After a SD/HD shooting

[10-Ring]

An acquaintance of mine came very close to having to use his weapon recently and it has really got me to thinking. I want input on what measures need to be taken in the unfortunate event that someone needs to shoot another person in self defense. I've spent a lot of hours recently going over what happened to my buddy in my head and asking myself what I would have done. I'm a pretty logical person and of the mind set of "don't step out the front door unarmed" but thinking about this incident sometimes just gives me the chills and makes me feel very anxious, but I think that's just because what happened to him could have just as easily happened to me.

Lawyers- Should all of us that carry have a lawyer in mind that we would have represent us? I'm thinking that this would be a great idea and also to carry your attorneys business card with you. If I had to shoot someone I think I would politely tell the detective when they arrive that I wish to speak to my attorney before speaking to him. It might even be a good idea to call the attorney before the police arrive? How can we find a good lawyer? I recently did business with a local attorney on something very minor, he does criminal law too but I would not want his goofy butt defending me in anything serious.

Anyway, here is what I would do afterwards if I had to shoot someone in self defense.

1) Secure weapon so that it is not on my person when the police arrive.

2) Don't disturb anything that could be considered as evidence. I have no formal medical training, so I don't feel as if I could help my assailant if he is still alive. Thoughts on this?

3) Try to remain as calm as possible.

4) Contact attorney ASAP.

5) Make sure that I in no way appear threatening to the police when they arrive.

6) Don't discuss the matter until I have spoken with my attorney.

I would appreciate any additional input. I'm just going with my gut on all of this and I'm not an expert so please feel free to tell me if any of these are dumb ideas.

[jaxjohn419]

When we took our CCW safety course here in TN, we had a guy from pre-paid legal talk about this stuff. We signed up and keep paying monthly, JUST IN CASE we need an attorney for any incident.

[dats82]

My thoughts is that I would not be in too much of a rush to secure your weapon. The closest I ever came to needing my weapon was while I was spending some time in Kansas City. I had to be in a bad area of town, and one night I had a man follow me to my truck after stopping at a gas station. He was begging for money, but he was holding this shoe box rather suspicious like. He did not leave when told to, and even after I had gotten in my truck, he was right at my window with his box. Either way, I don't mean to hash out the details, but all I am saying is that after you have to use your weapon, you need to stay on the scene. If you are in some home boy's territory and you just put a hole in him to drain the stupid out, don't you think there is a good chance some of his buddies would be interested in harming you before the cops arrive? What I'm saying is that I am not going to be disarming myself until I feel certain the area is under control. For me, that is when the cops arrive. When you call 911, you need to give a description of yourself as the defensive shooter, and when the police arrive, follow their commands in regards with what to do with your weapon.

Edited August 8, 2012 by dats82

[10-Ring]

I have a friend that does the pre-paid legal thing as well. I think the issue that I would have with pre-paid legal is that they could send anyone to represent me. Much like my weapon of choice it is one of those things that I'm not looking for the most economical one out there, I'm looking for the best one out there. I'm a tight SOB but there are some things that smart people spend good money on. Guns and lawyers (if my butt could be going to prison) are two of those things.

[10-Ring]

My thoughts is that I would not be in too much of a rush to secure your weapon. The closest I ever came to needing my weapon was while I was spending some time in Kansas City. I had to be in a bad area of town, and one night I had a man follow me to my truck after stopping at a gas station. He was begging for money, but he was holding this shoe box rather suspicious like. He did not leave when told to, and even after I had gotten in my truck, he was right at my window with his box. Either way, I don't mean to hash out the details, but all I am saying is that after you have to use your weapon, you need to stay on the scene. If you are in some home boy's territory and you just put a hole in him to drain the stupid out, don't you think there is a good chance some of his buddies would be interested in harming you before the cops arrive? What I'm saying is that I am not going to be disarming myself until I feel certain the area is under control. For me, that is when the cops arrive. When you call 911, you need to give a description of yourself as the defensive shooter, and when the police arrive, follow their commands in regards with what to do with your weapon.

