FFL situations.

[Guest Shep Stoner308]

Not sure if this has been covered before, I searched the forums and could not find anything related.

I purchased a shotgun from gunbroker.com thru an auction that turned out to be in Arizona. I have recently moved to a new location in Tennessee of course, and so I did not use my normal FFL person that I had been using. I used one at a local pawn shop here in town. I gave him the information as to the other FFL with the address and such required things. The transaction was made and I was called to pick up my long gun. Here is where it breaks the protocol that I was accustomed to at my previous FFL.

When I walked into the shop, my shotgun was not in its shipping box, it was out of the box behind the counter. I walked up to the person there and we began to chat. He started telling me what a good deal I had gotten on the JC Higgins 101.1 shotgun and that he had talked with the seller about this and that, and bla bla bla. Later, I even had asked to get the box to carry it out of the shop and he thought that he had already thrown it out. Luckily he had not, as shipping boxes are not free.

Anyway, my question is this. Are not the shipping boxes with your weapon in them not to be opened until the purchaser is present ? The reason I ask this is because my previous FFL, on my first purchase thru his shop, did not open the box until I was present and made a point to explain to me that he was not allowed to touch it, and that I was to open it as the buyer in his presence.

Also, what about the shop talk about my personal purchase as to the price of the weapon? Should that not be any of the FFL's business on the receiving side of the transaction? Its a small town here, if he knows what i paid for it then that might hurt my chances of selling it for a reasonable profit.

Maybe I got bad information from my first FFL, not sure. But at a minimum here it appears to me that this FFL that I did use this last time will not get any more of my business either way.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Shep Stoner308

[Oh Shoot]

I can't answer all your questions, but the FFL has to log the weapon into his bound book before he can transfer it to you, and needs the type/make/serial number. The last two I had transferred, they had already done that before I got there, gun packages were already open, only had to do the 4473.

So I doubt if there's any BATF rule about it, but certainly don't know for sure.

At least he didn't take it out and shoot it. There's a story on site here where a FFL did that with a suppressor he was holding for the buyer.

- OS

Edited August 7, 2012 by OhShoot

[mikegideon]

I have only done several stripped lowers. They were always unpacked, and in their white boxes. I assume they logged them in when they hit the door.

[Guest Shep Stoner308]

Sounding like maybe the first information I got may have been wrong.... so far with comments then. Still what about the price I payed for the shotgun..... would that not be private? Going to bed, will check back tomorrow. thanks.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Shep Stoner308

[TMF]

I've always had the box broken open but they've never just discarded the box they came in. That would bug me, especially if it was the original factory box or something like that. I had a buddy in Florida that had a Galil sent to his FFL (not a crappy knock off, the real deal in .308) and when he went to pick it up a few days after it came in the dealer had it on display on the wall behind the counter with the rest of the merchandise. Bad form. He told me he'd never use that gun store for anything ever again.

[DaveTN]

They are required by law to be logged in. So no, they don’t have to wait on you, some people wait several days to pick up a gun; the dealer can’t have it that long without it being logged in.

Also, what about the shop talk about my personal purchase as to the price of the weapon? Should that not be any of the FFL's business on the receiving side of the transaction? Its a small town here, if he knows what i paid for it then that might hurt my chances of selling it for a reasonable profit.

Buying a gun with the intention of flipping it for a profit is a crime, so he probably didn’t think about you being concerned about that. The only way he could have known the price is if the seller told him.

[Guest Shep Stoner308]

I am really glad I posted this, its good to know what is accepted and normal. Seems for some reason my first FFL was a little "different" then.

Buying a gun with the intention of flipping it for a profit is a crime, so he probably didn’t think about you being concerned about that. The only way he could have known the price is if the seller told him.

Holy Cow! Well I buy all of my weapons with the intent of maybe selling them one day for a profit. Its really against the law? Is there a certain time period before you can sell? This confuses me Dave, is there a link where I can study this? Thank You for your remarks.

[Daniel]

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/laws/

[willis68]

They are required by law to be logged in. So no, they don’t have to wait on you, some people wait several days to pick up a gun; the dealer can’t have it that long without it being logged in.

