Homosexuality

[Daniel]

I wasn't indoctrinated with specific prejudices against other groups and as such agree with Len on teh fact that children by default see nothing wrong with people different than themselves. I see this with racism in that my daughter thinks nothing different about Blacks, whites, Asians, Hispanics or any one else as my wife and I have not taught her that there is a difference.

I used to know a lot of gay people male and female as I had a friend that was a dj at the underground and the closet in Knoxville and I would attend on most days of the week. If you aren't familiar the closet is a gay bar/nightclub but i was not the only straight person by far as well as I was involved in the music scene in Knoxville when I was growing up. From frequenting music events and night clubs I met and became friends with lots of people of both sexes and persuasions but never did i feel that I was going to start to become gay even though I was friends with gays. Just as they didn't become straight from hanging out with me. If being gay is a choice. You are essentially saying that you could choose to be gay yourself. Personally I could not have sex with a man. I'm pretty happy I'm not religious for reasons such as this. I don't dislike Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, or any group just based on their religion or personal beliefs being different than mine.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Daniel

[Smith]

Just a couple of thoughts.

1. I know the diplomatic stance is to say everyone and everything is ok as long as it doesn't get "pushed", but i think that is just weak. I believe what I believe because I think it is right/truth. I spend a lot of time trying to make sure I'm right. Why, because that is my responsibility to myself and society. Equivocating on points is just cowardly and ignorant in a definitive. Just a theoretical thought.

2. I do believe that Homosexuality can be "genetic" or "born". However, i don't think that absolves choice. I have a lot of "natural" tendencies, doesn't mean i don't have a choice. Just because i "born" with a nature towards alcoholism doesn't mean I have to be an alcoholic. "I can't help it I was born this way." Just doesn't wash for homosexuals, alcoholics, drug abusers pedophiles, etc. Just my .02

[Mike.357]

Just because i "born" with a nature towards alcoholism doesn't mean I have to be an alcoholic.

if you don't go to the meetings you are not an alcoholic, your a drunk

[Guest Grout]

Spiders to gays to drunks.

[The Rabbi]

Just a couple of thoughts.

1. I know the diplomatic stance is to say everyone and everything is ok as long as it doesn't get "pushed", but i think that is just weak. I believe what I believe because I think it is right/truth. I spend a lot of time trying to make sure I'm right. Why, because that is my responsibility to myself and society. Equivocating on points is just cowardly and ignorant in a definitive. Just a theoretical thought.

2. I do believe that Homosexuality can be "genetic" or "born". However, i don't think that absolves choice. I have a lot of "natural" tendencies, doesn't mean i don't have a choice. Just because i "born" with a nature towards alcoholism doesn't mean I have to be an alcoholic. "I can't help it I was born this way." Just doesn't wash for homosexuals, alcoholics, drug abusers pedophiles, etc. Just my .02

I find myself agreeing with NSNate on this.

Since a lot of people bring up the Bible I want to clarify a Biblical view. There is no word for "homosexual" in Hebrew (modern Hebrew uses the word "homoseksual" btw). There is a word for homosexual acts. And that is what Leviticus condemns, specifically sodomy. So whatever a person's orientation, if he chooses to commit sodomy he is doing something clearly opposed to what the Bible teaches. But the point is that it is a choice. I might find myself attracted to XDShooter's wife. It is natural that I should. But if I go ahead and sleep with her I will be committing a sin (not to mention putting my life on the line). (nb: I have never met the woman).

But there is a "homosexual lifestyle" that many homosexuals choose to engage in. It is corrosive to society in its glorification of hedonism and the way it sees others as simply tools for one's own gratification. The fact that many heterosexuals act like that too is irrelevant. The basic seeds of these ideals sprout into an evil weed that poisons society and makes us weaker. I know that sounds dramatic, but that is what is happening. No society ever became great by adopting those mores, and the great cultures that have fallen did so when hedonism became rampant.

And btw, I am not gay or anything like that. But if I were going to step across the plate I might do it with Mike357....

[Guest Steelharp]

1. I know the diplomatic stance is to say everyone and everything is ok as long as it doesn't get "pushed"

True. However, truth is absolute. 2+2=4 only, not 3,5,6, etc., regardless of how we want to make little whomever feel ok. There is right, and there is wrong. There are conveniently gray areas for those people that don't wish to deal in absolutes. Absolutes make people uncomfortable, forcing them to realize their particular choice is either right or wrong. People don't like that. Sorry. That's how it is.

[Guest eyebedam]

if you don't go to the meetings you are not an alcoholic, your a drunk

Quitters never win and winners never quit.

[Guest Hyaloid]

What two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is their own business.

I don't want anyone or anything sitting in judgment of me, government or church ladies, and I am not going to sit in judgment of others.

It's not my cup o' tea... I prefer coffee, but I could care less if someone else wants to drink tea.

To add a bit of levity, I'll post this from a prominent internet tshirt site (it is extraordinarily offensive, so don't go to it if you cannot stomach it)... if it is too risque, feel free to remove it Super Mods.

[Rightwinger]

I am curious is your God all loving? Why would this guy be judged for the way God made him?

Actually it is very OK, no pretending needed.

