Former CIA Army General: Martial Law Expected & “Warranted�

[Oh Shoot]

I really dont see martial law working in the US.... Especially not in the South.....

No, down here it'll have to be that marshal law I see mentioned from time to time.

- OS

[Links2k]

Late getting here. Just checking to see what we are afraid of today.

[vontar]

Late getting here. Just checking to see what we are afraid of today.

I think it is a rotating list, One day they are coming for our guns, next day the economy, next Obama is going to be relected, and Martial Law. Every now and then it gets picked up with a fun variety pack. For me, the price of bullets.

[Paladin132]

I fear you guys are incorrect.

In the face of adversity most people roll over. Look at gun owners today - many voted for an anti gun president. Whats more is that many will vote for him again. Many vote for anti gun congressmen and senators. Further, martial law does not mean they round everyone up, it means that the suspension of all the civil rights that we have fought and died for since the 1700s. How did Katrina work out? Not at all well for lawfully armed citizens. Not at all well for the public perception of law enforcement. Not at all well for the public perception of the military in domestic civil operations. And couple that with the amount of information available to folks through electronic means today and it adds up to allot of powerful tools for civil operations against a threat to the nation.

Never surrender your rights, no matter how trivial today for tomorrow they may mean everything to your progeny.

As for the General, I have never met him, however I did meet and work for numerous flag officers. None of them were stupid, none of them were off base. I disagree with some of them, but they are by definition experts in the field of national security more so than any bureaucrat who is appointed after graduating suma cum lade at even are most prestigious university. I give him more credibility than any of those folks. I remind you of our national security adviser who said that the Muslim Brotherhood that spawned Ayman Zawahiri is a secular organization.

Fact is there is no right answer in dealing with people, or nations who are ruled by people. Consider the fact that right now there are Tu-95s running nuclear deterrence patrols against the US for example. Seems rather odd yes?

All I am saying is be cautious.

[Guest CCI]

Uncle Sam knows he can't control it all at once, if the SHTF! He would start on one coast, and work his way to the other!

[monkeylizard]

Every time I log on to TGO, calling a realtor from House Hunters International sounds better and better. Fiji sounds nice.

[RobertNashville]

I always wondered with approximatly 320 million people in the U.S., how can anyone think martial law could be enforced? If anything, a declaration of martial law would actually greatly increase civil unrest, and possibily cause unrest and division in the military. Enforcing martial law and getting the whole population to comply is impossible. We are far from the French and Germans of the 30s and 40s.

The only way that any law can be enforced is if the vast overwhelming majority of the people are willing to obey the law thus allowing identification/incarceration/eradication of those few who don't abide.

We could destroy the income tax system, property tax system, sales system or any other system in very short order if people simply refused to pay (which is why most taxes are collected automatically before you get what's left).

[dlm37015]

it worked in nashville when mlk was shot

[Guest ThePunisher]

Just think that we were in a cold war with the Russian commies for seventy years, and now the commies have infiltrated our government and are about to declare Marshal Law on the country without even firing a missile at us. The commies are here and we don't even know it. That's irony.

[TMF]

Paging OS... your services are needed. It's like you have a crystal ball.

[Oh Shoot]

Paging OS... your services are needed. It's like you have a crystal ball.

Them Marshals apparently don't take no shyte.

- OS

[Mike.357]

this can't go on forever. Sooner or later the pyramid that is the US budget will go belly up.

I have no clue how many more years it will take.

No tellling the pooh that will hit the fan when it happens.

Martial law is not a concern.

Store some preps.

[Paladin132]

Right less worried about things like that than actually having food and water - and crime rates going up.

[Trekbike]

Martial Law imposed by the government implies that everyone will cooperate. Getting over 300 million to cooperate with the government will be one huge task.

If the government can control the food supply, then they can control the people. It's as simple as that.

[Lumber_Jack]

If the government can control the food supply, then they can control the people. It's as simple as that.

Not an easy task. It works in third world countries because the people have no power. Guns are power, and as long as the power lies with the people, we can get the food!

[DaveTN]

If the government can control the food supply, then they can control the people. It's as simple as that.

Control? With approximately 50% of the households in America having guns, how do you define control?

Our combined Armed Forces is approximately 1.5 million. Assuming they would all participate in some type of Martial Law (they won’t); they don’t have manpower to control this county. They would barely have the manpower to protect their own bases and weapons.

Martial law because of some large scale disaster, the people would comply and help fix the problem. Martial law to control citizens because of an economic or political collapse; not happening…. Can’t.

[Seabeejason]

It would be next to impossible. There are over 300 million citizens in this country. It would be a colossal undertaking. Not to mention the fact that millions of those citizens will be hungry and eventually desperate. Just keeping things from going completely bonkers will be a big enough challenge. You also can't neglect the fact that our military and law enforcement are American citizens themselves. Getting them to forcefully control the population will be a challenge in itself. You really think our military will overwhelmingly obey orders to oppress the American people? Orders that came from a bunch of rich greedy bureaucrats that started this mess in the first place? I don't think so. I spend 10 years in the military and I know that most of them are good people that will do what's right. There are some mindless drones in the military too, but they're in the minority.

