EMP would give America 'government by disaster

[Guest Lester Weevils]

The fluoride conspiracy did work. Current conspiracies build upon fluoride success. What do you think caused the libtard epidemic? Countless millions so brain-damaged from fluoride poisoning that not even the standard detox regimen would help-- Distilled water, fresh rain water, and pure grain alcohol.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[TMF]

Thanks TMF

I'll leave obsessive worry about Iran to the recipients of Bill Kristol's happy holidays mailing list, who will be foreign policy advisors in the Romney admin. Members of the neocon garage band and choral society. Booked for the inauguration ball to perform a beach boys acapella harmony rendition of "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran."

Hadn't been paying much attention. From earlier reading had got the impression that many years ago A. Q. Kahn had most likely distributed detailed blueprints to the usual suspects, and Iran is basically awaiting the centrifuges final spin cycle on the Uranium Tetrafluoride laundry, and a final parts shipment back-ordered from Radio Shack and Ace Hardware.

Yesterday read a bit more and dunno what to think. Wikipedia has a long detailed article on A. Q. Most likely written by pakistani engineers, as the grammar and writing style is more tortured than even the chicken scratchings of USA engineers.

Part of the article praises A. Q. as a super genius and one heck of a great guy. And then another part of the document makes clear that A. Q. is a preening conceited idiot savant who barely knows metallurgy and centrifuges, doesn't know squat on nuclear physics or practical bomb technology, who was barely allowed out of his cage long enough to witness the atom bomb tests, prone to inaccurate public statements and who habitually claims the work of others as his own.

Was also reading about the Pak nuclear program and it's hard to say whether those guys can make a 2 MT device smaller than a railroad tanker car. Maybe they don't have plans to give away even if A.Q. had copies. Difficult to know. As demonstrated in the run-up to the Iraq invasion, nobody from any nation would ever lie about capabilities. What pak has demonstrated are nukes up to 40 KT and some small explosions that are either fizzles, successful tactical neutron bombs, or successful H-Bomb trigger cores, depending on who you want to believe. No public hard data that they can build a megaton range three-stage device that will fit on a scud, but who knows.

I'm certainly no expert on the Paki nuke program and usually pronounce it "nukyooler", but I would suspect that Pakistan's history of cloak and dagger politics leaves itself to the possibility of leaking secrets to countries that shouldn't have them. But then again, even though it's possible, and even probable, it is a long stretch from state sanctioned research sharing and only gives pieces to a very large puzzle. There are a lot of folks with a lot of money that don't want the Iranians to be nuclear. I believe that those folks probably have a greater influence on Paki policy than the US could ever hope to. The Iranians need the recipe for fried chicken. The fact that they got the lard and the pan still puts them a long way off from perfecting KFC gold.

Edited August 6, 2012 by TMF 18B

[atlas3025]

The only point that I will add is that it is naive for anyone to believe that a country comprised of people who will strap explosives to themselves--and their children--are really deterred by a concept such as MAD.

Points of debate should be based ONLY on their ability to strike as we have no way to accurately assess thier willingness. I realize the hypocries of their leaders who never wear a suicide vest themselves. But one could argue that both Saddam and OBL strapped on the "proverbial vest", because they knew what their ultimate outcome would likely be.

These people have no concern for the "Earthly" consequences of their actions.

[KaNuckles]

"One Second After" by William R. Forstchen is an interesting read on this subject. EMP is real; the novel is fiction but will provide you a lot to think about.

+1

Excellent book!

[Atom Tactical]

Avoid the effects of an EMP...If you're really worried about an EMP get yourself a metal shipping storage container and line the inter with radiant barrier foil, it works well and will double as a anti thermal imaging...I know first hand it works extremely well as an anti thermal imaging...between the metal shipping storage container and the foil, an EMP is less than 3% effective...We have put it through several test and nothing got in and nothing got out...The radiant barrier foil is very commonly use as insulation for building and can be found at any major building supply center and is very available on line...There is a correct and incorrect way to install the foil so do some home work...it's easy to do 

[Caster]

Dude, you got a heckuva big shovel to dig this :poop: up from FOUR years ago.   :bowrofl:

[Atom Tactical]

LMOA I'm new and read your post and then looked at the dates that was posted LMOA again...I'll have to start looking at the dates...BUT...the good news is the radiant barrier foil has only been in use for anti thermal imaging in recent findings...still LMAO

Edited May 10, 2016 by Atom Tactical

[MacGyver]

Dude, you got a heckuva big shovel to dig this :poop: up from FOUR years ago. :bowrofl:

But, if you're going to dig one up - then by all means pull out the stops.

