can pay less for a just-as-good gun, I would like to know.

These are the three common models that I know of:

(1) Beretta Cx4 Storm

(2) Kel Tec Sub 2000

(3) Hi Point Carbine

And the Hi Point isn't really on that list because I want a nicer gun, just personal preference.

Sorry this post got long but I had a lot to say.

[dlm37015]

hi point carbines are very good

[Oh Shoot]

The Kel-Tec isn't any "nicer" than the Hi-Point. I'd rate quality of build about the same.

The Subbie of course offers additional capability via the folding feature and hi-cap mag availability, so in some ways it's "niftier" -- but you pay for that of course.

- OS

Edited August 12, 2012 by OhShoot

[G27]

Big fan of the Sub2ooo, personally. It's a tack driver.

[Guest Aces&8s]

^ What they said... If you need hi-cap, I would go with the KT. Otherwise, the Hi-Point carbines are exceptional guns, and a great value.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I have a Cx4 Storm in 9mm and like it fine. They were scarce when I was looking a couple years ago but finally found one pretty cheap at a gun show that was in-box with apparently un-read paperwork in the baggy and all accessories. It had been shot enough to need a cleaning so somebody ran at least enough ammo thru it to get it dirty, but couldn't have been much.

About the same time, a long-time TGO member who is ordinarily expert and honest, reported he had one that the bolt wore out and got unreliable after a few thousand rounds. So maybe it would be worth searching the web to see if the Cx4 has a reputation for that. Mine works fine and even if it will need a new bolt after a few thousand rounds it will be years in the future unless I start shooting it more. The accuracy seems fine as best I can tell. Seems that most 9mm rifles are blowback, but it doesn't seem to adversely affect accuracy. The bolt is a rather large component in that rifle.

My Cx4 uses the beretta 92 mags. I had a bunch of 10 and 15 round 92 mags already and the carbine came with 2 mags, can't recall whether 10 or 15 rounders. Got a couple of factory beretta 92 20 rd mags that about cost their weight in gold, but on the other hand 92 mags seem to last forever. They work fine but the springs are stiff. Maybe they will loosen up. I load em with a mag loader. Iron Man might be able to poke 20 rds into those mags without a loader, but I'm not Iron Man.

I shoot rifle left-handed and it was easy to convert to left-handed eject without buying any extra parts.

A local dealer known to put together good AR's, but not known for bargain basement prices, had a spikes 9mm they had put together and said they had tuned and debugged it so it would run right. They said 9mm AR's don't necessarily run right until you tweak em. Maybe should have got a spikes 9mm carbine rather than the Cx4, but the price was a bit high.

edit-- If you get a Cx4 and want the "full assortment" of rails, it would be good to look for one so-equipped already. Some ship with all the extra rails and some don't. Just sayin, it is possible to buy the extra rails, but they can often be out of stock. So if you get one planning to buy the extra rails, you might have to wait awhile and look a lot of places before finding all of em in stock.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Mike.357]

crossing off the Hi Point is laughable.

[Oh Shoot]

crossing off the Hi Point is laughable.

Plus the TS model has all the groovy rails on it too, unlike the Sub2K.

[LI0NSFAN]

Have all 3 and shoot the hi-point the most and the Beretta the least. I have noot had any luck keeping the storm working. I have had it at the gunsmith 4 time for different things. I like the sub for the capacity you can get. I would rethink crossing off the hipoint, everyone I know that has one would shoot that over the other 2. I am only keeping the Beretta because I spent to much to get it and can't stomach taking a hit on it.

[Steelharp]

I owned two Hi Points. They both stunk.

I owned two Sub 2000's. They were ok; just didn't like the "toy like" feel.

Had a couple Marlin Camp 9's. I liked them; but the warning about +p ammo in them made me decide to sell them.

Found a used Ruger PC9. While I had a runaround with Ruger in getting it refinished, it is the best 9mm carbine I've ever owned. 16 rounds of tack driving excellence.

[Guest ASmartOne]

Did some more research this morning, I think the Sub2k is taking the lead. 9mm? Check. 33 round Glock mags? Check. I also found a company, courtesy of KTOG, that make replacement metal front sights and a rail that keeps the folding function.

I do think the Hi Point is a good buy, but it just doesn't interest me.

Thanks and I appreciate all the great suggestions!

[Moped]

For the money, you won't beat Hi-Point with the others on the market. I've heard and seen horror stories with the Kel-Tec breaking at the hinge. Lifetime warranty on the Hi-Point as well. If something breaks on them, send it in and Hi-Point will repair it. I found off brands that sucked. If you like the look of the Storm, you can replace the stock with an ATI that makes the Hi-Point look like a 1st cousin of the Storm.

