Former CIA Army General: Martial Law Expected & “Warranted�

[TMF]

All:_________________

I'm a big Moonbattery Blog fan. Found this today. Interestin read:

http://moonbattery.com/?p=15413

Food for thought.

leroy

Yeah, this was posted in another tin foil thread. So, if an O-6 makes up a fictitious scenario about the tea party it is cause for concern? Officers do this war game stuff all the time. As I understood it the point was to poke holes in domestic policy, something that is normal. Our military should have every contingency planned for and constantly be exposing flaws in policy. That is why we have the best military in the world. We have plans to invade countries that we have to intentions of ever invading. That doesn't mean we're gonna up and invade Portugal tomorrow just because there is a plan to do so.

[Guest CCI]

65-signs-that-the-economic-collapse-is-already-happening

http://www.thecomingdepressionblog.com/just-open-up-your-eyes-and-look-65-signs-that-the-economic-collapse-is-already-happening/

[Guest CCI]

Economic Effects of Reducing the

Fiscal Restraint That Is

Scheduled to Occur in 2013

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/FiscalRestraint_0.pdf

[leroy]

Yeah, this was posted in another tin foil thread. So, if an O-6 makes up a fictitious scenario about the tea party it is cause for concern? Officers do this war game stuff all the time. As I understood it the point was to poke holes in domestic policy, something that is normal. Our military should have every contingency planned for and constantly be exposing flaws in policy. That is why we have the best military in the world. We have plans to invade countries that we have to intentions of ever invading. That doesn't mean we're gonna up and invade Portugal tomorrow just because there is a plan to do so.

RE: "...So, if an O-6 makes up a fictitious scenario about the tea party it is cause for concern? ...". The short answer is "yes"... This is, in my view, a genuine cause for concern because it smacks of a government sanctioned military or dictatorial coup commissioned by duly elected officials in a country which originally had strict prohibitions against this type action (...the old possee comititus provision....) until recently ALA the Patriot Act (...which is neither patriotic nor legal; it just aint been challenged in court real well yet....). There was a great battle when this nation was young over the standing army thing; and to a great extent, the concerns were well founded.

I do happen to think that if you think that plannin to raise arms against a substantial population of your own countrymen for the purpose of "exposing flaws in policy" (...by the way, exactly what policy do we have that would entail shooting, rounding up, or limiting the freedoms of the populace?...) its a bad thing; no matter the position in the military or civilian heiarchy. There was a fella by the name of Abraham Lincon that did the same thing several generations back in this countrys history with devistating results.

leroy

Edited August 8, 2012 by leroy

[TMF]

RE: "...So, if an O-6 makes up a fictitious scenario about the tea party it is cause for concern? ...". The short answer is "yes"... This is, in my view, a genuine cause for concern because it smacks of a government sanctioned military or dictatorial coup commissioned by duly elected officials in a country which originally had strict prohibitions against this type action (...the old possee comititus provision....) until recently ALA the Patriot Act (...which is neither patriotic nor legal; it just aint been challenged in court real well yet....). There was a great battle when this nation was young over the standing army thing; and to a great extent, the concerns were well founded.

I do happen to think that if you think that plannin to raise arms against a substantial population of your own countrymen for the purpose of "exposing flaws in policy" (...by the way, exactly what policy do we have that would entail shooting, rounding up, or limiting the freedoms of the populace?...) its a bad thing; no matter the position in the military or civilian heiarchy. There was a fella by the name of Abraham Lincon that did the same thing several generations back in this countrys history with devistating results.

leroy

Nobody's planning to do anything. It was a ficticious story made up by a retired 0-6 and a history professor. I bet if I sent an email to one of my field grade buddies and asked them to make up a story about a modern day insurrection they could do it. That doesn't mean that "Washington" is planning to do anything. This article is simply to highlight the unique scenarios that would be presented in the event of a State wide insurrection in modern times and what the powers of the government would be to restore order.

As far as I'm concerned, if a State secedes the government has every right to use the military to crush the revolt. I am a proud Southerner, but I also recognize that secession was a poor choice in a pissing contest in which both sides were to blame. If cooler heads would have prevailed perhaps we wouldn't have had the bloodiest tragedy in American history.

To get riled up about this goes beyond tin foil hattery. The only thing in this article I find 'red flag' worthy would be his mention of the tea party movement. But who knows, maybe that was thrown in there by this commie chick professor, or perhaps the retired Colonel is a Democrat. I dunno, but I know that it means nothing at all in regards to our Armed Forces. For crying out loud, are we to get spun up every time a retired coot says something to the media or writes fiction?

[leroy]

TMF:___________

I happen to think you are right on most all your post; especially the bottom line. Hopefully, this is a tempest in a tea pot and nothin will come of it. I genuinely hope so too.

