Mexican Drug Cartel Used "Fast and Furious" Gun in Failed Assassination PlotMexican Drug Cartel Used "Fast and Furious" Gun in Failed Assassination Pl

[hipower]

No matter how much Obama wants it...this just isn't going away.

[gjohnsoniv]

That's what he deserves.

[DaveTN]

Everyone in Mexico that has been shot, has been shot with a “Fast and Furious†gun. Those guns really got around.

[Garufa]

What is this all about? Got a link?

[gjohnsoniv]

Here is one link I found.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/07/report-drug-cartel-used-fast-and-furious-weapon-in-failed-assassination-plot/

[plank white]

what was the plan with Fast and Furious anyways ? what was the Point?

To incite violence and war on the border then blame it on americas guns and fast and furious would have never been found out?

why incite violence on the border and blame it on our guns?

Was the objective to make us look bad so they could ban our guns?

How did we find out about fast and furious in the first place ?

If stuff like this goes on with gov. trying to covertly incite violence and take away rights, Why aren't more people pissed ?

Why does Holder still have a job?

Why haven't people been charged with treason for this ?

sorry just alot of questions come to mind over this with not many answers , To me this is worse than the watergate scandle and didnt that get the president sent home ?

Why dont people get stark raving mad over crap like this?

[Guest Lester Weevils]

what was the plan with Fast and Furious anyways ? what was the Point?

To incite violence and war on the border then blame it on americas guns and fast and furious would have never been found out?

why incite violence on the border and blame it on our guns?

Was the objective to make us look bad so they could ban our guns?

How did we find out about fast and furious in the first place ?

If stuff like this goes on with gov. trying to covertly incite violence and take away rights, Why aren't more people pissed ?

Why does Holder still have a job?

Why haven't people been charged with treason for this ?

sorry just alot of questions come to mind over this with not many answers , To me this is worse than the watergate scandle and didnt that get the president sent home ?

Why dont people get stark raving mad over crap like this?

Hi plank

It was ATF agent whistleblowers, mediated by two obscure right wing bloggers. Mike Vanderboegh is an old fella who is sick and may not be with us much longer, who has spent the last couple of years on this and little else. David Codrea is his partner in crime on the matter.

If you go to his blog-- http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/

Scroll down a little, looking on the right-hand panel for a heading, "Project Gunwalker Scandal Resources" and get about as good details and history as you will find, all in one place.

[plank white]

Hi plank

It was ATF agent whistleblowers, mediated by two obscure right wing bloggers. Mike Vanderboegh is an old fella who is sick and may not be with us much longer, who has spent the last couple of years on this and little else. David Codrea is his partner in crime on the matter.

If you go to his blog-- http://sipseystreeti...s.blogspot.com/

Scroll down a little, looking on the right-hand panel for a heading, "Project Gunwalker Scandal Resources" and get about as good details and history as you will find, all in one place.

well Im glad someone came forward and spoke up I can only imagine what would be unfolding now if they hadnt .At the same time I wander if the actual wistleblowers are upset with how the majority of folks in this country seem to not care and how they let Obama and Holder sweep this under the rug without major upheaval ,and have basically let them walk with no penaltys . Dont get me wrong Im glad it was thwarted but where is the massive outcry . Our government was cought redhanded trying to basically incite a war on our own border with the intent of using that war to suppress Gun Owners , Seems like this should be the Number one topic on every media network till resignations are signed and possibly even prison time is given out if this doesnt constitute government corruption and "Treason" against America then what does? All the harping over ruby ridge and waco led nowhere It seems as if folks are just to desensitized to what is going on / and or they simply dont care they have more important things to worry about Like the next episode of Jersey shore or whatever.

Sorry but this really makes me sick , and makes me want to tear down every "Don't Tread on me" Flag I come across because by God we have been Tread upon and it just doesn't seem to matter.