I was just sitting here wondering how one tests for effectiveness on EMP shelters, tin foil hats, Faraday cages, etc. Physics is physics, I guess.

Fun fact - did you know there are only 21 people certified to teach high school physics in the state of Tennessee?

[felinesNfreedom]

LMOA I'm new and read your post and then looked at the dates that was posted LMOA again...I'll have to start looking at the dates...BUT...the good news is the radiant barrier foil has only been in use for anti thermal imaging in recent findings...still LMAO

 

 

Can you make hats out of it? 

[monkeylizard]

Jade Helm!

[Mark A]

Dang... I knew I left my way back machine somewhere...

Welcome to the crazy little world of TGO. If you aren't being given some joshing by someone you should be worried.

Mark

[No_0ne]

But, if you're going to dig one up - then by all means pull out the stops.

I was just sitting here wondering how one tests for effectiveness on EMP shelters, tin foil hats, Faraday cages, etc. Physics is physics, I guess.

Fun fact - did you know there are only 21 people certified to teach high school physics in the state of Tennessee?

 

I resemble that remark ...

[Sam1]

We have put it through several test and nothing got in and nothing got out...

 

Handling electronic devices as evidence, we have to use faraday bags constructed from different types of materials, depending on what the device is because one material will not block all frequencies.  If you have a singular material that is blocking 97% of transmissions in or out, you need to get into the business of selling faraday evidence bags because you'll be a millionaire by the end of the year.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Sam1

[Sam1]

I resemble that remark ...

 

You also wonder about the effectiveness of tin foil hats? :D

[jgradyc]

After reading One Second After, it seems to me that Faraday cages aren't going to be very helpful.  So your phone, laptop, portable radio, and iPad survive... so what? All you'll hear is silence. What are you going to do with these devices if there is no power and you can't get on the internet? You can't put your car's electronics in a Faraday cage.

 

If you have a shortwave radio, maybe that would be helpful, provided you have a way to use solar power to charge the batteries.

 

My thinking after reading One Second After is that all my old bicycles are going to be worth their weight in gold... scratch that, gold will be worthless... worth their weight in salt, ammo, rice, dried beans, etc. I'd bet that my 20 year old Schwinn would be an even trade for a handgun. 

Edited May 10, 2016 by jgradyc

[nightrunner]

After reading One Second After, it seems to me that Faraday cages aren't going to be very helpful. So your phone, laptop, portable radio, and iPad survive... so what? All you'll hear is silence. What are you going to do with these devices if there is no power and you can't get on the internet? You can't put your car's electronics in a Faraday cage.

If you have a shortwave radio, maybe that would be helpful, provided you have a way to use solar power to charge the batteries.

My thinking after reading One Second After is that all my old bicycles are going to be worth their weight in gold... scratch that, gold will be worthless... worth their weight in salt, ammo, rice, dried beans, etc. I'd bet that my 20 year old Schwinn would be an even trade for a handgun.

I haven't read the book but have been meaning to.

From what I have read in various places online, nobody, even the government, really knows what will happen to electronics in an EMP event. We can speculate but we don't know. It could be anywhere from completely destroying everything to a minor inconvenience like the lights going off for 5 minutes then coming back on. However it's likely to fall somewhere in the middle.

It really depends on what gets destroyed and how. If it's a solar storm, you can kiss everyone's satellites good bye. And we rely on satellites for ALOT of stuff. If it's a land based " high altitude" missle or device detonation, it depends on if it knocks out Comms equipment or satellite controls and what not.

Basically I expect it to destroy everything electronic, and I plan on going back to the manual way of doing everything. Anything that doesn't get destroyed, is just something nice to have. I'm not so sure I would dislike everyone going back to circa 1900 ish time period.

[monkeylizard]

After reading One Second After, it seems to me that Faraday cages aren't going to be very helpful.  So your phone, laptop, portable radio, and iPad survive... so what? All you'll hear is silence. What are you going to do with these devices if there is no power and you can't get on the internet? You can't put your car's electronics in a Faraday cage.

 

If you have a shortwave radio, maybe that would be helpful, provided you have a way to use solar power to charge the batteries.

