Fighting superior forces

[Guest Shep Stoner308]

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Fighting superior forces

Posted by Selco on July 31, 2012 in Survival Psychology | 2 comments

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If you watch video please keep in mind I do not take sides here or any religious believes. This is just example video from 5 days ago fighting in Aleppo, Syria.

When tank comes you just feel small. Really small. When you see on video tank is going through ruined streets you can not feel that strange feeling in your gut, that feeling is mixture of tremendous vibration from that death machine, your adrenaline and fast working brain trying to figure what you gonna do in order to live another day, to not get killed by that machine.

When you see tank destroyed on clip, you can not feel heat, smell burn from ruin and bodies. Whole situation can feel very overwhelming.

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I had few times close encounter with tanks.

Once I spent horrifying 45 minutes while group of some 60 men, with one tank destroying some buildings with it around the place where I was hiding together with one friend. They just searched buildings using the tank as device for leveling already ruined place.

After that small groups of them searched buildings. We were unable to get away, and unable to defend. So only way was to try to hide and hope that beast will not go after us, or guys notice us.

Tank was probably 30 or 40 years old, for sure not some modern thing, it had all kind of painted messages on it, I remember clearly one „you are f#cked now“ on front of it.

When that thing smashed wall some 50 meters from us and started to roll, changing directions all the time, I felt so small and miserable.

We were hiding under the rubble, my friend was starting to yell at me at that moment, I thought that he remembered something smart, but of course I could not hear him a single word, I just gave him sign to stay down and shut up.

Anyway they passed by us, we survived. Later I asked him what he wanted at that moment and what he yelled. He said that he sang some song. He is not sure why, but I guess he was just scared to death, and it was unintentionally. People do weird things in situations like this. Some laugh, some cry and some sing.

What can we learn from this? I think one of biggest lessons I learned in my life about survival.

Prepare to be overwhelmed.

Lots of people get into survival and preparedness to feel more secure, more prepared of course. Thing is that survival is often fighting superior forces. Probably not a tank but nature can unleash powers that make you feel small and like playball of elements too.

When you see so much power and how random life gets taken, you realize that your life is not special too. It is easy to forget about this but in nature creatures live and die all the time. Nature is cruel and we are still part of this. Becoming more easy with death and dying makes you more relaxed fighter in survival situation too, but more on that in another post.

Anyway, back to tanks. I saw people get killed trying to destroy tank with RPG but not knowing that you need some space behind RPG when you fire it. That happens when civilians pick up weapons they do not know. Others got killed because tank came too close to their hideout and they tried running away in panic.

So how to fight tanks?

Most of the time you could see group of fighters with one armored vehicle going trough part of the town, sweeping it an using the tank as a cover, and smashing device for hard to enter places.

Smartest thing was to stay low and let them pass and hope they did not notice you. And then to run or attack, when they already go with that thing inside the ruins. Not too much space for maneuvering so that gives you you some time to destroy it.

What I learned from that is simple survival knowledge. When you face superior forces, no matter if tanks or storm or other challenge. Stop and think (hardest part because instinct tells you to RUN or react in some automatic way!) – understand that thing and its power – understand its weakness – take advantage of its weakness to get away, overcome or destroy it.

Control your first response to threats and chances of survival increase (that does not mean your first response is always a bad one, just that you should make smart decision and not just do first thing you feel like doing).

Very simple but while you can learn so many things about survival, some very simple things like this can make difference between life and death.

From the SHTF SCHOOL site: http://shtfschool.com/survival-psychology/fighting-superior-forces/

FYI -- SHEP.

[Caster]

Superior fighting force is also hard to define. Certainly by all rights American troops are far superior to anything afghanistan has ever or will ever see. Yet a decade later, we're still there. You cannot defeat a mindset. Also, all the technology in the world will not completely defeat plain clothes and shoot and scoot tactics.

[Jonnin]

I think I would have left town when the tanks or planes or coptors come to play. I certainly am not going to jump on it and go for a ride... that is one brave, or desperate, soldier.

[TMF]

I think I would have left town when the tanks or planes or coptors come to play. I certainly am not going to jump on it and go for a ride... that is one brave, or desperate, soldier.

That wasn't the opposition on the tank. That was a regular Syrian Army tanker who was up in the cupola trying to get the f**k outa dodge after getting firebombed around the corner.