Edited August 11, 2012 by plank white

[TMF]

This was a case of good initiative, bad judgement. It has now turned into something that it was never intended to be, and folks are looking to bend laws and such to keep this from being addressed. I'm not excusing the poor judgement exercised here at the outset of the program, I just don't think it came with sinister intentions. The sinister intentions came about when folks responsible realized that their butts were in a sling.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

My opinion is "light on evidence" but I don't think "evidence free". Maybe it was just an operation run by nincompoops who had risen too high promoted on the peter principle. But it seems quite possible to have been run thataway intentionally to boost the number of mexican guns traced to usa gun stores, and to boost the body count in mehico traceable to usa gun store guns, in order to panic the sheep into at least a new assault weapon ban, or worse.

The whistleblower field guys were scandalized that they were being instructed by the chain of command to watch the sales but not follow and interdict the guns, or make any effort to trace the guns except when recovered in mexico. And the mexican gov was not told of the operation. Both of which are different features compared to similar programs under the Bush admin.

Hillary and others were making "unrealistically high" claims about the number of seized mexican arms traceable to the USA, and was being embarrassed when the claims were not supportable. Evidence seems to point to intentional gunwalking to boost the numbers, rather than just some dumasses who should have been janitors rather than supervisors and prosecutors.

[Mike.357]

whats the difference? Nothing is going to come of any of this.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

This was a case of good initiative, bad judgement. It has now turned into something that it was never intended to be, and folks are looking to bend laws and such to keep this from being addressed. I'm not excusing the poor judgement exercised here at the outset of the program, I just don't think it came with sinister intentions. The sinister intentions came about when folks responsible realized that their butts were in a sling.

Fast and Furious was good initiative?

It was all about gun control, friend.

[TMF]

Fast and Furious was good initiative?

It was all about gun control, friend.

I don't think so. It is not as if a program like that is unprecedented. Stuff like this goes on all the time, but there is better planning put into it. They just did a very poor job of implementing it. There were way better ways to go about doing it. I just think they didn't really think it through to consider the negative backlash it would have.

Not that I don't believe that Obama and his ilk intend to push restrictive gun laws on us, I just don't think that every time Obama takes a dump it is because he is out to get us.

[Chucktshoes]

Fast and Furious was good initiative?

It was all about gun control, friend.

Yep. It was never a LE effort. It was a political operation carried out by unwitting, and then unwilling law enforcement officers who became whistleblowers.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Chucktshoes

[Guest ThePunisher]

, I just don't think that every time Obama takes a dump it is because he is out to get us.

Everyday, I believe Obama tries in some way to sh#t on our constitutional republic, and he's done a pretty good job of it so far.

[Clod Stomper]

Why dont people get stark raving mad over crap like this?

Because people (as in, the Dumb Masses) only care about what the large media tells them to care about.

Remember when Dan Quayle supposedly misspelled "potato" (he didn't, it can be spelled either way)? That was the laugh of the country for WEEKS.

When Nixon, who the media hated, appeared to be involved in a cover-up of a break-in in a hotel room, he was drummed out of office.

But when Clinton allows missile technology to be sold to the Communist Chinese in exchange for campaign donations, crickets chirp....

I could go on and on. It's all about what the "masses" are TOLD to care about, not about what is actually important.

[Clod Stomper]

I don't think so. It is not as if a program like that is unprecedented. Stuff like this goes on all the time, but there is better planning put into it. They just did a very poor job of implementing it. There were way better ways to go about doing it. I just think they didn't really think it through to consider the negative backlash it would have.

Not that I don't believe that Obama and his ilk intend to push restrictive gun laws on us, I just don't think that every time Obama takes a dump it is because he is out to get us.

I'm sorry, the evidence points to the idea that this operation was nothing more than an attempt to pad the numbers of firearms traced back to the US. Hillary and O were running around claiming that 90% of guns recovered from Mexican drug cartels were traced back to US gun dealers (a blatant lie). So they had to MAKE it true.