 

My thinking after reading One Second After is that all my old bicycles are going to be worth their weight in gold... scratch that, gold will be worthless... worth their weight in salt, ammo, rice, dried beans, etc. I'd bet that my 20 year old Schwinn would be an even trade for a handgun. 

 

If that laptop/tablet/smart phone contains a library of useful documents, and you have a small solar or crank charger to keep the batteries going, it could be VERY useful. How many of us would have access to the university library they had in One Second After complete with every issue of Mother Earth News along with various Army field manuals, small engine repair manuals, etc.? But you could get nearly all of that in electronic form and store it on portable devices/flash drives and keep those small items in a Faraday cage. That old nearly worthless iPod or iPhone currently sitting in a junk drawer at home could become priceless. Plus you could have family photos and a music library on there too. Keeping your mental state up is just as important as anything else.Toss in some walkie-talkies/GMRS/portable HAM radios with rechargeable batteries and you have the makings of a community communication center. EOTWAWKI doesn't have to mean 100% pre-industrial living.

[mikegideon]

After reading One Second After, it seems to me that Faraday cages aren't going to be very helpful.  So your phone, laptop, portable radio, and iPad survive... so what? All you'll hear is silence. What are you going to do with these devices if there is no power and you can't get on the internet? You can't put your car's electronics in a Faraday cage.

 

If you have a shortwave radio, maybe that would be helpful, provided you have a way to use solar power to charge the batteries.

 

My thinking after reading One Second After is that all my old bicycles are going to be worth their weight in gold... scratch that, gold will be worthless... worth their weight in salt, ammo, rice, dried beans, etc. I'd bet that my 20 year old Schwinn would be an even trade for a handgun. 

 

There isn't a wireless or broadcast site worth its salt that doesn't have backup power. It ain't gonna be like the movie. There are real concerns, but it won't be instant stone age. There will likely be long term power outages

[monkeylizard]

There isn't a wireless or broadcast site worth its salt that doesn't have backup power. It ain't gonna be like the movie. There are real concerns, but it won't be instant stone age. There will likely be long term power outages

 

Even if the backup power system works, it won't do any good if the electronics they're powering are shot. Is that an unreasonable concern? Wouldn't the actual broadcast equipment be damaged?

[mikegideon]

Even if the backup power system works, it won't do any good if the electronics they're powering are shot. Is that an unreasonable concern? Wouldn't the actual broadcast equipment be damaged?

 

Some damage. Doubtful that it would wipe everything out. There is not enough energy available in a nuclear warhead to wipe out every semiconductor junction in the US. But, I haven't seen the movie. I have just worked with high energy electromagnetic fields and large electronic systems all my life. I have seen plenty of stuff blown up. Had to fix a lot of it myself. Lightning hitting a tower generates one hell of an electromagnetic pulse. I have had direct hits on towers that were 20-30 feet from my gear. You would be surprised what DIDN'T get killed.

Edited May 10, 2016 by mikegideon

[Caster]

Some damage. Doubtful that it would wipe everything out. There is not enough energy available in a nuclear warhead to wipe out every semiconductor junction in the US. But, I haven't seen the movie. I have just worked with high energy electromagnetic fields and large electronic systems all my life. I have seen plenty of stuff blown up. Had to fix a lot of it myself. Lightning hitting a tower generates one hell of an electromagnetic pulse. I have had direct hits on towers that were 20-30 feet from my gear. You would be surprised what DIDN'T get killed.

 

 

 

Don't start mucking up this thread with hard facts and first hand experience.  Truth is completely irrelevant as it pertains to TSHTF and you know this.  How many times we gotta tell you bro?

[No_0ne]

You also wonder about the effectiveness of tin foil hats? :D

 

Of course not.  Tinfoil hats are highly effective, how else would we know who the crazies are ...

 

 

[monkeylizard]

Or for the ladies on church day

 

[Atom Tactical]

Hey Caster looks like I do have a heck of a shovel, it re-sparked this conversation...go look at my first post regarding this topi and then you post following mine...sometime digging up old stuff can be a good thing

[Atom Tactical]

XxthejuicexX

 

not only can you make a hat, I have a whole suite..and I promise you it will beat any thermal night vision scope on the market...I've tested in our night training classes against a $8,000. FLIR Systems RS64 2-16X Thermal Night Vision Rifle scope and my home made $30. suite was undetectable