And Caster, you're right about A-stan. The only difference is that the tactics of the US are nowhere near the total warfare that Assad is carrying out. However, the results are similar. Funny huh? Goes back to what I always say about insurgencies relying on the people, not the number of fighters you have. Our troops are the best in the world in regard to closing with and destroying the enemy, and they are also the best at integrating technology into the fight. That isn't the problem. The problem is that Afghanis are cavemen and simply don't care enough to do the hard things it takes to build a country that rejects oppression. They don't like the Taliban, but when the Taliban comes to their village they roll over and show their belly. They know that the US is gonna leave eventually and they're gonna be stuck with a loose affiliation of warlords that will change their loyalties based off what they can get or what they stand to lose. It ain't because Hadj is a super-soldier. Hadj is a sheep-raping inbred. For some reason folks thought we could somehow change that.

I think that Assad's regime is doomed. He should have made concessions a long time ago. Now he is left with few options. If he tries to flee the country no one will give him quarter except for maybe Iran. Even the Shia gov in Iraq ain't gonna want him there. So he has few options for exile that won't leave him being tried by the UN. There is already a precedent set for that and Assad knows it. It is too late for him to broker a deal with the opposition. He has done too much to the civilian population. Any ceding of power he does now will probably end with him being ripped apart in the streets. It's a shame because I'm not so sure we want to see Assad fail. He was a pretty innocuous leader despite his anti-Western babble, but at least he kept it to himself mostly. If the opposition takes over I think we'll see an Islamic fundamentalist government form like the one in Egypt, especially since al Qaeda affiliated groups have flocked to this fight and are embedding themselves into the FSA. This will be bad for the region in a lot of ways once the dust settles.

[Caster]

I think a war here would be even worse. Granted we may not have open markets where one can buy an RPG, but the availability of materials, the number of machine shops from full scale to hobbyist and the technological knowhow that exists in the states is staggering. If there's another civil war in this country I personally believe it will make the Balkan conflicts look like a schoolyard fight. Remember, there's a lot of sick people here in the states that have never been diagnosed or do well to keep it under control. If turned loose in the heat of civil unrest....nasty. All the technological superiority the feds have wouldn't stand a chance unless they started incinerating entire areas from the sky.

[TMF]

I think a war here would be even worse. Granted we may not have open markets where one can buy an RPG, but the availability of materials, the number of machine shops from full scale to hobbyist and the technological knowhow that exists in the states is staggering. If there's another civil war in this country I personally believe it will make the Balkan conflicts look like a schoolyard fight. Remember, there's a lot of sick people here in the states that have never been diagnosed or do well to keep it under control. If turned loose in the heat of civil unrest....nasty. All the technological superiority the feds have wouldn't stand a chance unless they started incinerating entire areas from the sky.

That's one of the reasons why I love the way our country is set up. Even though we don't have access to heavy weaponry, our military could never stand up to it's citizens on a large scale. If our military attempted to pull the same crap that Assad is pulling right now it wouldn't be possible, and that is assuming that the entire military would be complicit in such an event, which we know it wouldn't. It really does keep the government honest to a certain degree. I don't think this is something to worry about now, but if we disarmed ourselves as a society tomorrow it leaves the door open for something to happen later on down the road.

But if you look at the Syrian uprising and how it came to be, the civilians didn't have access to the mass store of weaponry and ammo that American citizens have. This started out as protesters being gunned down in the streets, which led to small defections of troops and weapons. The domino effect created what they have today which is a pretty well armed militia. What it shows is that no matter what, governments are still accountable to their people. Lucky for us (for now) if something like that happened we wouldn't have to wait for mass defections. We could go at any time... goes back to the theory of keeping the gov honest.

[Caster]

Yep, because most rednecks like me have no idea how far some people in this country are capable of going. We may not have access to Russian surplus tanks or stinger missiles but I bet you a dollar there's a couple of students from MIT that, if properly coerced with food, protection and unlimited boob access, could build you reasonably functional low yield tactical nuke that'd level any major city.