You are right. It was not unprecedented. Under the Bush administration, ATF had Operation Wide Receiver. In Wide Receiver the guns, or at least some of them had tracking devices. The Mexican government was involved, or at least make aware of, the operation. There were 300 to 400 guns (I've read different numbers) involved in Wide Receiver. They were tracked by UAVs. When it was discovered that the gun-runners were disabling the tracking devices or making other attempts to not be tracked, the operation was canned in 2007.

Two years later, 2009, another operation was implemented. Fast and Furious involved about 2000 firearms. There were no tracking devices. As far as I've found, there was no attempt to track them other than "making a note" when they crossed the border. The Mexican government was kept in the dark about the operation. And most importantly, these guns have been recovered at crime scenes where, altogether, hundreds of Mexicans and two US federal agents have been murdered.

Would "whistleblowers" have come forward over something that was simply "unsuccessful"? I doubt it.

I thoroughly believe that Obama IS "out to get us". And the evidence points to such.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I don't think so. It is not as if a program like that is unprecedented. Stuff like this goes on all the time, but there is better planning put into it. They just did a very poor job of implementing it. There were way better ways to go about doing it. I just think they didn't really think it through to consider the negative backlash it would have.

Not that I don't believe that Obama and his ilk intend to push restrictive gun laws on us, I just don't think that every time Obama takes a dump it is because he is out to get us.

I like good rationalization. I always

feel better when I hear it.

Russkies don't take a dump without

a plan, son.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TMF]

I like good rationalization. I always

feel better when I hear it.

Russkies don't take a dump without

a plan, son.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Obama is a normal man just like you and I. He puts his pants on one leg at a time, the only difference is, when he puts his pants on it immediately raises suspicion regarding the second and third order effects of the conspiracy tied to how he fastens them... does he zip first and then button?? Or does he button and then zip???? I DON'T KNOW!!!

In all seriousness though, can you remember a time when there is some kind of border shooting or US-Mexico weapons smuggling case that wasn't used by the libs as a excuse for more gun control or the infamous "loophole"? They do it everytime regardless of gun tracker projects. It just so happens that when they did it in this case it was a result of a failed program launched by morons. Trust me, I've seen plenty of ambitious plans before hatched by office sitters that don't take into account certain environmental and reality based considerations. Like I said, there were better ways for them to do what they were trying to do. I'm not convinced they're that smart to be so diabolical; I just think they're that stupid and happen to be blessed with good spin doctors and media support.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

So by your vast experience you

think Hillary, gun control, Obama's

statements, Holder's statements

and that treaty are all just hanging

around while Fast and Furious is

going on is all just one big coincidence

or more Republican hysteria?

There's a forest out there. They say

it has trees in it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TMF]

So by your vast experience you

think Hillary, gun control, Obama's

statements, Holder's statements

and that treaty are all just hanging

around while Fast and Furious is

going on is all just one big coincidence

or more Republican hysteria?

I wouldn't call it hysteria. Some folks should swing for this, but I don't think the original intentions of it were to create an environment conducive to grab guns. They do that fine on their own. There is always a mass shooting or BS statistics to fall back on for the gun grabbers. If the deceased Border Patrol agent had been killed by a firearm not related to the gun tracker project the libs would have done the same thing... blamed gun show loopholes and such. It is, without fail, what they do. I think it was quite serendipitous that the firearm recovered from the Border Patrol shooting was related to the project and that didn't come to light until after the libs blamed gun shows. It will forever be an immediate response to claims that gun shows fuel Mexican drug violence. Every time someone blames a gun show we can say that it has a greater chance of coming from Eric Holder. Really takes the wind out of their sails.

The UN thing has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. It could cause issues for importing and exporting to/from certain countries but that'll get worked out. Money talks and the countries that are exporting arms to rogue nations and terrorist factions are in the other hemisphere... for the most part.