Good info, I don't want to go into a lot of detail but I work in a remote area without cell service or other means of contact. If something were to happen at work, then more than likely someone (possibly a stranger) would have to drive to an area where there is coverage and call it in. Therefore I would not have an opportunity to talk to dispatch myself. Also in my particular situation once the initial threat is eliminated I feel certain that the threat would be over unless the perp had someone else with them. I also know most of the local LEO and they know me so I do have that going for me, I still can't be too careful or count on that. They are aware of the dangers that I am facing and are aware that I carry (I carry open at work and have had several positive conversations with the LEOs.)

[Dennis1209]

Sounds like you've answered your own questions very well. I personally will do everything I can to retreat and avoid having to use a weapon.

The odds are very, very slim you will ever have to fire at someone in your life time. I carried the sort of pre-paid legal fees from CHP for a year and decided to drop it because of the odds ($135.00 a year). The NRA and others offer this "insurance" for a yearly fee.

You should at least have a business card in your wallet / purse and by your home phone of a good criminal lawyer who specializes in self defense, just in case. Even if it's on your own dime.

Just my .02 cents.

[Guest Glockster27]

When you call 911 I would give them a very detailed dexcription of yourself as the defensive shooter and holster my weapon IF the situation allows. I would also have an attorney on retainer. I wouldn't say anything about what happened to the police until I talked to the lawyer. I would also let the police know that I want to see a doctor.

I recently joined the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc. at www.armedcitizensnetwork.org. They have lawyers that are affiliated with them in many different areas. The price isn't to bad (cheaper than pre-paid Legal per year). Hopefully I will never have to use their services.

[10-Ring]

Sounds like you've answered your own questions very well. I personally will do everything I can to retreat and avoid having to use a weapon.

Thanks, these are just things that made sense to me. Just wanted to seek the advice of others and see if I was on the right track.

The odds are very, very slim you will ever have to fire at someone in your life time. I carried the sort of pre-paid legal fees from CHP for a year and decided to drop it because of the odds ($135.00 a year). The NRA and others offer this "insurance" for a yearly fee.

I realize that the odds are slim that I will ever have to use my weapon. I just feel like this topic is not one that has been thoroughly covered. Shall the need arise I feel that we should all know exactly what to do and what not to do. I can see where someone involved in a shooting could say or do the wrong thing and then have some hotshot DA coming after them for homicide. I see the issue as what to do afterwards just as important as being prepared for that event in the first place. Make the wrong move and you could easily go from "citizen defending them self" to murderer.

You should at least have a business card in your wallet / purse and by your home phone of a good criminal lawyer who specializes in self defense, just in case. Even if it's on your own dime.

That's my thought as well, now I just have to find a good one.

Just my .02 cents.

When you call 911 I would give them a very detailed dexcription of yourself as the defensive shooter and holster my weapon IF the situation allows. I would also have an attorney on retainer. I wouldn't say anything about what happened to the police until I talked to the lawyer. I would also let the police know that I want to see a doctor.

I recently joined the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc. at www.armedcitizensnetwork.org. They have lawyers that are affiliated with them in many different areas. The price isn't to bad (cheaper than pre-paid Legal per year). Hopefully I will never have to use their services.

Again, my main concern about something such as this is do you really know what you are getting? Are you getting an experienced trial lawyer that has extensive experience in these kinds of cases or are you getting a wet behind the ears attorney that was still in law school earlier this year?

[TMF]

I'm not an LEO, but if I showed up to a homicide and the shooter had already contacted a lawyer before my arrival and said they don't want to talk to me I would be assume they have something to hide and will change the way I interpret information going forward. You live in Tennessee. As long as you have nothing to hide you'll be fine.

I dunno, LEOs?