Sorry Mike, God made him but he chose through the free will given by God to walk the path he is on. You might say that God made people theives or murderers with that thought process. Nope, we all choose to live the way we do. Its all free will vs free will. There is a a right way and wrong way to every action or thought. That's what he is looking for and why he enjoys us as his children, we have the opportunity to decide for ourselves and that gives him, that omnipotent essence, joy...because he didn't decide it for us, just gave us the path and ability to live it. We suprise him all the time....

[Urse]

Interesting thread, and one I'd normally wade into hip deep in no time. However, since there is some disagreement over whether this should be a joke thread or a serious thread, I won't. I will say three things:

1) The comparison of homosexuality to pedophilia is specious. Two reasons for this: a) pedophilia involves activities involving at least one person not of the age of consent; pedophilia is a psychological disorder while homosexuality is not. The slippery slope argument implied here does not carry much weight.

2) Homosexuality is not a choice similar to the choice of the color of socks I choose to wear today. It is much more innate than that, and significant research suggests there is some genetic influence in determining sexual orientation. "Choice" implies that one could choose otherwise. It is not that simple.

Gun owners tend to cast their arguments in civil rights terms. We tend to love freedom and claim to be willing to defend it against all tyranny. We should be the last people to support, either blatantly or passively, the suppression of of the rights of other groups.

I didn't find the joke funny, but support the telling of it and laughing about it. I will also argue till the day I draw my last breath that the little girl's reaction to the spiders both being "daddy's" is not "natural" at all, but the product of a culture that creates that impression. There's lots of research that shows that little kids are the most tolerant of differences until their parents/other adults teach them to be intolerant.

Thanks Len very well said. I agree 100%. Oh...and thanks for the new sig line.

[TripleDigitRide]

Religion is so judgemental. I'll pass.

[Guest canynracer]

Religion is so judgemental. I'll pass.

[Smith]

Religion is so judgemental. I'll pass.

Hmm, I'm glad your not judgmental!

[Guest Steelharp]

Hmm, I'm glad your not judgmental!

Excellent! Great perception. However, "religion" can, and often is, indeed, judgmental. That's why it's important to realize the differences in the man made institutions of "religion," and Christianity. Who said, "I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

Edited May 21, 2008 by Steelharp

[TripleDigitRide]

Hmm, I'm glad your not judgmental!

I know, right?

It's also hypocritical.

Edited May 21, 2008 by TripleDigitRide

[Guest Mugster]

Butts is fer poopin.

Nuff said.

[Urse]

Butts is fer poopin.

Nuff said.

Damn....I just changed my sig line to Len's comment and then you go and drop this jewel. Decisions...decisions

[TripleDigitRide]

Damn....I just changed my sig line to Len's comment and then you go and drop this jewel. Decisions...decisions

+1

[Guest atomemphis]

Hey guys, hey guys:

Q: What's the hardest part about rollerblading?

A: Telling your parents you're gay.

Wait, is joke time ova?

[Moped]

I could also care less what happens in the privacy of one's bedroom. I also wouldn't take offense if a gay man made a pass at me. I'm not gay and I'd let him know that. Hell, I might even be flattered by it. But it wouldn't bother me. Live and let live as long as it does no harm.

And I too don't believe homosexuality is a choice. Why would some one choose to be stigmatized and shunned by a major part of society? I believe there is a genetic reason for it. Some peoples switch got flipped wrong in the beginning.

Besides in a couple of more generations it will be accepted as a normal part of society. Look at racism a couple of generations ago and where we are at now. It's almost non-existant in my kid's generation. So is homophobia.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Moped
Just wanted to add a bit more.

[Guest Len]

I am flattered.

Thanks Len very well said. I agree 100%. Oh...and thanks for the new sig line.

[Smith]

Excellent! Great perception. However, "religion" can, and often is, indeed, judgmental. That's why it's important to realize the differences in the man made institutions of "religion," and Christianity. Who said, "I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

"Religion" is inherently by it's nature judgmental. That's not a bad thing. It sets standards and doesn't equivocate.The question is what is your basis? Personal interpretation or God's truth? I think to often when folks aren't sure they guess and lock in....usually this is a bad base line. As i often say, most Christians know just enough Bible to be dangerous. And I don't mean that in a good way!

[Guest darkstar]

I think all organized religion is personal interpretation...Who can presume to know the mind of God? Thats a big problem I have with organized religion...Hey I'm certainly not against someone preaching about kindness, love, being a "good" person, but then you get idiots like that Phelps guy out in Kansas with his wretched little protests at soldiers funerals saying crap about how our war dead are God's punishment for a lax attitude towards homosexuality. What kind of unbeliveably arrogant piece of human debris would presume to know what God wants.....he knows 'cause thats what his religion has taught him, and what HE personally believes so he goes out preaching this stuff. Doesn't seem really to hold much to Christian attitudes to me. Thats why I have an issue with organized religion.

Thats my opinion, I'm not saying this to be directed at anyone or anyones beliefs so don't get all offended.

Edited May 21, 2008 by darkstar

[Guest Steelharp]

"Religion" is inherently by it's nature judgmental. That's not a bad thing. It sets standards and doesn't equivocate.

Man made religion sets standards that have nothing to do with the saving power or grace and love of Jesus. As in Mark, 7:

"5": Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

"6": He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

"7": Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

"8": For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

"9": And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Too often importance is given to that which is not.

[NuTcAsE]

I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body.....