The principal difference between what you and i think is that you seem to see this as a "...no never mind..." with regard to commissioning the writing of a goofy problem definition and spendin time and dollars afterward "studying the problem", and ya seem to think that folks shouldnt get bent out of shape nor be concerned about it. On the flip side; I see the idea that the government of the USA ever considering this (....much less doin it....) study in our free society as a bad thing; and further than that, a thing that is unprecidented in our national history. This is the kind of stuff that was studied in the old communist block and in china, not the USA (....if it's studied at all; which i think it is....). I dont trust the basic benelovence of government (...especially this particular administration....) and i dont think anyone else should either.

I think that the present political climate in this country is much like the climate that was present on the eve of the civil war. Its divided into two factions, which are not necessarily equal; who are stirred up at the actions of the faction opposing them, head to head. One side stands for statism and authoritarian government and the other believes in the founding principles of the country. Each side is howling and barking about the actions and motives of the other and looking for any reason (...real or imagined; no matter how outlandish...) to howl about and make political hay with.

Nobama aint helpin himself in this because he is a statist and an authoritarian at heart, and comes across as an archtypical overbearing, "smartest guy in the room" jackass eastern block type guy that has decided to govern via executive fiat to the extent he can ALA the executive order route, and by bullying the congress and judicial branch ALA the "Chicago Way" in order to ram things down the collective throats of any who might oppose his policies. That causes those on the other side (...me included...) to be suspect of everything he and the "government" does; including what we are talkin about here.

Whether we like it or not, Nobama is the Commander and Chief of the military in the good ole USA now, and that's a fact. The good news is that on a personal basis, i believe that the general feminization of society here in the good ole USA, Providence, and the individual honor of key folks will most likely keep any coup type tendencies in check. In my mind, the fact that a relatively sane citizen of this country is having thoughts like we are discussing here; plus the fact that lots of others are havin it too, is a cause eyebrows to be raised among the populace.

I think that this next election cant come too soon; as it will probably calm down a bunch of this type thinking. I guess my problem is that im suspicious by nature and ive never seen as much government meddling and general reprisal against companies and individuals who are perceived as "enemies of the state" (...read that political opponents and constituencies opposing certain administration thinking and policies on items like coal production, real energy businesses like oil, gas, enviornmental regulation, union vs "right to work" states, etc, etc....) as i am seeing now. I'm a relatively old guy (...im 65; will be 66 this month...) and have followed politics most all my life. Ive never seen it this hot and devisive before.

leroy

Edited August 9, 2012 by leroy

[TMF]

Well, I agree that the devisive tactics of the administration have really polarized the country more than I have ever seen. And you're right, this is probably what it felt like in the years leading up to Lincoln's election. I just don't quite think we're there yet, and I believe the pendulum will swing in the minds of the voters before we do get there.

As far as this article goes, the odd thing that sticks out is the mention of the tea party movement as a uniting belief structure that gets this ball rolling. Every scenario I've ever been involved in during exercises are involving an enemy of a made up country or terrorist organization. I couldn't understand why this Colonel would use a popular political movement to build this scenario as it would detract from the actual scenario he would want his students to think through. But then I read one of the comments on Small Wars and it made a little more sense to me. The comment points out that while it is sensitive to use an existing organization, it was probably done in order to be more thought provoking for his students. If it was a made up organization, or an existing radical organization like the KKK or NBPP it might make the answers a little "too" clear to the students as an extremist organization, even if they are American, would be easily dismissed and viewed one dimensionally in the scenario. However, a popular political movement that is not rooted in violence or extremism such as the tea party movement would cause the students to look at the scenario less as an "us versus them" and rather "us versus Americans" and consider that into their planning. The article goes on to highlight the laws which military officers cannot violate in such a scenario, and so identifies capability gaps that wouldn't exist in full spectrum operations conducted outside our borders. For example, doing something as simple as an overflight to collect imagery of insurrectionist road blocks would be illegal for the military to do. Any imagery used would have to be open source such as Google Earth or Map Point.

All in all, the scenario itself is quite silly. It omits so much in terms of what would reasonably happen if such an event ever took place. That is why I don't take it as something of concern, just something that a professor was trying to use to get his students to consider what their left and right limits are on our soil. Perhaps he is regretting using the tea party thing now that this has become a big deal, or maybe he is pleased that it was so thought provoking and added that much realism to the project. Of course, he probably shouldn't have submitted it to Small Wars to be published on the internet. He should have figured that something like this would happen and folks might take it out of context.

[leroy]

TMF:_____________

Enlightening and well thought out post above.

Thanks for the insight.

leroy