Edited August 8, 2012 by TMF

[BryanP]

I'm not an LEO, but if I showed up to a homocide and the shooter had already contacted a lawyer before my arrival and said they don't want to talk to me I would be assume they have something to hide and will change the way I interpret information going forward. You live in Tennessee. As long as you have nothing to hide you'll be fine.

I dunno, LEOs?

I'm not a LEO, but I'd think that like anything it's a matter of how you handle it. There's a world of difference between these two scenarios:

"Officer, thank you for getting here so fast. As I told 911, I've been involved in a self defense shooting. My holstered firearm is over there. Here's my driver's license and my handgun carry permit. As suggested in my HCP class I've contacted my attorney and he has advised me not to discuss this matter any further until I can confer with him."

"I got nothing to say to you cops until I can talk to my lawyer!!!"

Edited August 8, 2012 by BryanP

[TMF]

I'm not a LEO, but I'd think that like anything it's a matter of how you handle it. There's a world of difference between these two scenarios:

"Officer, thank you for getting here so fast. As I told 911, I've been involved in a self defense shooting. My holstered firearm is over there. Here's my driver's license and my handgun carry permit. As suggested in my HCP class I've contacted my attorney and he has advised me not to discuss this matter any further until I can confer with him."

"I got nothing to say to you cops until I can talk to my lawyer!!!"

True, it is all how you say it I guess, but it is also how it is interpreted by the LEO.

I get the concern here about what happens later on. I have an uncle that was involved in an SD shoot in Florida a while back and he was very cooperative. The police commended him on his actions, having shot the assailant 3 times, and he had no problems.... until the liberal DA took a go at him later on. The shoot itself was justified, but since he had admitted to first firing warning shots from his vehicle while attempting to flee the assailant he was charged with some kind of BS endangerment crap. It was later dropped, but I guess it shows that having a lawyer's advice before giving a statement makes sense. However, I would still want to be cooperative as I could with those officers when they first get on scene and not give them any indication that I have something to hide.

[Guest bkelm18]

Personally, I'm of the mind that the easier I make it on the responding officers, the better off I'll be. I'll tell them I was in fear of my life and I will lay out the series of events exactly how they happened. If they start asking questions that go into "dangerous" territory, I'll ask to speak to my lawyer before going any further.

[D3vo]

First off I took a class at Vol State in Gallatin that was excellent and addresses what you can expect to happen in a self-defense shooting.

The simulator is also excellent.

Order may vary, but.... IMHO

#1, Secure your weapon so that it's not in your hand when the officer arrives. If it's in your hand at that time you might just be ordered to the ground.

#2, If you hear Miranda, shut up.

#3, Expect to go downtown. It was explained to me it is investigated as a homIcide.

Edited August 9, 2012 by D3vo

[chances R]

FYI, Pre-Paid legal is a good product. I have sold it for the past 6 yrs. I also have it. The best thing about it is that you have 24 hour access to attorneys with a 1-800 call. Is your attorney always available, even when on vacation. What about if you are in another state? In TN, it is ran by a very large law firm with attorneys experienced in all the various fields of law. They also have affiliates in about every state. It is certainly a good emergency resource, plus useful in other personal aspects. (ever get a speeding ticket?) Be glad to share more if you have questions. Just drop me a PM

[Trekbike]

I listened to two free podcasts on iTunes a while back on the subject. They were from Marty Hayes which runs the Armed Citizen Legal Defense Network. I tried to link them directly from iTunes but it didn't work. If you are interested go to the podcast section. Look for Practical Defense podcasts. The info is in two podcasts. The first one is episode 198, titled The Decision to use Lethal force by Marty Hayes. The second part is episode 201 titled Legal Aftermath with Marty Hayes.

These were extremely informative. You will have to first listen past the info about the Armed Citizen Network "commercial" but then he goes into the details of what to do. I took notes so I could review it from time to time. It's a worthwhile listen.

