Private McDonalds: A Call to the Manager

[Paladin132]

So I went home this weekend to do some things before coming back into TN for work on Monday. Along the way I stopped in KY for a latrine break and a milkshake. (Give me a break, I was tired and wanted empty calories)

So as my lady approaches the door I spot the sign and sigh, saying "Stop" and turn back to the car. It took her a moment but when we get in the car I tell her what I saw: a gunbuster sign saying concealed weapons are not allowed on the premises or something very similar. So I pulled out and called the store where a nice lady answered the phone.

I asked if she was the manager, she said yes, and I asked if it was a corporate or a privately owned store and she said private. I told her that well I would like very much for her to let her owner know that I was refused service at her store. She sounded very concerned when she asked where, when, why and was I still there. I told her know, I have drove away to take my business elsewhere and that it had just happened because of the sign on her door that prohibits me from entering with a legally concealed weapon. I went on to briefly inform her that I was a veteran of multiple tours overseas, and that I have decided to carry a weapon for my personal defense and that I was disappointed in their business for being posted which I respected, and would take my business elsewhere.

She had her GM there and asked me to repeat it to her, which I did. The GM was another very nice lady and she listened and then said that she would like to keep my contact information because she would speak to her owner about it and he may want to contact me. I said that was fine and thanked her for passing along my concerns. She said she was sorry that I was disappointed with their store and we ended the call.

I heard Mossad Ayoob say that he handled gun signs this way and I have thought about it for awhile. I feel that we as gun owners and lawful citizens that carry have a responsibility to ourselves, our children, our founders, and our country to express ourselves in a respectful way that allows folks to know that this is an issue, and that we take our business away when we are forced to. I think that many folks enjoy a false sense of security with the sign, thinking that a madman or robber will do what I did and leave upon seeing the sign. I also think that many just do not fully consider the issue before posting the sign (it looked very new and I wondered as I was leaving if it was posted after the tragedy in Colorado). My dad has handed out cards explaining why he was leaving, but to me that makes me flirt with the law to much. I am going to immediately depart upon knowing the owner's wises because that is their right as well.

I have not heard anything (that was on a Sunday and it is now Monday morning) and am not sure I expect to. I do however hope that it will give the owner pause to consider the issue.

[Guest bkelm18]

Are gunbusters legally binding in KY?

[hipower]

I applaude you, sir. That was very nicely done. More of us should follow you example.

And "Thank You" for your service to our nation.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

You know you can open carry in KY without permit, just saying. Oh, wait. You can't do that, the sheeple will call the police when they spot you.

Good decision to take you money else where anyways.

[daddyo]

Yep, I agree. Very tactfully done.

Bravo.

[wcsc12]

Are gunbusters legally binding in KY?

I can't remember off the top of my head but I do know that it's legally binding in either KY or OH and not in the other. I wanna say in KY it's not legally binding but it is in OH.

Edit:

Yeah, it's not legally binding in KY. I remember now because I saw something funny in OH. The Police Stations and Fire Departments had to be posted. So they took some freaking poster board and hung it in the main entrance windows. It had a giant gunbuster sign on it along with actual proper verbiage. It was actually the greatest thing I've seen. If you miss that and walk inside, you really deserve that misdemeanor.

Do “No Gun Signs†Have the Force of Law?

“NOâ€

237.110

“Handgunlaw.us highly recommends that you not enter a place that is posted "No Firearms" no matter what the state laws read/mean on signage. We recommend you print out the No Guns = No Money Cards and give one to the owner of the establishment that has the signage." As responsible gun owners and upholders of the 2nd Amendment we should also honor the rights of property owners to control their own property even if we disagree with them.â€

“No Firearm†signs in Kentucky have no force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically mentioned in State Law as being off limits to those with a Permit/License to Carry. If you are in a place not specifically mentioned in the law that is posted and they ask you to leave, you must leave. If you refuse to leave then you are breaking the law and can be charged. Even if the property is not posted and you are asked to leave you must leave. Always be aware of the possibility that responding Police Officers who may have been called without your knowledge and may not know the laws on trespass etc. could arrest you even if you are within the law.

Edited July 30, 2012 by wcsc12

[JayC]

Which store? I'd make a few suggestions....

First, if you tell us what store, we can find you the owners info and see what other stores he owns, so it can be published which stores to stay away from (also there might be stores owned by this operator in TN as well.)

Second, I would call the 800 complaint line at McDonald's corporate that will require the operator or his staff to contact you.

[Jamie Jackson]

Well done Paladin.

Professionalism and courtesy go a long way. And it impacts the business at a point they can comprehend... the cash register...while denying them the misplaced moral high ground.

Congrats on you actions Sir.

[Makiaveli]

You know you can open carry in KY without permit, just saying. Oh, wait. You can't do that, the sheeple will call the police when they spot you.

Good decision to take you money else where anyways.

Isn't that only for residents? At least that is the way it was when I was there. Not born (Army brat) but raised there.

**edit** Doh! Got sidetracked. Meant to say way to go Paladin!! Got the word out to at least 2 people who now know for a fact that not all "gun people" are the crazy people that get interviewed by the media at NRA shows.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Makiaveli

[Paladin132]

Makeaveli: I know just what you mean sir, I hope that it did leave a good feeling with those two folks that we are normal people like they are.

JayC: I have considered that and just do not have the time today, although tomorrow I may do just that.

To all: Thanks, just want to encourage others to become informed and be good ambassadors while honoring our responsabilities to the law. The resturaunt was on the bypass around Lexington in Winchester. As far as the issue of being able to carry / being legally binding I know many places I am in that it is legally binding so I treat them all that way for my respect for the law, and for the respect for the wishes of the owner.