On that note, WTSHTF, be nice to the dorks and nerds. Find out what they know before you turn them away. It might be worth feeding a physicist in the long run.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Caster

[TMF]

Yep, because most rednecks like me have no idea how far some people in this country are capable of going. We may not have access to Russian surplus tanks or stinger missiles

Plus the government would need willing participants to drive those tanks, fly those birds and lead those troops. Considering our Servicemembers come from every corner of the country you're gonna have a hard time finding at 100% loyal force, or even a 30% loyal force. Plus the POTUS would have to fire every General Officer and appoint civilian leadership to buffer between himself and the Military leaders.... just about every ring knocker that sits in those high seats at the Pentagon or the JCS would put a bullet in the head of any President/Dictator that would pull something like that. We gotta lot of checks and balances compared to those places that use their armies against their people.

[Guest Shep Stoner308]

That wasn't the opposition on the tank. That was a regular Syrian Army tanker who was up in the cupola trying to get the f**k outa dodge after getting firebombed around the corner.

And Caster, you're right about A-stan. The only difference is that the tactics of the US are nowhere near the total warfare that Assad is carrying out. However, the results are similar. Funny huh? Goes back to what I always say about insurgencies relying on the people, not the number of fighters you have. Our troops are the best in the world in regard to closing with and destroying the enemy, and they are also the best at integrating technology into the fight. That isn't the problem. The problem is that Afghanis are cavemen and simply don't care enough to do the hard things it takes to build a country that rejects oppression. They don't like the Taliban, but when the Taliban comes to their village they roll over and show their belly. They know that the US is gonna leave eventually and they're gonna be stuck with a loose affiliation of warlords that will change their loyalties based off what they can get or what they stand to lose. It ain't because Hadj is a super-soldier. Hadj is a sheep-raping inbred. For some reason folks thought we could somehow change that.

I think that Assad's regime is doomed. He should have made concessions a long time ago. Now he is left with few options. If he tries to flee the country no one will give him quarter except for maybe Iran. Even the Shia gov in Iraq ain't gonna want him there. So he has few options for exile that won't leave him being tried by the UN. There is already a precedent set for that and Assad knows it. It is too late for him to broker a deal with the opposition. He has done too much to the civilian population. Any ceding of power he does now will probably end with him being ripped apart in the streets. It's a shame because I'm not so sure we want to see Assad fail. He was a pretty innocuous leader despite his anti-Western babble, but at least he kept it to himself mostly. If the opposition takes over I think we'll see an Islamic fundamentalist government form like the one in Egypt, especially since al Qaeda affiliated groups have flocked to this fight and are embedding themselves into the FSA. This will be bad for the region in a lot of ways once the dust settles.

EXCELLENT BREAKDOWN TMF +1

Yep, because most rednecks like me have no idea how far some people in this country are capable of going. We may not have access to Russian surplus tanks or stinger missiles but I bet you a dollar there's a couple of students from MIT that, if properly coerced with food, protection and unlimited boob access, could build you reasonably functional low yield tactical nuke that'd level any major city.

On that note, WTSHTF, be nice to the dorks and nerds. Find out what they know before you turn them away. It might be worth feeding a physicist in the long run.

ALL wars have been fought over Boobs Caster !!

Edited July 31, 2012 by Shep Stoner308

[Jonnin]

Any fool can make a nuke if he has the materials (this is where it gets difficult!). Delivery systems (missiles!) for the military hold some back (did you know some countries still cannot manage a real missile?) but a van does pretty well in a civil war. Then you gotta handle the materials without getting radiated. Then you gotta get outta there before it blows. And not screw up building it and level yourself and all your allies. Very dangerous, but if desperate enough, .... boom.

Lots of other things we can do as a hobby too. Heck the meth labs make both a pretty good weapon and a pretty good bomb, at the same time...

Edited July 31, 2012 by Jonnin

[TMF]

ALL wars have been fought over Boobs Caster !!

Fix it!

First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women.

[Guest Shep Stoner308]

Fix it!

First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women, then your mind turns to mush!

Indeed TMF !

[Makiaveli]

Any fool can make a nuke if he has the materials (this is where it gets difficult!). Delivery systems (missiles!) for the military hold some back (did you know some countries still cannot manage a real missile?) but a van does pretty well in a civil war. Then you gotta handle the materials without getting radiated. Then you gotta get outta there before it blows. And not screw up building it and level yourself and all your allies. Very dangerous, but if desperate enough, .... boom.

Lots of other things we can do as a hobby too. Heck the meth labs make both a pretty good weapon and a pretty good bomb, at the same time...

I disagree with this. To actually get a nuke to go off requires tolerances way beyond the norm. Unless of course that is government propaganda, but I think homemade nukes are Hollywood nonsense.