So those are the reasons I don't believe in vast conspiracies. There is never any question that liberal Democrats want to take away our guns. They don't try to hide it. Every time a gun is mentioned in any news report it is a flag to rally around for the left. This time they just happen to be involved in the fray because they are incompetent when it comes to executing a plan to exploit rat lines in the weapons smuggling industry. But like I said, for everything they've done after the fact, there should be some charges coming out of this. There won't be, but there should. Kudos to the Republicans for going after Holder. It hurt Obama in the short term. Hopefully it rears its head in October.

Edited August 13, 2012 by TMF

[Guest ThePunisher]

Everything these Marxist do has been a diabolical plan; just look at how Obamacare was passed. Just because Hilarycare didn't pass in '94 didn't mean they were going to give up their plans for destroying America's healthcare. They've been planning for these last four years for a very long time, but had only planned incrementally until now when they see the opening for an all out blitzkrieg of their Marxist/communist policies. The MSM obviously are complicit with them, due to the fact they never report anything that reflects badly on them, and I guess you could say somewhat that is conspiratorial.

Nothing about these Marxist policies and planning has been happenstance. They may appear inept at times, but these people are not total morons; they have had an agenda that's been planned for America's destruction for a long time, and if the commie gets re-elected, you can expect the implementation of their Marxist blitzkrieg.

Edited August 13, 2012 by ThePunisher

[Guest 6.8 AR]

You

I wouldn't call it hysteria. Some folks should swing for this, but I don't think the original intentions of it were to create an environment conducive to grab guns. They do that fine on their own. There is always a mass shooting or BS statistics to fall back on for the gun grabbers. If the deceased Border Patrol agent had been killed by a firearm not related to the gun tracker project the libs would have done the same thing... blamed gun show loopholes and such. It is, without fail, what they do. I think it was quite serendipitous that the firearm recovered from the Border Patrol shooting was related to the project and that didn't come to light until after the libs blamed gun shows. It will forever be an immediate response to claims that gun shows fuel Mexican drug violence. Every time someone blames a gun show we can say that it has a greater chance of coming from Eric Holder. Really takes the wind out of their sails.

The UN thing has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. It could cause issues for importing and exporting to/from certain countries but that'll get worked out. Money talks and the countries that are exporting arms to rogue nations and terrorist factions are in the other hemisphere... for the most part.

So those are the reasons I don't believe in vast conspiracies. There is never any question that liberal Democrats want to take away our guns. They don't try to hide it. Every time a gun is mentioned in any news report it is a flag to rally around for the left. This time they just happen to be involved in the fray because they are incompetent when it comes to executing a plan to exploit rat lines in the weapons smuggling industry. But like I said, for everything they've done after the fact, there should be some charges coming out of this. There won't be, but there should. Kudos to the Republicans for going after Holder. It hurt Obama in the short term. Hopefully it rears its head in October.

It's naive to think that the UN Arms Treaty, if signed and ratified by the Senate, wouldn't effect the 2nd amendment

of our Constitution. I don't think that will happen, but with what happened with the Affordable Health Care Act, don't

kid yourself. A treaty, once signed and completing the ratification process becomes part of the Constitution and can

]supplant other law. That's why it doesn't happen often.

I didn't say anything about a vast conspiracy. It's common knowledge the Democrats want to get rid of all guns,

except those held by the governnent.

You can believe what you want, but Fast and Furious was only meant to be used as a tool to further that very agenda.

There is no indication to the contrary.

Just calling them incompetent is also naive, along with thinking certain aspects will also get "worked out".

[Guest ThePunisher]

It's common knowledge the Democrats want to get rid of all guns,

except those held by the governnent.

Maybe that's the reason the DHS bought 450 million rounds of ammo.

Just a thought; if the 90 million gun owners all had 100 rds. of ammo, that would total 9 billion rounds for gun owners. I would think the gun owners have more than one hundred rounds.

Edited August 13, 2012 by ThePunisher