Buying a gun with the intention of flipping it for a profit is a crime, so he probably didn’t think about you being concerned about that. The only way he could have known the price is if the seller told him.

I have bought I would guess over 20 Long and short guns in Tennessee in the last 5 or so years, in every event the person or company who shipped the firearm provided a receipt and included it in the Box or case. That is how they all have seen what I have paid. In every case they were opened and inspected to be sure the serial number matches and the correct firearm was shipped to them, I cannot think of anytime when the box was discarded though,

[Guest bkelm18]

I am really glad I posted this, its good to know what is accepted and normal. Seems for some reason my first FFL was a little "different" then.

Holy Cow! Well I buy all of my weapons with the intent of maybe selling them one day for a profit. Its really against the law? Is there a certain time period before you can sell? This confuses me Dave, is there a link where I can study this? Thank You for your remarks.

There's a difference between buying a gun solely to make a profit on it, and buying it for personal use then later on selling it and making a profit on it. Buying a gun today for $500 then turning around and selling it tomorrow for $600 might not be a great idea. But selling it off a few years from now for $600 really wouldn't be considered buying/selling for profit.

Edited August 7, 2012 by bkelm18

[Guest Shep Stoner308]

There's a difference between buying a gun solely to make a profit on it, and buying it for personal use then later on selling it and making a profit on it. Buying a gun today for $500 then turning around and selling it tomorrow for $600 might not be a great idea. But selling it off a few years from now for $600 really wouldn't be considered buying/selling for profit.

I really did not buy this shotgun with the intention of selling it, its a single shot 12 guage and it was in excellent condition. I wanted to get it to add to my prep armory as a reliable gun that will likely never break down. But if someone offered me tomorrow say 200 more than what I payed for it, I would have a hard time turning that down.

[1gewehr]

When i was an FFL, I ALWAYS opened every box as soon as possible to ascertain any shipping damage and that everythin gthat was supposed to be in the box was present. Also, you need to open the box to verify the serial number, even if it is on the packing slip or box.

I also used to pack everything back up in the original box for the customer unless several firearms came in one box. Most dealers I've dealt with work in a similar manner.

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you buy a gun with intent of reselling it for profit or you buy and sell guns as a source of income you must have a license, otherwise you are breaking federal law. Buying a gun, using it for a few months then reselling it isn't going to get you into trouble. Buying a dozen guns, using them for a few months then reselling probably will. Buying and selling the same gun in close proximity, timewise, will probably raise some eye brows as well.

This also applies to buying a stripped AR lower and assembling the AR with the intent of selling it. When you do that you are in trouble twice over. Not only do you need a FFL to buy and sell the gun but you also need a manufacturers license to take a stripped receiver, assemble it into a functioning firearm and sell it. There are A LOT of people who are guilty of this without knowing the law. You cannot legally "make" a firearm with intent to sell without a manufacturers license. A stripped lower is not a rifle or a pistol ad when you assemble the lower into either your have "manufactured" a firearm.

I know it is hard to tell intent so what they generally look at is the numbers being sold. A person who is illegally buying and selling guns rarely does just one or two.

Dolomite

[Guest Shep Stoner308]

If you buy a gun with intent of reselling it for profit or you buy and sell guns as a source of income you must have a license, otherwise you are breaking federal law. Buying a gun, using it for a few months then reselling it isn't going to get you into trouble. Buying a dozen guns, using them for a few months then reselling probably will. Buying and selling the same gun in close proximity, timewise, will probably raise some eye brows as well.

This also applies to buying a stripped AR lower and assembling the AR with the intent of selling it. When you do that you are in trouble twice over. Not only do you need a FFL to buy and sell the gun but you also need a manufacturers license to take a stripped receiver, assemble it into a functioning firearm and sell it. There are A LOT of people who are guilty of this without knowing the law. You cannot legally "make" a firearm with intent to sell without a manufacturers license. A stripped lower is not a rifle or a pistol ad when you assemble the lower into either your have "manufactured" a firearm.

I know it is hard to tell intent so what they generally look at is the numbers being sold. A person who is illegally buying and selling guns rarely does just one or two.

Dolomite

Excellent information Dolomite, thank you.