[Caster]

I'll agree that most everything in hollywood is BS but like I said, you take a couple MIT grads and a tool and die shop with decent equipment and you can build just about anything.

As far as fissionable materials go, that's very hard to get. It's not a like a stranger can just walk in to a place like Oak Ridge.....oh wait.

[gjohnsoniv]

As far as fissionable materials go, that's very hard to get. It's not a like a stranger can just walk in to a place like Oak Ridge.....oh wait.

LOL

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Not that I know anything about it, but plutonium bomb or h-bomb, tricky indeed. Low-yield U-235 bomb, easy. Access to that much U-235, tricky again.

[Guest Wildogre]

From what I recall there are two basic types of fission devices one is fairly easy to make the other not so much and that is about all I will say on that subject.

[Caster]

Not that I know anything about it, but plutonium bomb or h-bomb, tricky indeed. Low-yield U-235 bomb, easy. Access to that much U-235, tricky again.

There's a world of difference in the H-bomb. The Hydrogen bomb is a fusion reaction set off by a fission bomb. You'd have to build a high quality atom bomb to be able to get started on the H-bomb. You're talking megaton yield not kiloton.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Caster

[TMF]

Here is an example regarding what I was talking about earlier in regard to the civilian populatiion being complicit, but not directly involved. I this example you see the civilians carrying on with their normal activities; kids riding on bikes and the man sweeping his driveway. Seconds before the fighter steps out with an RPG everyone scats. That kind of access the rebels have to blend in and out of the population so easily is contigent upon the people supporting their action. In Iraq, once many insurgent groups lost popularity they weren't able to do stuff like this, and the locals were the first ones to report IED activity and ambushes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLR5GoU7tjk&feature=related

[Guest Shep Stoner308]

Here is an example regarding what I was talking about earlier in regard to the civilian populatiion being complicit, but not directly involved. I this example you see the civilians carrying on with their normal activities; kids riding on bikes and the man sweeping his driveway. Seconds before the fighter steps out with an RPG everyone scats. That kind of access the rebels have to blend in and out of the population so easily is contigent upon the people supporting their action. In Iraq, once many insurgent groups lost popularity they weren't able to do stuff like this, and the locals were the first ones to report IED activity and ambushes.

I wonder what the aftermath of this attack was? It would have been interesting to see the response from the crew (if present) and the reaction of the citizens during this time. Operator of RPG has experience or training in use of weapon, that is obvious to me with his ability to site it and hit tracks on vehicle. Good Post TMF, no +1 though, as you already have over 300, I do not wish to be a party to your head exploding. Hehe.

[TMF]

Operator of RPG has experience or training in use of weapon, that is obvious to me with his ability to site it and hit tracks on vehicle. Good Post TMF, no +1 though, as you already have over 300, I do not wish to be a party to your head exploding. Hehe.

Haha, no worries. As to the training of the rebel, many of these fighters are defectors from the regular army, so they have likely had some sort of training. Add to that, many of these guys have now had a year of practical application of these devices. I've fired a lot of RPGs in my day, and while the controls are simple to use, the skill of ranging a target and selecting the proper range on the sight is not something that is immediately picked up by a novice. Judging by the flight time and arc of the rocket that armored vehicle is probably 200m away, although on the video it looks closer. That isn't a hard target for someone with experience, but would be challenging for a first timer. It was a solid hit, and while it probably didn't destroy the vehicle, it is likely immobile due to damage to the tracks. I've seen videos of a lot of tank hits in since January, and they aren't doing any damage hitting the turret. It appears the tactic is immobilizing the tank and then lighting a fire on the inside so that secondaries blow it up. I even saw a video the other day with Syrian tanks and what appears to be reactive protection on the top side of the tracks. It's interesting to watch this go down and learn.

Oh, and the crew was likely on the other side of the armored vehicle having a siesta. The guy sweeping the driveway was checking to see if there was anyone pulling security. You'll see him turn and give a nod towards the right (off screen fighter), indicating that there was no one on security. It may surprise you that folks would let security fall in the middle of a warzone, but Arab soldiers are the laziest sons of bitches on the planet.

[Guest Shep Stoner308]

Just like the German panzerfaust, the mother of all the RPG's I would say, the intent of the weapon is to disable and not destroy, especially when targeting hard targets. Sure beats the hell out of a sticky bomb!