I am not worried about the government taking over and sticking us in camps. As long as we have our firearms we will be just fine. I do not intend to use mine to fight anyone in any case, unless I have no choice. Hunting is my primary intention. Keeping food on the table and clean water to drink is number one on my priority list. That is what most folks should worry about.

[Trekbike]

Control? With approximately 50% of the households in America having guns, how do you define control?

Agreed, but how many of those households have more than a few small boxes of ammo on hand? Most folks don't have a stock pile.

As Seabeejason said, I'm guessing as well that most military folks wouldn't carry out certain orders, but there would be some that would.

[mikegideon]

Control? With approximately 50% of the households in America having guns, how do you define control?

Our combined Armed Forces is approximately 1.5 million. Assuming they would all participate in some type of Martial Law (they won’t); they don’t have manpower to control this county. They would barely have the manpower to protect their own bases and weapons.

Martial law because of some large scale disaster, the people would comply and help fix the problem. Martial law to control citizens because of an economic or political collapse; not happening…. Can’t.

If it really goes to hell, the ones that are imbedded in society (most law enforcement) are going to be concerned for their own families. Some percentage of them will focus on that. I know I would.

[Guest ThePunisher]

Agreed, but how many of those households have more than a few small boxes of ammo on hand? Most folks don't have a stock pile.

As Seabeejason said, I'm guessing as well that most military folks wouldn't carry out certain orders, but there would be some that would.

Don't know how much ammo is enough, but by reading some gun forums, people seem to have been buying a lot the last 4 years anticipating something stupid by the government. Probably the reason ammo prices are high.

And I would think if something bad goes down, I think that all the politicians will go into hiding.

Edited August 5, 2012 by ThePunisher

[DaveTN]

Agreed, but how many of those households have more than a few small boxes of ammo on hand? Most folks don't have a stock pile.

As Seabeejason said, I'm guessing as well that most military folks wouldn't carry out certain orders, but there would be some that would.

And they would die.

Keep in mind this isn’t the middle east where we have antiquated weapons and AK’s/Mosins/ that are short range weapons. We have the highest quality long range target and hunting rifles with optics that will dispatch kill shots at hundreds of yards. In a residential environment a hit and run sniper with a .308 and two boxes of ammo could take out a lot of people.

You would be left with small rogue bands that could cause some damage, but would be quickly taken out. A unit couldn’t maintain cohesiveness while that was going on; even if they were willing to kill Americans.

It’s just a tin foil hat scenario put out there by media nutcases that are making money off it. They want you to believe your government is going to declare war on its citizens. Ain’t going to happen and wouldn’t work if they tried.

A very real threat would be the bands of roving looters in a large scale natural disaster or the collapse of our economy.

If it really goes to hell, the ones that are imbedded in society (most law enforcement) are going to be concerned for their own families. Some percentage of them will focus on that. I know I would.

That’s what happened during Katrina. The cops went home to help their families and neighbors.

.

[mikegideon]

I have some heavier calibers for long range stuff. The swiss cheese happens at 300 yards

[Wingshooter]

If things get a lot worse, I could see martial law in some of the bigger cities initially under the excuse of controlling riots or looting. Martial law on a national level just doesn't seem possible, but ML in some big cities could possibly be used to control the Interstate road systems, limit food/gas supplies, and be used as an attempt to disorganize the masses. I'm not worried about it, but I still don't trust our government not to use it as a tool to chip away at our economy and freedoms.

[DaveTN]

I'm not worried about it, but I still don't trust our government not to use it as a tool to chip away at our economy and freedoms.

To what end? I’m not trying to be a smart azz, but what possible reason could our government have to turn on its citizens? If Martial Law goes into effect the Constitution is put on hold. You don’t have rights or freedoms. “Tool to chip away at our economy or freedomsâ€?? Using martial Law on a large scale wouldn’t be “chipping awayâ€; it would be destroying them with a sledge hammer. Other than a natural disaster (think San Andreas Fault sending the West coast into the Pacific, or New Madrid devastating the central U.S.) or economic collapse; what would be the reason?

[Wingshooter]

To what end? I’m not trying to be a smart azz, but what possible reason could our government have to turn on its citizens? If Martial Law goes into effect the Constitution is put on hold. You don’t have rights or freedoms. “Tool to chip away at our economy or freedomsâ€?? Using martial Law on a large scale wouldn’t be “chipping awayâ€; it would be destroying them with a sledge hammer. Other than a natural disaster (think San Andreas Fault sending the West coast into the Pacific, or New Madrid devastating the central U.S.) or economic collapse; what would be the reason?

I'm not saying that the Goverment would turn on it's citizens. I don't think they would declare martial law on a large scale. That just doesn't seem possible to me for the same reasons that many have already stated. What I mean is that if you apply the logic of "Never let a good crisis go to waste (Rham Emanuel of Chicago)", some progressives in office might see an opportunity to "fundamentaly change the United States of America (Obama)" if the crisis presents itself. I know it's tin foil hat stuff. All I am saying is that martial law may not be possible on a national level, but it is possible on a smaller local level in some of the larger cities. Martial law in any of our cities for whatever reason would be a crisis, and there are those in power that seem to use that to their advantage.