[peejman]

This is a pretty good book that addresses this topic.... http://www.amazon.com/Lessons-Armed-America-Mark-Walters/dp/0982248768

[Dennis1209]

When you call 911 I would give them a very detailed description of yourself as the defensive shooter and holster my weapon IF the situation allows. I would also have an attorney on retainer. I wouldn't say anything about what happened to the police until I talked to the lawyer. I would also let the police know that I want to see a doctor.

I recently joined the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc. at www.armedcitizensnetwork.org. They have lawyers that are affiliated with them in many different areas. The price isn't to bad (cheaper than pre-paid Legal per year). Hopefully I will never have to use their services.

If you can afford it, it's certainly worth it provided you read the fine print and do your home work.

Before I selected a company I did my home work. Some organizations pay your attorney X amount of dollars for a retainer up front. Some you won't see a dime until your adjudicated justified. Some will pay your lawyer all the way through the grand jury, some won't. Allot of SD products to choose from.

Anyone ever heard of "Defense Shield"?

[Makiaveli]

Personally, I'm of the mind that the easier I make it on the responding officers, the better off I'll be. I'll tell them I was in fear of my life and I will lay out the series of events exactly how they happened. If they start asking questions that go into "dangerous" territory, I'll ask to speak to my lawyer before going any further.

I agree with this except the part where you start telling them what happened in detail. Because you will leave out a detail or twenty, and when you retell it and change something that you had wrong, or remember something else he said it will sound a lot like you are changing your story.

Used to work with cops day in and day out and everyone I spoke with told me pretty much the same thing, say you were in fear and STFU. The more you talk, the more they will have to testify to. If you tell two slightly different stories, a prosecutor or lawyer for the plaintiff can force them to say so on the stand, and it won't matter a damn if you were innocent.

[EastHipster]

Dunno.....

Having prepaid legal in case you have a SD Shooting seems like a sucker product to me.

And can you imagine how THAT would have played in the news in the Trayvon case?

But to the original topic, you can be cooperative without giving a full statement.

No LEO would hold it against you (none that I know anyway).

They would do the same

[Guest sL1k]

At my hcp class they advised the simple fear for my life. I Will come down to the station if needed for a statement at a later time (with lawyer present) not mentioned to the Leo. The reason behind this is adrenaline and shock. What if you doubt your actions? Have guilt ? Not remember everything due to this? And then make your statement . They also mentioned requesting to be taken to the hospital yourself when officers arrive for possible shock as some people can have a heart attack after such stress.

[ted]

Watch this it may help

Edited August 9, 2012 by ted

[Guest CCI]

Watch this it may help [media=]

[/media]

Well worth watching, and practicing!

[Dennis1209]

Dunno.....

Having prepaid legal in case you have a SD Shooting seems like a sucker product to me.

And can you imagine how THAT would have played in the news in the Trayvon case?

But to the original topic, you can be cooperative without giving a full statement.

No LEO would hold it against you (none that I know anyway).

They would do the same

Good point. If you had the insurance and the DA found out, I guess they could paint you like you were preparing to shoot someone. Never considered that.

[Hershmeister]

Agree that prepaid legal is useless. Just because you would want to talk to your attorney does not mean you have to have had one pre-selected. In fact I would think this would give you more time just to get over the shock of having just shot another person.

I do recommend that everyone buy an umbrella insurance policy. You can be sure you will get sued civilly by the victims family if you killed someone.

Most of these policies run about $100-$200 a year per million in coverage. It also protects you for many many other things such as car accidents, etc.

[tnhawk]

I'm sure a DA would try to use anything he can to persuade a jury to gain a guilty verdict after a shooting. I keep the business card of an attorney behind my HCP. I also have auto insurance, but that doesn't indicate that I plan to have an auto accident. Most of us will never have to fire a weapon in self defense, but we prepare for the moment it could happen.

Edited August 9, 2012 by tnhawk