The one caveat, I have about the Hi-Point is use only Hi-Point Mags. And they are a PITA to breakdown and clean, but as OS pointed out, I must be the only one that ever did that. Most people just run a patch down the barrel and spray some oil on the bolt and call it good.

If you want to spend a lot of money, why don't you go ahead and pick up an AR in 9mm. They are out there.

[Steelharp]

If you want to spend a lot of money, why don't you go ahead and pick up an AR in 9mm. They are out there.

There is also the Just Right carbine that uses Glock mags; another option.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Seems everyone has forgot a BIG one in the 9mm carbine market.

The AR. My wife's AR has at least 8K rounds through it and other than hiccups with certain HP's it is very, very reliable. It is the most reliable gun I have ever owned. Also, they run even when dirty. I cleaned it at about 3K and again a few months ago when I stripped all the Krylon off of it. So we had at least 4K rounds through it since the last cleaning. You can find mags for it for under $20 for steel mags that run right. They also use UZI mags after you cut the mag catch slot. They take all the same accessories as a standard AR.

Her 9mm AR will be with us until it gets passed to our son.

Dolomite

[Murgatroy]

There is also the Just Right carbine that uses Glock mags; another option.

The Just Right Carbine or an AR build would be my personal pick.

I am currently trying to decided between the two. With an AR build you can get the LWD lower and it will take Glock Mags as well. Meaning that for all intents and purposes, the Kel-Tec is old news, unless you want a plastic folder.

The JRC doesn't fold, but it takes all the AR accessories, and you can swap the bolt handle and ejection from side to side. Then there is the fact that you can pick them up for a little more than an AR upper, making it is slightly better deal than an AR build.

With an AR build though (sans the LWD Lower) you are using off the shelf parts and you can modify or build the rifle into different calibers if that is your cup of tea.

Just pulling numbers, you can build a 9mm rifle using a Colt style upper and mag block for $500 on your own lower. The JRC runs around the same.

[Dolomite_supafly]

The LWD lower had issues in the past. Hopefully they have them fixed by now.

The issue itself wasn't the biggest concern, telling a customer to sand the lower to fix the problem is.

Dolomite

[A.J. Holst]

The only "complaint" I have with my HP after thousands of rounds is the 10 round capacity.

I got a chance to shoot DS's 9mm AR - sweet platform, if I was after another 9mm carbine, something like that would be on my short list.

If you don't need hi-cap, what about a .38/.357 lever gun? I did some investigating since I've got revolvers in that caliber.

Ultimately I passed since I have a "low cap" pcc already.

[nightrunner]

There is also the kriss vector if you dont mind paying for it.

And on the flip side im a huge fan of lever actions in .357mag/.44mag/.45colt for serious use

[Oh Shoot]

...And on the flip side im a huge fan of lever actions in .357mag/.44mag/.45colt for serious use

And they don't need mag changes and if you are proficient at running them, they never run out of ammo.

- OS

[Guest ASmartOne]

Hey, Dolomite, did you build that 9mm AR? I think I would take an AR over the JRC.

Also, my brother has a Henry 22 lever action. He has let me shoot it and I love that gun! Of all the guns I have shot, it is one of my favorites. Something like this would do nicely for a 357. http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/1894centerfire/1894c.asp

[Guest ochretoe]

I have a Marlin .38/.357 carbine and the KTsub2000. Both are good guns that are paired with a pistol or two. I carry the sub2000 in my work truck and it is accurate. The Marlin is just a fun gun to shoot but ammo is not as cheap for me so I shoot the sub more. (I am issued .40 ammo) I don't plan to ever sell either.

[Oh Shoot]

.... Something like this would do nicely for a 357. http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/1894centerfire/1894c.asp

Try and find one for MSRP.or less. Or at all, actually.

- OS

Edited August 13, 2012 by OhShoot

[Motasyco]

I called Hi Point this morning. The operating handle and roller were missing from my 995 when I picked it up yesterday to throw it in my truck. It likely vibrated out while the gun was riding in it's assigned duty station, the rack on the front of my 4 wheeler. The 995 makes a great 4 wheeler accessory. I can't blame Hi Point as this gun takes a beating and is subject to a lot of vibration. I suspect a dab of Loctite would have prevented this issue and will be used going forward. The parts are on their way, no charge, covered under warranty, no questions asked. Thanks Hi Point for the great customer service.

[Oh Shoot]

The parts are on their way, no charge, covered under warranty, no questions asked. Thanks Hi Point for the great customer service....

Did same with my C9, getting light strikes, they send firing pin and springs right away. Free, of course.

Their prices on mags and accessories include shipping also.

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

Hey, Dolomite, did you build that 9mm AR? I think I would take an AR over the JRC.

I put it together using a Garrison Manufacturing kit. They are long since gone. I did go through and thin the barrel some to make it lighter for the wife.

Dolomite