[Oh Shoot]

Isn't that only for residents? At least that is the way it was when I was there. Not born (Army brat) but raised there. ..

(re OC in KY)

Never even heard that claim. AFAIK, the only "resident only" carry law is the new one in WY, where residents only may conceal carry without a permit. Certainly no mention of it at opencarry.org, which is pretty thorough, and give KY their "gold star" rating.

- OS

[Makiaveli]

(re OC in KY)

Never even heard that claim. AFAIK, the only "resident only" carry law is the new one in WY, where residents only may conceal carry without a permit. Certainly no mention of it at opencarry.org, which is pretty thorough, and give KY their "gold star" rating.

- OS

To clarify, I was referring to OCing without a permit is a resident only thing. So if you are a resident, you need a permit to CC. Non-residents need a permit period.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Makiaveli

[Garufa]

So has the validity of the gunbuster sign in Kentucky been established or refuted? I see an unreferenced posting that says it holds no weight.

[Oh Shoot]

To clarify, I was referring to OCing without a permit is a resident only thing.

I understood your comment. I think you're mistaken, and was citing the single "resident only" carry law I know of in the US.

It is my understanding that one may open carry in any state that allows it, resident or not, as long as you meet the age requirements of that state for doing it. Many of which are under 21. Indeed, KY is 18. Some states are under 18.

- OS

Edited July 31, 2012 by OhShoot

[Oh Shoot]

So has the validity of the gunbuster sign in Kentucky been established or refuted? I see an unreferenced posting that says it holds no weight.

That was from handgunlaw.us. AFAIK there is no criminal charge for carrying past a sign in KY as in TN. Only about 3 other states have that at all. Most come down to the "asked to leave/trespassing" thang. A couple, like Texas, have a separate charge for carrying into a bar, where they are required to post.

- OS

Edited July 31, 2012 by OhShoot

[Makiaveli]

I understood your comment. I think you're mistaken, and was citing the single "resident only" carry law I know of in the US.

It is my understanding that one may open carry in any state that allows it, resident or not, as long as you meet the age requirements of that state for doing it. Many of which are under 21. Indeed, KY is 18. Some states are under 18.

- OS

I could be mistaken, but grew up there when Dad wasn't stationed overseas. The prevailing opinion back in the day before CC permits were available to the public (ie not counting "special deputy" etc badges) was that residents could carry etc. I will try to remember to ask my Dad to check with some of his buddies and find out what local LE say.

[Oh Shoot]

I could be mistaken, but grew up there when Dad wasn't stationed overseas. The prevailing opinion back in the day before CC permits were available to the public (ie not counting "special deputy" etc badges) was that residents could carry etc. I will try to remember to ask my Dad to check with some of his buddies and find out what local LE say.

You might can get too "local" there. At least ask a state trooper. But you'd have to show me the KY statute that denies out of state people that right before I'd believe it. I'm pretty certain you'll only find prohibitions against concealed carry without a permit. And no prohibitions regarding non-residents in the past either.

From:

http://www.kentuckys...org/conceal.htm

"Where can I openly carry a firearm?

There are no Kentucky Revised Statutes that govern the open carry of firearms by persons who lawfully possess such firearms except for the following:

• 527.070 - Unlawful possession (whether carried openly or concealed) of a weapon on school property, except for certain specified exceptions.
  
• KRS 244.125 - Which bars loaded firearms (concealed or otherwise) in places where alcohol is sold by the drink, except for certain specified exceptions.
  

If you have any questions on the open carry of firearms in the Commonwealth of Kentucky, including whether a particular mode of carrying a firearm would be deemed open or concealed carry, you may wish to consult an attorney."

- OS

Edited August 1, 2012 by OhShoot

[East_TN_Patriot]

Well done, my friend. I've made similar calls and emails, but didn't phrase them quite the way you did. Not sure if they ever made any difference, but I still keep doing it.

[JayC]

(re OC in KY)

Never even heard that claim. AFAIK, the only "resident only" carry law is the new one in WY, where residents only may conceal carry without a permit. Certainly no mention of it at opencarry.org, which is pretty thorough, and give KY their "gold star" rating.

- OS

That would be an unconstitutional law, states must offer all privileges to all citizens of the united states.

Article 4 of the US Constitution:

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

Basically even if the law says it's legal for a resident to do without a license or permit, it's legal for all US Citizens in that state. Otherwise states could pass laws saying you can't own property unless you're a resident. There is a ton of case law on this clause

Edited August 1, 2012 by JayC

[Oh Shoot]

That would be an unconstitutional law, states must offer all privileges to all citizens of the united states....

That's quite the stretch. So charging higher out of state tuition is unconstitutional? Registering only cars for TN residents? TennCare only for TN residents? Letting folks in other states run for office? Residency has privileges and onuses in every state.

- OS

Edited August 1, 2012 by OhShoot

[Paladin132]

Differences between rights and privileges there I think.

[Guest vca2004]

Very well done! Excellently handled!

[hornett22]

I call when I see those signs. I called Markman's Jewelers here in Knoxville and informed them that I came to there store with the intension of spending around 5k on an engagement ring but there sign prevented me from entering and I wasn't carrying that kind of money unarmed. They didn't seem to care so I guess I'm a small fish in their eyes.

They actually did me a favor though. I found a MUCH better deal elsewhere.

[A.J. Holst]

A quick call to the manager on duty to advise I have been refused service and I was FORCED to take my business elsewhere.

That is the best idea I have heard in years.

[DaveS]

I have to ask...do ya'll drive around town with phone numbers to all the businesses, or do you know some cell phone app I've never heard of? Ya'll all about "calling" businesses. You're having better luck than me!

Dave S.

Sent from my sending apparatus